When can we actually expect a 350 from another manufacturer?

burn1986
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6/10/2025 6:43am
McG194 wrote:

Can you give me the correlation between making a 350 and going broke? 

Why?

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McG194
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6/10/2025 6:51am
McG194 wrote:

Can you give me the correlation between making a 350 and going broke? 

burn1986 wrote:

Why?

Because you should own your statement. 

8
burn1986
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6/10/2025 6:54am
McG194 wrote:

Because you should own your statement. 

You offended bro?

21
6/10/2025 6:56am
McG194 wrote:

Can you give me the correlation between making a 350 and going broke? 

burn1986 wrote:

Why?

You ok?

4

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McG194
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6/10/2025 6:59am
Langhammx wrote:

Triumph will have one by December, but won’t be out until ‘27. 

Smith246 wrote:

My first choice would be a yz350 but I'll happily take a TF350 to go alongside my TF450RC 👌

With the torqueyness of the reverse engine the Yamaha would be the best 350 made. My KTM is a little too high winding for my taste. 

My ideal 350 has 90% of the torque of a 450 with the top end of a built 250. Pull me out of the corners without the mass spinning around in the engine that tires me out. 

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ithinkitsbroke
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6/10/2025 7:09am
ML512 wrote:
Triumph would be the most likely and earliest we will see. Yamaha seems to be considering one but as of a few months ago, there wasn’t...

Triumph would be the most likely and earliest we will see. Yamaha seems to be considering one but as of a few months ago, there wasn’t one in the works yet.

Smith246 wrote:

Any chance you could pass onto the guys at yamaha how many people on here would buy a yz350 if they made one 🤣

ML512 wrote:

Ohh I hammered the R&D and research group a couple months ago about it. I spent half my time with them pitching it. 😂

People's champ right here. Thanks ML!

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Smith246
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6/10/2025 7:11am
We were just having this conversation at the track on Sun. Three of my buddies bought new Yamaha 450's and love them but I'm allset with...

We were just having this conversation at the track on Sun. Three of my buddies bought new Yamaha 450's and love them but I'm allset with getting back on a 450. Yamaha couldnt even keep a 350 on the showroom floor they would sell so quick. I'm done daydreaming about other manufacturers making a 350. Until I see an actual bike in a dealership, I'm a KTM guy. Even if Triumph puts one out, I sure wont be buying the first generation of it seeing the issues guys are having with their 450s

Smith246 wrote:
I've been a long time fan and owned every generation 350 and loved them all but just getting a bit stale with ktm.Just ticked over 10hrs...

I've been a long time fan and owned every generation 350 and loved them all but just getting a bit stale with ktm.

Just ticked over 10hrs on my TF450 and loving it so far. Definitely a bit scared about some of the stories I am hearing but. Don't think it will be a bike I'm confident to put 100hrs plus on.

I hope you got a good one. I say that in all seriousness not being a sarcastic prick. My buddy has the new Triumph 450 and...

I hope you got a good one. I say that in all seriousness not being a sarcastic prick. My buddy has the new Triumph 450 and loved it, coming off his '24 KTM. Well, I'm pretty sure he's in the middle of Triumph giving him a new motor right now. 

I'd be lying if I said I'm not a little scared with all the stories I've heard but I'm a sucker for getting first year models, ill never learn 🤦‍♂️

Do you know what happened to your friends bike?

1
Rene39
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6/10/2025 7:40am

Zacko said on last weeks moto 60 show that Beta was releasing a new model that people wouldn't see coming very soon. Not sure if that had been mentioned or released yet? 

GPrider
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6/10/2025 7:43am
Rene39 wrote:
Zacko said on last weeks moto 60 show that Beta was releasing a new model that people wouldn't see coming very soon. Not sure if that...

Zacko said on last weeks moto 60 show that Beta was releasing a new model that people wouldn't see coming very soon. Not sure if that had been mentioned or released yet? 

yes they did, a Beta 350, but it's a 2 stroke. Yesterday I think

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6/10/2025 7:54am
Smith246 wrote:
I've been a long time fan and owned every generation 350 and loved them all but just getting a bit stale with ktm.Just ticked over 10hrs...

