National Riders Association to Improve Safety, Fairness, and Long-Term Sustainability of the Sport

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11/25/2025 9:06pm
RDnutz wrote:
why create an US vs. THEM situation? Racers already make more than 9-5 40 hr a week folks - sometimes a LOT more. They have multiple...

why create an US vs. THEM situation? Racers already make more than 9-5 40 hr a week folks - sometimes a LOT more. They have multiple opportunities to sign gear/merch contracts independent of the team that sponsors them and other opportunities through socials. They get taken care of when they are hurt or out for whatever reasons without losing paydays. They are free agents that control their own destinies. This is a huge swindle that does not provide anything better than what sponsored racers have right now- and they aren't forced to give anyone a cut to "represent and protect" them. It's a play by wolves that smell a big payday if they can trick enough people into thinking it is a better situation than current.

Just let the riders ride and leave the politics and grifters out of it.

It’s almost like you didn’t learn that the “9-5 40 hr a week” came about BECAUSE of organized labor. 

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11/25/2025 11:44pm
Regis wrote:
Can competitors in a pay-to-enter racing series form a union?1. If competitors are not employees, then legally it’s not a “union.”In most racing series...

Can competitors in a pay-to-enter racing series form a union?

1. If competitors are not employees, then legally it’s not a “union.”

In most racing series, drivers/riders pay an entry fee and are essentially independent participants, not employees of the series or promoter.

Labor unions (under U.S. law like the NLRA) only apply to employees bargaining with an employer.

So, in a traditional sense, no — they can’t form a union, because there’s no employer-employee relationship.


 

2. But they can absolutely form a collective association

Even without employee status, competitors can legally join together to create things like:

✔️ A Drivers/Riders Association

✔️ A Competitor Council

✔️ A Collective Bargaining Group (non-labor)

✔️ A Competitors Committee


These groups can:  

Present unified demands to series organizers

Vote on safety issues

Negotiate rule changes

Coordinate concerns

Share legal or insurance resources

Apply collective pressure on the series (e.g., “we won’t race if X is unsafe”)


This is 100% legal as long as the group is not price-fixing, controlling markets, or violating antitrust law.


3. What they CANNOT do (legally)

They must avoid anything that could be seen as:

❌ Price-fixing (e.g., agreeing what everyone will charge sponsors)

❌ Collusion on commercial matters (e.g., agreeing everyone will boycott certain brands)

❌ Anything that manipulates a market


Because competitors are usually independent contractors, antitrust law applies more strictly than for employees.

4. Examples of legal competitor associations

This exists already in racing:

F1 Grand Prix Drivers Association (GPDA)

AMA Pro Riders Safety Groups

NHRA Racers Associations

IMSA Drivers Council

These groups are not unions, but they function similarly in terms of collective voice.



 

Point 4 mentions an existing AMA Pro Riders group. 

What is that? Are they active in MX, or just road racing? 

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RDnutz
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11/26/2025 7:57am
RDnutz wrote:
why create an US vs. THEM situation? Racers already make more than 9-5 40 hr a week folks - sometimes a LOT more. They have multiple...

why create an US vs. THEM situation? Racers already make more than 9-5 40 hr a week folks - sometimes a LOT more. They have multiple opportunities to sign gear/merch contracts independent of the team that sponsors them and other opportunities through socials. They get taken care of when they are hurt or out for whatever reasons without losing paydays. They are free agents that control their own destinies. This is a huge swindle that does not provide anything better than what sponsored racers have right now- and they aren't forced to give anyone a cut to "represent and protect" them. It's a play by wolves that smell a big payday if they can trick enough people into thinking it is a better situation than current.

Just let the riders ride and leave the politics and grifters out of it.

It’s almost like you didn’t learn that the “9-5 40 hr a week” came about BECAUSE of organized labor. 

I am well versed in it. Guess you never learned that was more than 100 years ago? All the good attributes were incorporated (child labor laws for 1) and the idea of collecting bargaining still exists but times have changed massively and unions long ago outlived their usefulness to the working stiff due to corruption, favoritism, and power hungry "leaders" making obscene salaries who want to influence politics using forced union dues to keep living the high life more than helping average workers. I worked in 2 union shops in different fields myself. There's ZERO need here for a union or collective bargaining or threats of strikes that would completely alienate the fans and riders and kill the sport while doing so. Trying to fix a "problem" that simply doesn't exist.

 

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gt80rider
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11/26/2025 8:13am
RDnutz wrote:
I am well versed in it. Guess you never learned that was more than 100 years ago? All the good attributes were incorporated (child labor laws...

