“Why do people hate the double boxes so much?” — Weege on the latest Fly Racing Racer X Review Show.
AKA: Why do fans get so irritated by the PIP/split-screen segments?
Because the problem isn’t necessarily showing two battles at once, it’s the absurdly inefficient way the screen is formatted to do so.
As shown in the screenshot below, each viewable race feed occupies roughly 21.3% of the entire screen, with both race feeds combining for only 42.7% of the screen being utilized.
So that leaves 57.3% of the screen being used for the sidebar, labels, borders, sponsor space and background.
In a format supposedly intended to show us more racing, less than half the screen is actually showing racing.
On an 80-inch TV each feed has roughly the same viewing area as a 37-inch 16:9 television, and viewers are likely still watching it from the same distance back they would otherwise with an 80-inch screen. With a 1080p broadcast, each race feed is roughly 1,065 × 415 pixels, and ends up being a ~480p class image with less than half the pixels of 720p. A 4K television can enlarge it, but it can't restore detail that was never there.
Now put distant drone footage inside one of those already-small boxes... whether from the FPV drone or the overhead follow drone 20-200 feet above the track, and the bikes/riders become mostly indiscernible.
Best case, the viewer happened to see the bigger feed prior to it shrinking to a postage stamp sized viewport, and they have the experienced eye to distinguish nuanced differences in riding technique. But what is more likely, and as would certainly be the case for the desired holy grail "New Viewer", is they are lost and have no idea what they're watching.
That’s why people are frustrated. We’re not being given two useful views. We’re being given two significantly compromised views surrounded by a television sized dashboard.
NBC/Peacock just needs to try something different. Maybe a full-width 50/50 split, or a 70/30 main-feed-and-inset layout... and temporarily minimize the leaderboard and oversized labels... or literally anything else that just has less wasted space.
Shrinking two "important" battles into 21% sized boxes is not better coverage. The race footage should be the product ...not the background element.
Good assessment. Unfortunately, lost on smooth brain bondo.
Exactly.
I was so surprised by how Weege just couldn't seem to understand what the issue is when it's been discussed at length time and time again across multiple platforms.
But I feel like the sentiment some of these guys show sometimes toward fans online (on Vital, social media, etc) can be so dismissive... it's like they're writing off the biggest, most tuned-in focus group they could ask for, that's literally at their fingertips, all because of the 10% of trolls and assholes that just talk shit. But that's not exclusive to moto, that's for any niche hobby or sport, that's just how the internet works.
Anyway, the split screens suck. On a 65 inch 4K TV, I can't make out the rider's numbers in either box. There is room for improvement with the split screen, without a doubt.
They're bought and paid for and don't want to upset anyone... Or, they truly think motocross fans are morons who don't know what they're talking about. Maybe a little of both.
Either way, they just want to keep the status quo. If anyone really cared Bondo would have been fired years ago.
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He’s a company yes man.
And smooth brain Weege. Between Weeges “tthe broadcast can’t get any better” and JTs “it’s harder than it looks” you’re never going to get an improvement in the broadcast when the major players can’t admit the current product has room for improvement. Goal should be continuous pursuit of perfection, not it’s a good product, we’re good bro
I don't get the crap the ladies go on with.
What they had for breakfast and talked to the mechanic etc, it’s just filler crap.
It’s an action sport and deserves proper commentary.
JT and JS7 input is awesome plus I like Weege.
The rest can do without, rider interview in the middle of a moto while the lead changes or Jett / Deegan crash.
Im sick of muting this crap!
NBC likes it as it is so…… this conversation is over. 🤷🏼♂️
I'm glad you did the math. I've yelled at the TV on multiple occasions because of this very issue.
Should we talk about commercial breaks when there's a top 3 banner covering up 1/3 of the screen?
I could handle the split screen with a 50/50 split. No results or blank background when going for the split. In its current display It is like my big screen has turned into a 18” computer monitor 12’ away
They’re never giving up their sponsored leaderboard, so forget that.
Weege's default has always been to call the fans stupid or dumb. He always assumes were too dumb to understand how difficult it actually is, "you fans couldn't possibly understand how difficult TV production is! We're doing the absolute best"
You can see the condescending tone in his Weege show vids and his tweet below where he comments on the topic of split screens
Yes men in moto (in order of slurping and gargling):
There are others but I shall hold my tongue...
The top industry people constantly look down on regular fans and it's one of those things that has annoyed me for a long, long time. Sure, many moto fans are uneducated buffoons. And there are loud minority trolls that are a pain in the ass online. But many are people with actual real life success and many are highly educated.
The Racer X guys are the worst bunch regarding this topic.
I have obviously no actual proof of this but my gut feeling is that a larger % of the fan base has proper degrees and careers compared to the industry insiders. There aren't many industry insiders/media people with MSc. degrees, that is for sure.
Yes, the majority of them attended this school (see below) and yet shit on the fans all the time. What is most galling is that they scoff at some of the speculation the fans are forced to entertain, forgetting this is because they - the moto 'media' - won't actually report on anything and like to hold on to their insider information.