I've been a long time fan and owned every generation 350 and loved them all but just getting a bit stale with ktm.

Just ticked over 10hrs on my TF450 and loving it so far. Definitely a bit scared about some of the stories I am hearing but. Don't think it will be a bike I'm confident to put 100hrs plus on.

I hope you got a good one. I say that in all seriousness not being a sarcastic prick. My buddy has the new Triumph 450 and...

I hope you got a good one. I say that in all seriousness not being a sarcastic prick. My buddy has the new Triumph 450 and loved it, coming off his '24 KTM. Well, I'm pretty sure he's in the middle of Triumph giving him a new motor right now. 

Smith246 wrote:
I'd be lying if I said I'm not a little scared with all the stories I've heard but I'm a sucker for getting first year models...

I'd be lying if I said I'm not a little scared with all the stories I've heard but I'm a sucker for getting first year models, ill never learn 🤦‍♂️

Do you know what happened to your friends bike?

If you're 10hrs into your Triumph with no issues you're doing better than him. So almost right off the rip he had to bring it in for them to reflash the ECU because it wasn't running right. Not too big of a deal, right? But then when he did his first oil change there was giant chunks of metal. Last I heard, they were giving him a new motor.

outerlimits
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6/10/2025 8:03am

Kawi needs to be the one.  Based on completely shitting the bed with this whole "we heard you" crap with a new 2-stroke and then nothing, they need to step up.  Either that or they need to continue to take a beating on slow 450's and no 2-stroke until morale improves.

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OldManIdaho
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6/10/2025 8:07am

I would love to see Yamaha make a 350 and I'd be first in line to buy one. But...the issue isn't whether Yamaha would sell every 350 they made. They would. The question, especially for a giant manufacturer like Yamaha, is this:  would spending millions upon millions of dollars developing a completely new motor and platform create a sufficient return on those development dollars after netting out the cannibalized sales of the 450's and the 250's. If you sell a bunch of 350's, but it cuts a chunk out of those other bikes, it may not make fiscal sense. Again, I think they should and it would be a homerun, but the bean counters at the corporate level have to say yes. Easier said than done.

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Spoonguy
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6/10/2025 8:39am

Manufacturers need a way to get more people interested in riding not a different version of the same product they already sell. A 350 Yamaha, Suzuki, whatever would be great, but what percentage of sales would it actually increase for these global multi-billion-dollar corporations compared to a new or improved 200-350 street/commuter to sell in Asia? The slice of pie dirt bikes bring to these makers is tiny and is as much for brand awareness and image as it is profit. A BMW rep told me once they build motorcycles because Mercedes builds trucks, it was for the image of sportiness bikes brought to the brand. Adding a new version of the same thing will not bring many more riders to the sport, and from what I know manufacturers don't give a shit about that anyway as long as they are making big profits on SxS , ATVs, street bikes, and all their other products. Think about it, the makers spend nothing on bike trails and riding areas yet spend huge on ATV riding areas. The opposite is true on the racing front, they spend huge on motorcycle racing, very little on ATV racing. The bikes are for brand awareness and image mostly, not to encourage participation or grow the sport.

McG194
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6/10/2025 8:39am

Suzuki would actually be a good choice. Most manufacturers are scared of stealing sales from their 250 or 450 and Suzuki could come out with an all-new model finally with e-start and drop the other 2 models and lube up the cash register. 

Kind of strange that a manufacturer never decides to hit em' where they aint'. Suzuki is noncompetitive in the motocross world, why not specialize in vet off road racers in the 350 class, offer good contingency and the lines would be filled with yellow. 

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6/10/2025 8:44am
I would love to see Yamaha make a 350 and I'd be first in line to buy one. But...the issue isn't whether Yamaha would sell every...

I would love to see Yamaha make a 350 and I'd be first in line to buy one. But...the issue isn't whether Yamaha would sell every 350 they made. They would. The question, especially for a giant manufacturer like Yamaha, is this:  would spending millions upon millions of dollars developing a completely new motor and platform create a sufficient return on those development dollars after netting out the cannibalized sales of the 450's and the 250's. If you sell a bunch of 350's, but it cuts a chunk out of those other bikes, it may not make fiscal sense. Again, I think they should and it would be a homerun, but the bean counters at the corporate level have to say yes. Easier said than done.