I am well versed in it. Guess you never learned that was more than 100 years ago? All the good attributes were incorporated (child labor laws for 1) and the idea of collecting bargaining still exists but times have changed massively and unions long ago outlived their usefulness to the working stiff due to corruption, favoritism, and power hungry "leaders" making obscene salaries who want to influence politics using forced union dues to keep living the high life more than helping average workers. I worked in 2 union shops in different fields myself. There's ZERO need here for a union or collective bargaining or threats of strikes that would completely alienate the fans and riders and kill the sport while doing so. Trying to fix a "problem" that simply doesn't exist.

 

Tell me you an npc without telling me you an npc.... lol... ya sure... no problem... you work your ass off, risk your life on the daily, for pennies on the dollar... so that people in suits who don't ride, make brinks truck after brinks truck of cold hard cash, off your broken bones and destroyed mind... 

Will say you are one well programmed worker bot rd... standing up for your masters like a good slave... lolll

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The Shop

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11/26/2025 8:25am
"The elite athletes signed on to support the NMRA will remain anonymous at this time for security purposes"Whatever the merits of a rider's association, and there...

"The elite athletes signed on to support the NMRA will remain anonymous at this time for security purposes"

Whatever the merits of a rider's association, and there are many, this is delusional.  First, there's no real possibility of preserving anonymity.  Second, you need the elite riders to stand up for anything like this to happen.  Which is why it's not likely to happen.  

Tyler D wrote:
you never know. next/current downturn could bring with it a bit of collusion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_Actors_Guildhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAG-AFTRAMany high-profile actors refused to join SAG initially. This changed when...

you never know. next/current downturn could bring with it a bit of collusion. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_Actors_Guild

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAG-AFTRA

Many high-profile actors refused to join SAG initially. This changed when the producers made an agreement amongst themselves not to bid competitively for talent. A pivotal meeting, at the home of Frank Morgan (Ralph's brother, who played the title role in The Wizard of Oz), was what gave SAG its critical mass. Prompted by Eddie Cantor's insistence, at that meeting, that any response to that producer's agreement help all actors, not just the already established ones, it took only three weeks for SAG membership to go from around 80 members to more than 4,000. Cantor's participation was critical, particularly because of his friendship with the recently elected President Franklin D. Roosevelt. After several years and the passage of the National Labor Relations Act, the producers agreed to negotiate with SAG in 1937.

 

If we're going to indulge in fantasies based on events and conditions almost 100 years ago, the creation of United Artists might be a better goal.

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TyRod
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11/26/2025 10:28am
stull33 wrote:
My name is Gene , I utilize AI technology to assist me in various duties. Raced as a contracted Suzuki athlete from 1996 - early 2000’s...

My name is Gene , I utilize AI technology to assist me in various duties. Raced as a contracted Suzuki athlete from 1996 - early 2000’s collecting 15 championships &. 10 concussions , shattered my face in 16 places. Treated my TBI’s successfully & cultivated the understanding of how to treat the symptoms of post TBI life 

 

  Life after racing , I developed 3 dozen websites, 2 digital education courses utilizing automated Crm software , designed branding for many orgs , owned & operated guided segway tours with a fleet of 24 machines for 16 yrs guiding & training 3-5 k tourist per season , was an officer at my Masonic lodge No:725 , still coach motocross , build motocross tracks, a music therapist & wellness retreat owner / operator 
 

IMG 3263 7.jpeg?VersionId=PRkgfczOzPNxLzIMG 2460 4IMG 5984 0.jpeg?VersionId=beqe4VFJGKVEULQZ1XzZDv zeLINZtIMG 5990 1.jpeg?VersionId=nOZayVCl2krkpZCGtrv5GM0vvJwIMG 0907 1.jpeg?VersionId=4przcu12HfVoLPYgTmWk6LJ992LBZIMG 2296 1IMG 2299 7.jpeg?VersionId=wWJ60vrNv7mNLh1HvV5nrGLo JQGgJIMG 2458 8

Damn, you had a pretty awesome amateur career in one of the best eras of MX, IMO!! Thankfully you've came out ok after all the injuries!

Good luck on the new adventure!

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Not hillbilly
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11/26/2025 11:16am

Absolute power corrupts. You all know this, and you clearly know corruption exists on both sides of the Labor/Management divide. But claiming unions are automatically corrupt is as asinine as claiming management is always criminally crooked too. Just like our system of governance, there needs to be checks and balances to keep a semblance of social order. That this is being disputed is remarkable.

