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Aside from the conversation about whether this issue should get caught during setup, that’s pretty ridiculous that for the sometimes $500+ setup fee tacked on to the price of a bike you’re getting a less experienced technician setting up and going over the bike.
That’s terrible….. heart goes out to this mans family and friends. RIP💔
Plus it's not even about checking bolts. To the best of my knowledge, the issue is about the clamps covering the full 360 degrees of the bar. You can't have that, because it will never be tight. The radius of one or both parts extends too far, it needs a gap under the bolt in order to provide clamping force. If that really is the issue, folks could probably fix this themselves by milling a small amount from the clamp face.
Builders might work for the sales dept., but are employed by the service dept.
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Buy a set of Ride Engineering clamps. They come with a solid top clamp which joins both clamps together, like Yogi used to run on his RC250
That's how a bad manager runs a shop into the ground. Of course, the sales department wants parts at cost and next to free labor, it boosts that department. Sales would flip out to pay 50% of the set up to a tech, but that's how it should be. And I wouldn't let any of their guys work on a billable ticket for a customer. Every department should be separate and a ticket for everything, end of rant. So sad for everyone involved.
I didn’t say one way or the other? Just said it was ridiculous to essentially get an apprentice assembling and going over a brand new motorcycle that at times have a large setup fee tacked on. Don’t get me wrong, I completely understand if the senior/master tech has more important things to worry about, but it shouldn’t be what sounds like amounts to an apprentice doing that alone.
I understand it’s not all dealers that do this, and not all dealers charge a setup fee. Just saying when it does happen that’s ridiculous.
I think this is a legitimate question. Given that thousands if not tens of thousands of these got past numerous “technicians" it's probably a lot more nuanced than you're expecting. The majority probably tighten down to the proper torque specification and the bars are tight enough to not be noticed. At least a significant number of them presumably had tie downs on them and they still didn't slip during transport or it would have been noticed.
Paying $250/hr for someone who can barely change a spark plug to take 2 hours to assemble your bike is obviously a racket, but it's your state legislature that enables that.
Condolences to the family, that's certainly tragic.
id wager a good attorney could successfully convince a jury that a reasonable technician would be able to discover the defect during installation and a dealer would be jointly liable for damages. definitely a mark against letting the shop porter build bikes.
what a mindblowing defect coming from honda though. ive built a bajillion bicycles and never once have i ever seen a lever, bar, or steerer clamp with a bad radius.
How can you blame the prepper?
He follows the book and it's still wrong, it's not his fault.
because he picks the clamps up in his hands and places them on top of the bar. if a rotor came out of the crate bent, would you not hold the PDI (pre delivery inspection) guy accountable for missing it?
It's not a bad radius, I don't think, although some pics make it look that way. On my bike, there is virtually no gap at the rear of the top clamp where it meets the lower clamp. Even if the bolt is torqued to spec, the clamp will not apply enough pressure or tension to hold the bars properly. Pushing the bike around and loading on the trailer with tie downs it's not noticeable at all, made worse by the fact that the bar pad covers the handlebar clamps from view. Land from a small jump and it's very noticeable when your bars are in your lap. I've owned a lot of Honda products and I'm very surprised to see a flaw of this nature get through.
I've owned a lot of Hondas too. But most of them were manufactured and built strictly with Japanese parts, not stuff coming from subcontractors that don't have the same quality control as Honda has inside their own facilities. Ultimately, it will fall back on Honda, but I'll bet this casting came from one of those 3rd party contractors. And I'll bet that this is NOT a Japanese part.
I feel like its very important to note the OP said "PRIOR" to the recall. So the techs, the dealership, and the rider most likely where not expecting any sort of issues with handlebar clamps. Then sadly the worst happened. It becomes a grim reminder to double check your bikes and heed factory recalls when they are put out.
May they rest in peace.
After that, Id be telling them to order some mounts from luxon or somewhere on THIER dime.
This was recall from Honda that involved incorrectly machined lower clamps that weren't holding the bar correctly and could allow it to move.