Yup. And thats why I said I'm done hoping and dreaming of a Blu Cru 350. I'll believe it when I see it. I imagine they're doing so well with their current stable of bikes what's their incentive to change. I dont know what its like in your area but it seems like everyone is BluCru where I ride. The Yamaha 250 has been amazing, for what seems like, forever. And everyone loves the new 450. Four of my buddies all have new Yamaha 450's and rave about them. 

McG194
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6/10/2025 8:56am

A completely off the wall option that I brought up to Keefer after his CRF old and new test is an 08 CRF450 frame with Honda's old air cooled 350 engine. He thought it would be an interesting bike and it has a ton of benefits. 

As reliable and require as much maintenance as a shovel. 

You absolutely wouldn't need or want to have the latest bleeding edge parts on it. The bike could probably go 7-10 years without a major update. 

You wouldn't steal sales from the motocross line. It could be a great trail bike with the ability to ride practice days on the track. 

Most of all it would be easy to ride. 

The biggest problem would be getting the weight to a livable number. 

BobPA
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6/10/2025 9:15am
burn1986 wrote:

There’s a reason KTM went broke. Just sayin

And the 350 ain't it

7
6/10/2025 9:46am
I would love to see Yamaha make a 350 and I'd be first in line to buy one. But...the issue isn't whether Yamaha would sell every...

I would love to see Yamaha make a 350 and I'd be first in line to buy one. But...the issue isn't whether Yamaha would sell every 350 they made. They would. The question, especially for a giant manufacturer like Yamaha, is this:  would spending millions upon millions of dollars developing a completely new motor and platform create a sufficient return on those development dollars after netting out the cannibalized sales of the 450's and the 250's. If you sell a bunch of 350's, but it cuts a chunk out of those other bikes, it may not make fiscal sense. Again, I think they should and it would be a homerun, but the bean counters at the corporate level have to say yes. Easier said than done.

This does seem like the only theory that holds any water but the caveat that makes it still not make sense to me is that the riders who make up the largest portion of the 350 market are vet riders. I hear a lot about all of these manufacturers investing in dirt bikes to capture customers and drive sales in other segments so I would think that they would want to be building a bike that the vet guys who are a little older, have a little more money, and are more likely to buy a street bike or a utility vehicle are clamoring for. For example, I've been thinking about buying an adventure bike and maybe if I was racing a YZ350F instead of a 350 SX-F I'd be more likely to buy a Tenere than an 1190 Adventure. Just seems like it would be worth it to bite the bullet on those R&D costs knowing what the demand is like and how brand loyalties can form.

AMetts
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6/10/2025 9:57am
I would love to see Yamaha make a 350 and I'd be first in line to buy one. But...the issue isn't whether Yamaha would sell every...

I would love to see Yamaha make a 350 and I'd be first in line to buy one. But...the issue isn't whether Yamaha would sell every 350 they made. They would. The question, especially for a giant manufacturer like Yamaha, is this:  would spending millions upon millions of dollars developing a completely new motor and platform create a sufficient return on those development dollars after netting out the cannibalized sales of the 450's and the 250's. If you sell a bunch of 350's, but it cuts a chunk out of those other bikes, it may not make fiscal sense. Again, I think they should and it would be a homerun, but the bean counters at the corporate level have to say yes. Easier said than done.

I agree although I don't think it would be a huge outlay in engineering and development as much as a new engine would be. It would share 85% of the motor with the 250 the same way the KTMs do, but then obviously you have to figure out the airbox, mapping and all that new stuff. 

Its also harder to market bikes that none of your pro riders will be racing except for the two man GNCC team. So they will be spending a lot more money on other advertising and marketing as well. 

burn1986
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6/10/2025 3:15pm
BobPA wrote:

And the 350 ain't it

Maybe not. I’m sore that these things are so freakin expensive, and only gonna get more expensive.