Yes, but the larger problem is not the dimensions of the split screen boxes - it's the use of the splitscreen altogether. I would suggest 80 per cent of the time it is used inappropriately. In other sports it is only used when some very important development is happening elsewhere - like a driver needing to get to a certain position to wrap up a championship. In the moto broadcast it is used to show some pointless unimportant battle for 10th place. Meanwhile the battle for 1st has been scrunched into the other screen. Bush. League.
As JT$ says, there is so much you simply dont know.
Split screen works as it does so the aspect ratio of each feed is retained, thats really easy (relatively) to do, the height is what it is , and that sets the width as well. The rest is what it is, the timing tower stays the same.
This is live, on the fly broadcasting, the big problem is that they have to shoehorn other stuff in , when it isnt needed. We missed a pass for the lead because we were listening to Barcia, when Weege and JS7 should have been going crazy . The background stuff should never be done 'in race'.
Some of you never watched on a 24in TV and it shows.
Life hack, buy a smaller TV and just sit closer.
I understand aspect ratios and the inability to fill the space. Fine. Rather than proceeding with a solution that wastes space, and is not really ideal, limit it to very specific situations. Only when two important things are happening on track should it be used. Otherwise, pick the most relevant action and stick with it. That’s all I’m suggesting.
Not crazy upset about anything here. And no, it’s not that important. Just a preference.
Pit Row
We all understand the constraints, we're trying to work toward solutions, because we shouldn't settle for something that sucks.
For example, here's a better option, go picture-in-picture. It's rare that the shots in both boxes hold the same level of importance. Show the less important battle in the PIP. You keep the aspect ratios, utilize the entire screen, and only lose the footage on the main feed behind the PIP.
They clearly have done zero research on "Picture in Picture" options. I basically zone out whenever they cut to the battlebox because of the extreme vertical cropping and drop to ~480p resolution per box. Low hanging fruit... move the "Battle for Lead" text to the side. You're cropping even more an already cropped to shit image. And don't use a drone shot in one of the boxes... literally ants on a 70" tv at that point.
I much prefer how they've been showing replays, with both feeds in the correct aspect ratio, with one much larger than the other, actually filling ~80% of the screen.
Also, do we need to know the gap between riders to millisecond (0.001)? They could narrow that leaderboard up quite a bit with abbreviated rider names, not taking up a space for brand color (maybe integrate that better), and less precision on the gaps.
I honestly think these guys are jaded because they're at the races and it's just their jobs.
A small PIP screen in bottom right corner if something important happens.
Overlay the small PIP. Not a screen with borders etc.
Use the small PIP screen for interviews but KEEP the main race on the big screen at all times.
So to recap, only use the small right hand corner PIP screen for anything besides the main race screen.
Just try it once. 🙄
NBC and the powers at will need to up the resolution of the broadcast, with the broadcast being at 1080p, and with the live stream compression, it looks like shit. Look at the world cup games and other sports being broadcasted in 4k they look pretty damn good. But i guess our sport will never have the money for it
I don’t think they have the capability to double box without one of them being a drone shot. Not enough cameras to follow two different battles around the track.
How'd you come up with that? Each section of track has cameras. As long as there isn't a battle for 3rd 3-4 seconds behind a battle for the lead, it should be fine.
100% agree. Why NOT just remove the MX-ATV Leaderboard for the 15 seconds, then SPLIT the screen and show TWO much larger shots? Seems simple.
By the way, I also yelled at the TV when Prado continued to follow lappers....... while getting caught.
Weege or someone has mentioned it before. It does make some sense. Camera covers riders for anywhere from 8-20 seconds (estimating). So anything happening within 8-20 seconds of those riders is going to be impossible to cover. Then you’ve got to get all the camera operators on the same page and all finding the correct riders. I don’t think it’s as easy it sounds.
That said there are plenty of issues with the broadcast. Weege is a simpleton who hates the fans of the sport and thinks we are all idiots, which is ironic cause he can’t even remove an axle or change oil . JS is fine, Bondo sucks.
Weigandt is 100% the Minister of Propaganda for The Morgantown Mafia. He is reading the script Wavey Davey gives him. The way the media side of this sport is completely locked down is so pathetic, and probably borderline illegal.
I don’t understand why they don’t keep the main screen full size and have small second battle box in the right corner, literally every other sport does it this way.
Also with the filler they get the ladies in for, wow so boring. People tune in to sports for stories and drama, like it or not, we know the stories and the drama because we’re balls deep but you want to hook the casual fan. Bring up current drama like the factory Kawi team facing backlash from ex pros, this recent finneas chase stuff. Anything and everything to build a story and a reason to like or hate someone besides “Levi kitchen ‘the chef’ told me he regularly eats Oreo’s on race day and he isn’t actually that good at cooking!
Have to disagree with that last statement. We all haven’t worked our butts off to afford the best tv we can to settle for watching this broadcast on an iPad for clarity.
This issue is magnified because really this split screen nonsense is just that. Nonsense most of the time.
I’d imagine at this point we don’t actually except a great deal do we ?
If your 10 year old kid put together a little IG video with his buddies of them bashing about on their BMX bikes you wouldn’t expect Hollywood polish would you ?
This is what we’re dealing with in general in MX/SX.
Every single aspect of the sport is, at best, middle school kid level amateurism.
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