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No
Exactly. We need a reset. We probably won't need another for 20 years or so, but we need to make changes now, then schedule a review for every 10 years or so.
I have a plan for how to make this happen with the least impact on everyone. I've posted it a few times. I'll see if I can find it, or I'll rewrite it this weekend. Then we can all decide if it's a good starting point, or if we need to solve it another way.
I know we joke about being Vitards, but I get the impression that there a lot of intelligent people on Vital. If we choose, we can create a starting point for industry to consider.
Maybe the AMA should start enforcing a minimum number of flaggers at AMA sanctioned events.
If it’s true, and the race leaders went around the course twice before anyone attended to Aidan, it is astonishingly bad.
There need to be flaggers with radio communications, especially in hard to see portions of any given course.
It just seems incomprehensible to me this would happen, especially at an event like Mammoth.
While it may not be the right time, it certainly would be beneficial to understand exactly what happened and from there, decide if there’s anything that can/should change.
I don’t know how you could possibly argue against more flaggers though.
My brother lost a daughter when she was in her teens. The horror of the hurt is un-imaginable as a parent. There is nothing you can say to try and console the person who suffered the loss of a child. You just be there, cry with them, make yourself available for ANYTHING they may need. This sport doesn't suck. Death sucks. And it can happen in this sport, or walking across the street, or a Dr visit.
Last week I received news that my 23 yr old daughter's boat had sank in the middle of the night on Lake Tanganyika Africa. There were hours where that was all the information I had gotten. Mom and I were horrified as to her reality through the hours of that night as we awaited any information regarding to her demise. Thankfully after 17 hours of her trying to swim to shore she was rescued! Many don't get a second chance. We were blessed and fortunate.
Love your freakin kids like there is no tomorrow.
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I know cooksie is a sensationalist so the fact that even he was saying that mammoth does a great job with having a massive amount of flaggers and rotating them out frequently and giving them breaks says a lot. He said they also have ski patrol guys scattered all around the track and one of them went over to him and did cpr. So it sounds like its not a negligence thing at all, its just a freak accident.
On another note Don Maeda brought up a great point about how scummy it is that when you go to try to watch old videos of aiden all that comes up now is these random ass sensationalist youtube videos trying to capitalize off his death. Its insane. Theyve flooded onto youtube since. I wish there was a way to get them taken down because its friggin ridiculous. Theres ppl like overseas that just grab whatever makes the news and they slap together these videos making all kinds of bs claims to get clicks. So unfortunate.
Scum.
I know of an incident where parents lost a young child (ran into street from from yard, hit by vehicle). Vehicle happened to be a company rig for a successful business.
Three attorneys literally got into a physical fight in their front yard over who got to pitch their “services” first to the grieving family.
The family got so many calls from ambulance chasing attorneys that they had to change to an unlisted number.
People who see a family tragedy as a business opportunity are some of the lowest forms of scum on earth.
So it was an endo then?? I'm surprised no one from Vital was there and witnessed it. That lady above makes it sound like it was 4 minutes until they got to him?
4 minutes feels like 4 hours when you have an emergency situation like that with an unconscious body.
I heard about this over the weekend. Then all the social posts started coming out about making the sport safer. What are we making safer? I still have no idea what actually happened and I have a feeling most other people don’t either. Have some respect for the privacy of the family instead of chasing the clicks. RIP
Man, I hate facebook. My wife forwarded that comment thinking it was about Aidan when it was in regards to another incident at SOBMX regional on June 1st. I thought it was odd that info wasn’t out there and that’s why I hesitated initially to even mention it. I should have went with my gut and not posted.
the absence of any verified true accounts of the accident by anyone connected to the track, promoters, or riders & families, etc. makes me think all sides have lawyered up and been advised not to make public comments that could be used in any proceedings later on.
As sad as it is, I think that's a given.
Consider this - It’s very possible that the only people that truly and definitively know what happened are the ones that were immediately behind him, and allegedly hit him.
If this is the case, then I can understand those closest to the truth not wanting to openly discuss it yet.
It’s also very possible that there’s nothing that could’ve been done to save him. Some injuries are non-recoverable. I have a feeling this is closest to the truth, which is why nothing is being discussed about it just yet.
Those that know this truth are currently suffering through immense and painful loss.
Id be glad to be part of something like this.
The details obviously do not need to be made public out of respect for Aiden and his family. However while everything is still fresh in the minds of anyone who had credible information or eyewitness accounts of what actually happened, riders, flaggers, track personnel, EMT, etc should be interviewed or meet with the promoter, AMA, MX sports. Yes it may be hard to tell what you know, and in the end maybe there’s nothing that would’ve prevented it, but you’ve got to try right? I sincerely hope this conversation is happening or has happened with the goal in mind of can we be better?