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burn1986
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6/10/2025 3:16pm
McG194 wrote:

Because you should own your statement. 

I apologize for being a jerk. I was pretty negative this morning. ✌️

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Smith246
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6/10/2025 4:12pm
I hope you got a good one. I say that in all seriousness not being a sarcastic prick. My buddy has the new Triumph 450 and...

I hope you got a good one. I say that in all seriousness not being a sarcastic prick. My buddy has the new Triumph 450 and loved it, coming off his '24 KTM. Well, I'm pretty sure he's in the middle of Triumph giving him a new motor right now. 

Smith246 wrote:
I'd be lying if I said I'm not a little scared with all the stories I've heard but I'm a sucker for getting first year models...

I'd be lying if I said I'm not a little scared with all the stories I've heard but I'm a sucker for getting first year models, ill never learn 🤦‍♂️

Do you know what happened to your friends bike?

If you're 10hrs into your Triumph with no issues you're doing better than him. So almost right off the rip he had to bring it in...

If you're 10hrs into your Triumph with no issues you're doing better than him. So almost right off the rip he had to bring it in for them to reflash the ECU because it wasn't running right. Not too big of a deal, right? But then when he did his first oil change there was giant chunks of metal. Last I heard, they were giving him a new motor.

Yeah my first few oil changes had a bit more junk on the screens than I'm used to. Not so much metal but weird swath like stuff and red and blue coloured shit. I'll buy another ktm350 at the drop of a hat if something major happens to the TF.

Hope your buddy gets his bike sorted cos they really are a great bike to ride. The engine is definitely not a 350 but it has a very similar style of power to a 350 which suits me perfectly.  

6/10/2025 5:23pm
How many do they the KTM Group sell?If say Yamaha were to step up, how many could they steal from the KTM group, and how many...

How many do they the KTM Group sell?

If say Yamaha were to step up, how many could they steal from the KTM group, and how many could they entice from their current clientele, or other brands?

Smith246 wrote:
I don't know exact numbers but I have heard it's one there best selling bikes.I think with ktm's current situation now would be the best time...

I don't know exact numbers but I have heard it's one there best selling bikes.

I think with ktm's current situation now would be the best time for another manufacturer to jump in with a 350.

Just in my small group of riding buddies 4 of them would buy a yz350 if they made one.

We were just having this conversation at the track on Sun. Three of my buddies bought new Yamaha 450's and love them but I'm allset with...

We were just having this conversation at the track on Sun. Three of my buddies bought new Yamaha 450's and love them but I'm allset with getting back on a 450. Yamaha couldnt even keep a 350 on the showroom floor they would sell so quick. I'm done daydreaming about other manufacturers making a 350. Until I see an actual bike in a dealership, I'm a KTM guy. Even if Triumph puts one out, I sure wont be buying the first generation of it seeing the issues guys are having with their 450s

So three of your 450 buddies would buy a Yamaha 350, that's my point, Yamaha would have sold 3 less 450,s.

What's in it for Yamaha?

PNWMXer
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6/10/2025 5:37pm
Smith246 wrote:
I don't know exact numbers but I have heard it's one there best selling bikes.I think with ktm's current situation now would be the best time...

I don't know exact numbers but I have heard it's one there best selling bikes.

I think with ktm's current situation now would be the best time for another manufacturer to jump in with a 350.

Just in my small group of riding buddies 4 of them would buy a yz350 if they made one.

We were just having this conversation at the track on Sun. Three of my buddies bought new Yamaha 450's and love them but I'm allset with...

We were just having this conversation at the track on Sun. Three of my buddies bought new Yamaha 450's and love them but I'm allset with getting back on a 450. Yamaha couldnt even keep a 350 on the showroom floor they would sell so quick. I'm done daydreaming about other manufacturers making a 350. Until I see an actual bike in a dealership, I'm a KTM guy. Even if Triumph puts one out, I sure wont be buying the first generation of it seeing the issues guys are having with their 450s

So three of your 450 buddies would buy a Yamaha 350, that's my point, Yamaha would have sold 3 less 450,s.