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RDnutz
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11/26/2025 11:24am
RDnutz wrote:
I am well versed in it. Guess you never learned that was more than 100 years ago? All the good attributes were incorporated (child labor laws...

I am well versed in it. Guess you never learned that was more than 100 years ago? All the good attributes were incorporated (child labor laws for 1) and the idea of collecting bargaining still exists but times have changed massively and unions long ago outlived their usefulness to the working stiff due to corruption, favoritism, and power hungry "leaders" making obscene salaries who want to influence politics using forced union dues to keep living the high life more than helping average workers. I worked in 2 union shops in different fields myself. There's ZERO need here for a union or collective bargaining or threats of strikes that would completely alienate the fans and riders and kill the sport while doing so. Trying to fix a "problem" that simply doesn't exist.

 

gt80rider wrote:
Tell me you an npc without telling me you an npc.... lol... ya sure... no problem... you work your ass off, risk your life on the...

Tell me you an npc without telling me you an npc.... lol... ya sure... no problem... you work your ass off, risk your life on the daily, for pennies on the dollar... so that people in suits who don't ride, make brinks truck after brinks truck of cold hard cash, off your broken bones and destroyed mind... 

Will say you are one well programmed worker bot rd... standing up for your masters like a good slave... lolll

too funny- are you a comedian? You got me all wrong dude. I retired early at 56 years old and my only master is Father Time. I started riding in the early 1970s and like many of us had dreams of 1 day getting sponsored and racing for a living. Unfortunately, I was in the 99.9% of riders that would never get to that elite level and career. The racers we follow are the .1% that DO get sponsored and race for a living. They make a great living doing what they love and getting paid well doing it. They are also Free Agents that don't need any middleman group representing them when they choose which new contracts to sign or dictate terms of their employment with sponsors. There is no value added for these pro racers forming a union. Your ramblings above don't apply to the .1% I described, and the only entities making bank off the sport the way you think they are is the promoters and media groups. Maybe go boycott them or something if you have to have a bad guy here that keeps you up at night?

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11/26/2025 11:27am
TeamGreen wrote:
🍿Popcorn is made…So, where are we at with this? It’s been a day, already, and we’re starting out by quoting a bunch of NLRB based pro...

🍿Popcorn is made…

So, where are we at with this? It’s been a day, already, and we’re starting out by quoting a bunch of NLRB based pro unionesque language…so…uh, no yeah…

Where’s this all goin’?

Have we solved the tragic injustice that is Professional Motocross-Supercross-SuperMotocross Racing? Have the multi-billionaires that run the game been brought to their knees?  

stull33 wrote:

only the cyclist, UFC fighters and any other major sport  deserve to have athlete representation, but not  motocross, why?  

TeamGreen wrote:
Where did I say riders…indeed, racers…don’t “deserve to have athlete representation”…? What I made light of was your NLRB/Union and “make them employees” diatribe that I whole...

Where did I say riders…indeed, racers…don’t “deserve to have athlete representation”…? 

What I made light of was your NLRB/Union and “make them employees” diatribe that I whole heartedly think is bordering on you being dead wrong and of a political mindset that I don’t agree with.

 

I have some questions. Many of the factories/teams are based in CA. In CA we have something called AB5 (thanks (please note sarcasm here) to Lorena Gonzales) that says if an independent contractor is integral to the operation of your business (who can argue that a rider is not integral to a race team) then that rider HAS to be an employee unless they are incorporated and you are contracting with a corporation. That being said, if the riders are corporate entities, and they collectively make demands, would that not be illegal? As corporations are not allowed to collude?

Just talking out my ass here

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FreshTopEnd
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11/26/2025 1:11pm

AB5 addressing use independent contractor status to avoid giving employees benefits/SSI/etc. doesn't seem apt at all to professional athletes.  

APLMAN99
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Fantasy
11/26/2025 1:42pm

So who is actually running this 'new organization' and how much of the riders' money are they taking off the top for running it?  

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jmo443
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11/26/2025 1:54pm
APLMAN99 wrote:

So who is actually running this 'new organization' and how much of the riders' money are they taking off the top for running it?  

“Anonymous” 

1
11/26/2025 1:54pm

I don't know who in here doesn't know this, other than the guy posting this crap, but UNIONs DO NOT WORK. They just cost everyone more money and involve more people that have nothing to do with the end goal except to collect money for themselves. Show me a thriving union that "works"...I'll wait. Just like waiting for the first real working model of socialism or communism.