Do some research before you open your c**sucker about something you know nothing about.
There was no indication on these machines when assembling them that an issue exist. The clamps were tight enough to stay put while pushing the unit and even testing it in a parking lot situation.
Your analogy is incorrect. A bent rotor is visible and noticeable, this was not the case with these machines.
Its not an "apprentice" at good dealers. Our Setup guy has been doing it for awhile now and is as good at that job as I am at rebuilding engines and diagnosing problems.
Some places have people stil wet behind the ears doing it but thats because they suck at retaining employees. But there are steps along the way before it reaches your hands. No less than 2 more people have to sign off a check list before it reaches the customer.
This issue wasnt noticeable at set-up, it wouldnt have mattered who put your bike together in thise instance.
Pit Row
As I said in my first post in this thread this is a conversation completely aside from whether a setup tech should notice this or not. I’m not familiar enough with the exact details of the issue at hand to comment one way or the other, so I have not.
I hate to tell you this, but good dealers are few and far between nowadays. Credit to you guys if you operate better than most, but unfortunately most suck. I didn’t even know a setup tech position existed until this thread, always assumed it was the guys working in the shop assembling new models when things were a little slower
Oh look. Another guy with mad talk and name calling on the internet. 🙄 Of course your screenname literally being "Honda Tech" shows that your are completely unbiased on this topic. 👌
We couldnt afford to not have a setup guy, we sell on average 60-80 new units a month not including power equipment and we only sell Honda. His job also included UBI/cleaning trade in units. The only time a mainline tech would touch a new unit is if hes off work or the customer is getting custom accessory wiring done or the machine is being rushed.
Large multi lines can sell that many UTVs alone in a month. They most likely have multi setup people.
Southern Honda in Chattanooga routinely sells hundreds every month.
No just someone who has the correct information about a topic people like you know nothing about.
Not all dealers are full of idiots, we care just a much about your machines as we would our own.
A lack of clamp gap isn't noticeable?
And/or
A lower clamp with a larger radius than the bar it surrounds isn't noticeable?
Make it make sense
let’s not forget bang your cold engine off the rev limiter within seconds of it starting and taking a rip down the pavement on your brand new tire…
Holy shit, buy aftermarket bar mounts and be done with it if you have these bikes.
Its not that expensive or hard.
Its not that cut and dry. I can show you clamps installed that failed the recall inspection and you'd would believe its ok.
The units getting inspected have to have a gap between 1 and 1.99mm, (39 and 78 thoundsandths of an inch) anything larger or smaller is considered no good. Can you see the difference in less then 1mm with your naked eye? Its so minute were having to measure a gap smaller than 1mm to determine if the part is ok or not.
The bikes look and feel ok when assembled, I just had a customer whos 250RWE was outside the range and he'd rode it for 11 hours without issue, but it needs replaced due to the measurements we are provided.
I appreciate the response, but yes. A stem clamp gap delta on a bicycle of 1mm is immediately noticeable. I realize packaging may make it more difficult in this case to discern, but I'd argue 1mm is extremely significant. I've only ever measured valve lash in imperial thousandths and that at no more than 0.010-0.012. 0.037 is a chasm.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do wonder what a jury would say
Well im telling you your not going to notice this issue by looking at it. Of all the ones we've measured or replaced they all appear very similar. This isnt something your going to look at and say "thats f**ked up".
The spacing around the bars isnt the measurement were taking, its the the gap between the upper and lower clamps. You cant tell me you'd notice a difference in less than 1mm with your own eyes. And if you had never had any issues before like that your not going to scrutinize every millimeter of gap when assembling these machines. Now if you were riding it on a test ride and the bars moved or felt loose then that's a different story. But tha hasn't been the case for us.
A jury would blame the manufacturer and thats why we have recalls.
Thank you Sir, knowing that I would take my business to you in a heartbeat.
Yes, you can see a .039 gap, but can you see the difference between .039 and. 038?
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