What's in it for Yamaha?

While your point is absolutely valid, the other question is “how many Honda/kawasaki/suzuki 450 riders will go blue because we offer a 350, they don’t, and those riders don’t want to go KTM because of the current drama?”

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Smith246
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6/10/2025 5:51pm
We were just having this conversation at the track on Sun. Three of my buddies bought new Yamaha 450's and love them but I'm allset with...

We were just having this conversation at the track on Sun. Three of my buddies bought new Yamaha 450's and love them but I'm allset with getting back on a 450. Yamaha couldnt even keep a 350 on the showroom floor they would sell so quick. I'm done daydreaming about other manufacturers making a 350. Until I see an actual bike in a dealership, I'm a KTM guy. Even if Triumph puts one out, I sure wont be buying the first generation of it seeing the issues guys are having with their 450s

So three of your 450 buddies would buy a Yamaha 350, that's my point, Yamaha would have sold 3 less 450,s.

What's in it for Yamaha?

PNWMXer wrote:
While your point is absolutely valid, the other question is “how many Honda/kawasaki/suzuki 450 riders will go blue because we offer a 350, they don’t, and...

While your point is absolutely valid, the other question is “how many Honda/kawasaki/suzuki 450 riders will go blue because we offer a 350, they don’t, and those riders don’t want to go KTM because of the current drama?”

I completely agree with this, most of the people I know who would buy a yz350 don't currently own a yamaha so they would be gaining sales from other manufacturers. 

I do agree they would lose a few sales from there 250 and 450's but they will pick up many new customers who might also then purchase other yamaha products. 

I also don't see how it would cost them a ridiculous amount of money in R&D to build a 350. Like others have said before it will use the same frame and also possibly share alot of engine parts from the 250 aswell. But I could also be completely wrong and it does cost millions and millions of dollars.

2
Wandell
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6/10/2025 5:59pm

WE WILL SEE THEM RIGHT AFTER THE TOTALLY REDESIGNED ELECTRIC START HYBRIDPOWERED SUZUKI RMZ450

6/10/2025 6:31pm
I would love to see Yamaha make a 350 and I'd be first in line to buy one. But...the issue isn't whether Yamaha would sell every...

I would love to see Yamaha make a 350 and I'd be first in line to buy one. But...the issue isn't whether Yamaha would sell every 350 they made. They would. The question, especially for a giant manufacturer like Yamaha, is this:  would spending millions upon millions of dollars developing a completely new motor and platform create a sufficient return on those development dollars after netting out the cannibalized sales of the 450's and the 250's. If you sell a bunch of 350's, but it cuts a chunk out of those other bikes, it may not make fiscal sense. Again, I think they should and it would be a homerun, but the bean counters at the corporate level have to say yes. Easier said than done.

I'm a former Yamaha fan boy and former mutliple YZ450 owner, and current 350 owner.  I'll never buy another 450 again as long as there are reliable 350 options.  After working out the suspension (via spring conversion), I love the bike.  So Yamaha lost a customer.  Countless examples of my scenario.  Yamaha has no idea how much business they have lost to the KTM group.  If Yamaha offered a 350 tomorrow, I'd be in line at 6 am waiting to put money down on one.  They are losing business they don't even know they lost.  I'd estimate +90% of the guys I know on 350s came over from one of the Japanese 450s.

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6/10/2025 6:39pm

So three of your 450 buddies would buy a Yamaha 350, that's my point, Yamaha would have sold 3 less 450,s.

What's in it for Yamaha?

What's in it for Yamaha?  Simple, take market share from riders buying KTM group 350s.  Some people prefer Aluminum frames and the stock suspension is WAY better than the stock suspension on the KTM group bikes.  Yamaha is losing market share right now.  What's in it for them?  Get the market share back that they have lost.

1
McG194
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6/11/2025 6:26am
McG194 wrote:

Because you should own your statement. 

burn1986 wrote:

I apologize for being a jerk. I was pretty negative this morning. ✌️

Don't sweat it bro, we all show our asses every now and again. 🍺

And yes, new bike prices suck balls. 

2

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