Not wanting to derail thread, but I think you're right and I'd be happy to help with this.
More importantly for now though, rest in peace to a young rider who had a bright future ahead of him and thoughts to his family and friends. This sport gives us so much, but can also be immeasurably cruel.
These are direct quotes from Kris Keefer's kid Aiden from his podcast a couple days ago
"I come around, and then Aidan's laying in the middle of the track, and I was like, ‘Aw, damnit,'"
"Originally, I thought he was knocked out just because of where the area was. I don't see how you could crash big [there]. Maybe he slid out and just smacked his head."
"So then I put another lap down. I started to open up a little bit of a gap, and I come around again, and Aidan's still laying there. I come around again, and then they started doing chest compressions on him. ... On the last lap, they had him on a stretcher, and then they red-flagged it."
Kris Claims he crashed with another rider named Ky Gentry, so who knows, but to be laying there unconscious for several laps while the race is going by is not a good look for 2x and Mammoth.
If this is true, it is completely and totally unacceptable. Even if nothing could be done to save his life, an event of this magnitude should be better managed.
How on earth does a section of the track go totally unseen by anyone other than those that are racing? This just seems unfathomable to me.
An unconscious rider on a track should be noticed and responded to within seconds, not minutes.
Agreed. Particularly at a race like this. This is one of the biggest races of the year for the moto community-it’s not like this is chicken licks raceway on a random race with flaggers paid a cheeseburger and fries to volunteer.
Pit Row
ML, why yank down the screenshot of the motocross moms facebook post someone posted yesterday???
Because it turns out that Facebook post has nothing to do with Aidan’s circumstance.
@dang472 explains this above.
Yes I deleted it because it was wrong. The scenario had a lot of similarities so it got lumped into this crash. The mom posted her experience with another large amateur race to speculate that the medical response and flagging at Mammoth had similar deficiencies. Maybe so, but until actual facts come out regarding cause of death, we’re just speculating. Hell, he could have hit his chest on the bars and stopped his heart like Damar Hamlin. No one is saying for sure that he was run over/hit his head/handlebar to the chest/etc.
I saw a reel yesterday of someone (can't remember who) endoing on one of the downhills at Mammoth last weekend. Dislocated shoulder, was down for a good while, barely missed by multiple riders bombing down the hill through pretty rough chop. I didn't see a single flagger or anyone go help, but it was a single POV shot and didn't capture the whole scene. I can see someone getting killed easily in such a situation. We are used to seeing the Dig Dugs get there fast, place tough blocks or the bike as temp protection, but that almost never happens at amateur events. I have seen a lot more penalties handed out for jumping on medical at local events lately, and it's often mentioned on the PA, so that's a good step.
Ky Gentry is a fast Idaho kid. I hope if he was involved that he's ok too.
What were the lap times for this class?
Around 2 minutes 8 Seconds looks like he went down on lap 5 out of 7!
Are we sure he laid there without help for multiple laps?
The quote posted from Keefer doesn't specifically say that, it says he was laying there.
Where did you see that he was just laying in the track for multiple laps without anyone attending to him?
Based on his comments, it appears he was laying there for at least 2min 8sec (one full lap) before anyone got to him.
Gotcha, I guess I should listen to the podcast myself.
From the quotes posted I don't see that it specifically says that.
I'm only speculating by the way he wrote his comments. It appears he saw him laying there, put down another lap (2:08) and saw him laying there again, and then after the second full lap he saw the medics chest pumping him. I guess there could have been medics there after the first full lap but he didn't indicate that. I'm sure someone who was there will eventually be able to tell us how he crashed because Keefer's comments seem to point to a part of the track where there were no obstacles and he assumes he maybe high-sided.
I was in the booth at Mammoth announcing this race, was working the whole event.
As soon as yellow flags came out in that section which was immediately on the lap he went down, I saw 3 EMT's on foot sprinting into that area...and I do mean sprinting....followed by a medic mule.
Given how well they staff the flaggers at that race and the immediate response I saw from the medics I would have a hard time believing that Aidan was laying on the track unattended to. Not trying to say I know more than anyone else but that is what I saw.
Terrible tragedy and really awful for the Zingg family.
Speculating that there were no medic's tending to AZ based off of AK's statement "saw him laying there" is a bit risky......AK lost one of his best friends, the visuals were still fresh in his mind & I'd be willing to bet he was just trying to get through the story.
While we still do not have the SPECIFIC area AZ crashed, the back section of Mammoth can be difficult to traverse on foot, but I can't fathom a world that AZ was laying unattended for more than 60 seconds.... Maybe I am wrong, but for everyone's sake I hope I'm not
Post a reply to: Aidan Zingg - this sport sucks