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Yes!
Many people think that Kawasaki made the chassis on the 250F and Suzuki made the engine. Which is incorrect. All they did was put their own badges on the other manufacturers bikes.
KX65 > RM65
KLX110 > DRZ110
KX100 > RM100
KX250F > RMZ250
DRZ125 > KLX125
DRZ400 > KLX400
V-Strom 1000 > KLV1000
LTZ90> KFX90 (manufactured by Kymco)
I can’t think of any others. I’m sure there were some though
I thought so too but this is not the case! The 250F models were kind of jointly developed.. Suzuki did in fact design the engines, and Kawasaki provided the frames and (most of) the plastic.
https://pulpmx.com/2018/10/03/classic-steel-132-2004-kxf-rmz-250/
yeah, I didn't say anything about co-developing, just "collaborated" for lack of a better word to describe the 2 working together in some fashion to have the same bike under the plastics with different colors. It was a long time ago and the sons of 2 of fellow VMX club members showed up with them. They were more than happy to explain it was the same bike built by 1 or the company and re-badged by the 2nd company. Obviously the 2 companies were working together is some form- call it what you want. Looking back, it could have actually been the 110, but I definitely remember 1 guy at some point had a 140 and was detailing all the specs on it and why he liked to ride that because he was a shorter guy and not really competitive racing anyways.
Personally, I do not expect to see Honda back in the two stroke business. Suzuki does not seems to want to invest money into development.
The only chance is Yamaha.
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To be fair, after decades of treading water, Yamaha has been ok with their 2-stroke development over the last few years -- Adding the brand new yz65 in 2018, then a full refresh of the yz85 and YZ125 in 2022, as well as ergo/styling updates to the 250 the same year.
Another significant update to the 85 again this year.
It may not be competitive with the Austrian bikes at the highest levels, but at 2/3 the price, for most kids you'd have to at least consider it as a viable option.
It would be easy for Suzuki to do this. I built my own and it really wasn't all that hard. The 250z chassis handles fantastic with a RM250 engine in it.
If consumers buy the 2T models, more will come to market. Kawi must have thought KTM 300cc sales (and Beta, etc.) were solid enough to warrant a new bike in the same market.
^^^Lets all go buy a new 2-stroke, and if we all band together and buy up the new 2-strokes the other oems will see it and start making new ones. - from 2007 Vital
Can you explain how the new 2 strokes are too complicated to work on? Or too expensive to rebuild? I know they have FI but what else has changed? I’m curious thanks.
It’s not for me- it’s my job.
It’s people’s perception- they didn’t want four strokes, they wanted two strokes. Go read the posts. “Simple” “easy” “cheap” “father and son in the garage”
They werent asking for EFI two strokes with balancer shafts and electric starts. They wanted ‘old’ because they didn’t like change.
However, Tbf, I’ve had several jobs on TPI bikes which have been more difficult than ‘old’ two strokes.
Starter motors and bendix are more expensive than kickstarts. As are the far more complicated wiring harnesses. And I never had an oil pump or CCPS go wrong on an ‘old’ two stroke..
These are things the average Joe in his garage may not be able or at least confident enough to play with.
;-)
All Yamaha has to do is rebrand the Fantic 300 and slap it in a yz250f frame with a new wishbone. The pieces are there. We just need someone to give it the green light.
Sounds pretty easy. Let us know when you are in mass production on yours and I'll think about buying 1.
There is a difference in the 2t nostalgia crowd vs. the real world buyer.
The real world buyers were asking for a 2t product competitive to what's available from other brands (mostly KTM.)
That means large bore, balancer, fuel injected, spring fork, e start. I think Kawi delivered on the ask, and based on the volume of deposits reported here, others agree.
Fwiw, the new 2ts are still much easier to work on than 4ts, even with the sensor and fi packages.
This right here is the answer. I respect and think the old school 2 strokes are cool, but I wouldn’t pay new bike price for one.
The only significant complication I've found with the newer bikes is finding published sensor data. TPS is usually well documented, but not the temp sensors. I don't recall on the MAP. If your bike starts pinging or running different you have to diagnose not only the usual suspects like air leaks, but also the sensors.
So I agree with the premise that a FI 2T will be harder to work on. What I don't agree with is the opinion that easy to work on is the appeal. I really have fun on a good handling 2T. The 05+ Honda and the last gen Suzuki are a delight to ride. Lap times? Depends on the track. If you have a lot of man made obstacles right after a corner, it's really hard to compete on a 2T. Sand tracks, the 2T might be an advantage for amateurs.
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