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spimx
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11/26/2025 2:21pm
HonDawg17 wrote:
I don't know who in here doesn't know this, other than the guy posting this crap, but UNIONs DO NOT WORK. They just cost everyone more...

I don't know who in here doesn't know this, other than the guy posting this crap, but UNIONs DO NOT WORK. They just cost everyone more money and involve more people that have nothing to do with the end goal except to collect money for themselves. Show me a thriving union that "works"...I'll wait. Just like waiting for the first real working model of socialism or communism.

You need to take a history lesson, union are responsible for most all the labor laws from the 1910s. 

The iaff and ups has a crazy good union. There's a reason most corporate interests and corporate owned media are anti union. 

 

No it would not be good for the sport but it would be good for the racers

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lappedrider
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11/26/2025 2:37pm

If organized labor goes away, so do most of the things we all take for granted for the working class.  The income gap is expanding, let’s not put that in hyper drive.  

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Not hillbilly
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11/26/2025 4:46pm

For those of you concerned about “middle men” taking money away from any riders involved in a collective bargaining agreement, do you also oppose the rider agents that currently represent, negotiate for and take quite a bit of money from every star racer currently? 

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FreshTopEnd
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11/26/2025 5:25pm Edited Date/Time 11/27/2025 10:30am
For those of you concerned about “middle men” taking money away from any riders involved in a collective bargaining agreement, do you also oppose the rider...

For those of you concerned about “middle men” taking money away from any riders involved in a collective bargaining agreement, do you also oppose the rider agents that currently represent, negotiate for and take quite a bit of money from every star racer currently? 

That they have agents underscores that they are independent contractors.

What objections I have to agents in MX is that many (not all) don't appear to me to be competent, add value, or seem to have a grasp that they have a fiduciary duty of undivided loyalty to advance their client's interests, which includes subordinating their own interests to the interests of their clients.  

I don't have conceptual objections to agents, or to a union.  As a practical matter, however, I think a riders' union in this sport cohesive across all talent levels is a wild ass pipe dream.  People have been talking about this for the last 25 years on boards like this, and before then when boards didn't exist.  It hasn't happened - largely because the elite riders don't need it and are not willing or interested in getting sidetracked into it.  Sorry for that real world take.   If anything I'd say a scab mentality dominates top to bottom - guys are climbing over one another trying to get prime opportunities.  

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Not hillbilly
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11/26/2025 5:40pm
For those of you concerned about “middle men” taking money away from any riders involved in a collective bargaining agreement, do you also oppose the rider...

For those of you concerned about “middle men” taking money away from any riders involved in a collective bargaining agreement, do you also oppose the rider agents that currently represent, negotiate for and take quite a bit of money from every star racer currently? 

That they have agents underscores that they are independent contractors.What objections I have to agents in MX is that many (not all) don't appear to me...

That they have agents underscores that they are independent contractors.

What objections I have to agents in MX is that many (not all) don't appear to me to be competent, add value, or seem to have a grasp that they have a fiduciary duty of undivided loyalty to advance their client's interests, which includes subordinating their own interests to the interests of their clients.  

I don't have conceptual objections to agents, or to a union.  As a practical matter, however, I think a riders' union in this sport cohesive across all talent levels is a wild ass pipe dream.  People have been talking about this for the last 25 years on boards like this, and before then when boards didn't exist.  It hasn't happened - largely because the elite riders don't need it and are not willing or interested in getting sidetracked into it.  Sorry for that real world take.   If anything I'd say a scab mentality dominates top to bottom - guys are climbing over one another trying to get prime opportunities.  

That they have agents also underscores the fact that it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a lone rider to negotiate a decent deal with a corporation.

But to your point about the real world, I largely agree. There’s only a tiny universe of marketable talent at any given time, the audience is also relatively small, and the promoters and organizers intentionally keep the number of events limited to maintain their control. I just think that change is only possible if one is willing to consider changing. 
 

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FreshTopEnd
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11/27/2025 10:44am
That they have agents also underscores the fact that it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a lone rider to negotiate a decent deal...

That they have agents also underscores the fact that it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a lone rider to negotiate a decent deal with a corporation.

But to your point about the real world, I largely agree. There’s only a tiny universe of marketable talent at any given time, the audience is also relatively small, and the promoters and organizers intentionally keep the number of events limited to maintain their control. I just think that change is only possible if one is willing to consider changing. 
 

I'm not sure about that with respect to agents.  I guess it depends what talent level the rider has in the sport.  The more elite a rider is the more leverage he has to attract sponsors and play them off one another for the best deal.

What agents can do, and may help some mid level talent, is connect riders to opportunities and apply some expertise to refining terms. A good agent also allows the rider to focus on rider prep rather than churning deal opportunities.  There's an inherent value to having an agent or business manager mind the store while a rider focuses on training, etc.   But not everyone who wants in on the entourage is good at that.

Whether the cost of an agent nets a bigger deal seems questionable to me, at least with respect to top talent.  An elite rider might do better paying a lawyer by the hour to review contracts.  I've definitely seen contracts through agents in this sport that could have benefited from a transactional attorney to avoid grief to the rider.  The Berik contracts from the 2000s come to mind.  

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Not hillbilly
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11/27/2025 2:45pm

FTE, I will also agree with you that a good lawyer (or perhaps even business manager) might be able to get as good a deal, or even better deal for a sought-after racer than some of these agents out here. But my point is that the racer benefits from having someone on their side negotiating on their behalf, and the racer will pay for that “middle man” and be glad they did.  I’m just kicking the chair out from under the “no middle men” argument against rider representation. An aspiring professional racer would have to be an idiot not to seek professional help with their contracts. 

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ando
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11/27/2025 3:09pm
HonDawg17 wrote:
I don't know who in here doesn't know this, other than the guy posting this crap, but UNIONs DO NOT WORK. They just cost everyone more...

I don't know who in here doesn't know this, other than the guy posting this crap, but UNIONs DO NOT WORK. They just cost everyone more money and involve more people that have nothing to do with the end goal except to collect money for themselves. Show me a thriving union that "works"...I'll wait. Just like waiting for the first real working model of socialism or communism.

Unions can work, if they are organised and run appropriately.  Here in Australia in the 70’s and 80’s many unions went off the rails when they decided to use their influence to start interfering in how companies were run.  Couple that with corrupt union leaders and it went downhill fast.  

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ando
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11/27/2025 3:57pm
RDnutz wrote:
I am well versed in it. Guess you never learned that was more than 100 years ago? All the good attributes were incorporated (child labor laws...

I am well versed in it. Guess you never learned that was more than 100 years ago? All the good attributes were incorporated (child labor laws for 1) and the idea of collecting bargaining still exists but times have changed massively and unions long ago outlived their usefulness to the working stiff due to corruption, favoritism, and power hungry "leaders" making obscene salaries who want to influence politics using forced union dues to keep living the high life more than helping average workers. I worked in 2 union shops in different fields myself. There's ZERO need here for a union or collective bargaining or threats of strikes that would completely alienate the fans and riders and kill the sport while doing so. Trying to fix a "problem" that simply doesn't exist.

 

gt80rider wrote:
Tell me you an npc without telling me you an npc.... lol... ya sure... no problem... you work your ass off, risk your life on the...

Tell me you an npc without telling me you an npc.... lol... ya sure... no problem... you work your ass off, risk your life on the daily, for pennies on the dollar... so that people in suits who don't ride, make brinks truck after brinks truck of cold hard cash, off your broken bones and destroyed mind... 

Will say you are one well programmed worker bot rd... standing up for your masters like a good slave... lolll

Are you saying riders are entitled to a living from racing dirtbikes?

jmo443
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11/27/2025 4:58pm
RDnutz wrote:
I am well versed in it. Guess you never learned that was more than 100 years ago? All the good attributes were incorporated (child labor laws...

I am well versed in it. Guess you never learned that was more than 100 years ago? All the good attributes were incorporated (child labor laws for 1) and the idea of collecting bargaining still exists but times have changed massively and unions long ago outlived their usefulness to the working stiff due to corruption, favoritism, and power hungry "leaders" making obscene salaries who want to influence politics using forced union dues to keep living the high life more than helping average workers. I worked in 2 union shops in different fields myself. There's ZERO need here for a union or collective bargaining or threats of strikes that would completely alienate the fans and riders and kill the sport while doing so. Trying to fix a "problem" that simply doesn't exist.

 

gt80rider wrote:
Tell me you an npc without telling me you an npc.... lol... ya sure... no problem... you work your ass off, risk your life on the...

Tell me you an npc without telling me you an npc.... lol... ya sure... no problem... you work your ass off, risk your life on the daily, for pennies on the dollar... so that people in suits who don't ride, make brinks truck after brinks truck of cold hard cash, off your broken bones and destroyed mind... 

Will say you are one well programmed worker bot rd... standing up for your masters like a good slave... lolll

ando wrote:

Are you saying riders are entitled to a living from racing dirtbikes?

He’s trying to say he’s 14.” Npc. Bot. “


He should be the BA of this said union. 

1

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