Cooper Webb

NotCore
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3/31/2025 8:52am
zehn wrote:

How is it physically possible to have the fastest average lap time and not win? It isn’t unless you’re trimming data. It literally can’t be done 

Because average lap time is different from overall race time. 

This is 4th grade level math. This sport’s fan base embarrasses me 

Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could easily have faster ave lap time than the guy with the holeshot that wins wire to wire.

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MPJC
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3/31/2025 9:00am

Because average lap time is different from overall race time. 

This is 4th grade level math. This sport’s fan base embarrasses me 

NotCore wrote:
Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could...

Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could easily have faster ave lap time than the guy with the holeshot that wins wire to wire.

So are you basically saying that the stat for average lap time doesn't include the first lap? Then yes, that would make sense of how you could end up with a lower total time but a higher average lap time. If that's the case, then Not hillbilly could be right and I simply misunderstood how the stat was calculated. If that's the case, then I look like the dumbass. 

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DanielsenMX
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Maple Valley, WA US
3/31/2025 9:40am

After this round, I'm officially a Webb fan. He's a badass. I'm fully convinced now. 

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zehn
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3/31/2025 9:41am Edited Date/Time 3/31/2025 9:45am

This is 4th grade level math. This sport’s fan base embarrasses me 

NotCore wrote:
Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could...

Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could easily have faster ave lap time than the guy with the holeshot that wins wire to wire.

MPJC wrote:
So are you basically saying that the stat for average lap time doesn't include the first lap? Then yes, that would make sense of how you...

So are you basically saying that the stat for average lap time doesn't include the first lap? Then yes, that would make sense of how you could end up with a lower total time but a higher average lap time. If that's the case, then Not hillbilly could be right and I simply misunderstood how the stat was calculated. If that's the case, then I look like the dumbass. 

In which case they are trimming data which I suspected. They apparently cut off the first lap and calculate the average based only on fully completed laps which does give Chase a lower average lap time which gives this strange result of the guy finishing second having a faster average lap time 

The formula they use is (total elapsed time - first lap time) / (total laps completed - 1) = average lap time 

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1

The Shop

William
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3/31/2025 9:42am

This is 4th grade level math. This sport’s fan base embarrasses me 

NotCore wrote:
Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could...

Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could easily have faster ave lap time than the guy with the holeshot that wins wire to wire.

MPJC wrote:
So are you basically saying that the stat for average lap time doesn't include the first lap? Then yes, that would make sense of how you...

So are you basically saying that the stat for average lap time doesn't include the first lap? Then yes, that would make sense of how you could end up with a lower total time but a higher average lap time. If that's the case, then Not hillbilly could be right and I simply misunderstood how the stat was calculated. If that's the case, then I look like the dumbass. 

That's the only way the math would work for the scenario of higher average lap times for the winner compared to 2nd place.

But I think it's accurate to say that the first guy over the finish line of the last lap was the fastest. They certainly completed the entirety of the race in the least amount of time.

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3/31/2025 9:54am
William wrote:

A 2-time 450 SX Champion with 29 race wins is a next-level rider.

Yes next level........at sx. He's very fast ......at sx. No 450 mx titles and one outdoor win. Hes pretty far down the list of all time...

Yes next level........at sx. He's very fast ......at sx. No 450 mx titles and one outdoor win. Hes pretty far down the list of all time greats because of that

William wrote:

I thought it was obvious that the focus is SX.

I agree, he's an all timer indoors. Chase is my guy but I fully expect Coop to seal the deal and be a 3x champ and probably will have at least 30 wins after the season. 30 wins! 

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MPJC
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3/31/2025 9:56am
NotCore wrote:
Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could...

Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could easily have faster ave lap time than the guy with the holeshot that wins wire to wire.

MPJC wrote:
So are you basically saying that the stat for average lap time doesn't include the first lap? Then yes, that would make sense of how you...

So are you basically saying that the stat for average lap time doesn't include the first lap? Then yes, that would make sense of how you could end up with a lower total time but a higher average lap time. If that's the case, then Not hillbilly could be right and I simply misunderstood how the stat was calculated. If that's the case, then I look like the dumbass. 

zehn wrote:
In which case they are trimming data which I suspected. They apparently cut off the first lap and calculate the average based only on fully completed...

In which case they are trimming data which I suspected. They apparently cut off the first lap and calculate the average based only on fully completed laps which does give Chase a lower average lap time which gives this strange result of the guy finishing second having a faster average lap time 

The formula they use is (total elapsed time - first lap time) / (total laps completed - 1) = average lap time 

Makes sense - the first lap is thrown out of the calculation as anomalous. Sorry, not Hillbilly - that's on me for not knowing how they calculate the average. A lesson here is that sometimes if you think someone is saying something egregiously wrong, be open to the possibility that there's something you're not understanding. 

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Not hillbilly
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3/31/2025 10:11am
MPJC wrote:
So are you basically saying that the stat for average lap time doesn't include the first lap? Then yes, that would make sense of how you...

So are you basically saying that the stat for average lap time doesn't include the first lap? Then yes, that would make sense of how you could end up with a lower total time but a higher average lap time. If that's the case, then Not hillbilly could be right and I simply misunderstood how the stat was calculated. If that's the case, then I look like the dumbass. 

zehn wrote:
In which case they are trimming data which I suspected. They apparently cut off the first lap and calculate the average based only on fully completed...

In which case they are trimming data which I suspected. They apparently cut off the first lap and calculate the average based only on fully completed laps which does give Chase a lower average lap time which gives this strange result of the guy finishing second having a faster average lap time 

The formula they use is (total elapsed time - first lap time) / (total laps completed - 1) = average lap time 

MPJC wrote:
Makes sense - the first lap is thrown out of the calculation as anomalous. Sorry, not Hillbilly - that's on me for not knowing how they...

Makes sense - the first lap is thrown out of the calculation as anomalous. Sorry, not Hillbilly - that's on me for not knowing how they calculate the average. A lesson here is that sometimes if you think someone is saying something egregiously wrong, be open to the possibility that there's something you're not understanding. 

Thanks but no need to apologize to me, I just pulled kaidodragon’s stats.

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Gator724
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3/31/2025 10:18am
MOTO13 wrote:
During the race you could just see the yo-yo between Chase and Webb. Both were making small mistakes, nothing real major, but Webb is just soooooo...

During the race you could just see the yo-yo between Chase and Webb. Both were making small mistakes, nothing real major, but Webb is just soooooo damn good on capitalizing on these small errors with other riders. 

Only place chase really had him covered was the big rhythm he was doing. 

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tomlopez
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3/31/2025 10:25am
Magoofan wrote:
There are certain people who will never give Webb credit where it's due.      Facts, fastest race lap times, wins.....none of it matters to these...

There are certain people who will never give Webb credit where it's due.      Facts, fastest race lap times, wins.....none of it matters to these people. 

It's been going on pretty much his whole career.  ...and the guy is on the verge of a 3rd SX title.

Reason and logic is lost on many vital members. 

 

TogaSet wrote:
If Webb gets this one done that will be 3.  Very elite company.  Reed and Stewart and Tomac who are considered hall of famers all time...

If Webb gets this one done that will be 3.  Very elite company.  Reed and Stewart and Tomac who are considered hall of famers all time greats only have two. 

Herr Lich wrote:
This is why championships aren't necessarily the best metric. Tomac and Stew have almost double Webb's wins, and Reed has 16 more. I do not agree...

This is why championships aren't necessarily the best metric. Tomac and Stew have almost double Webb's wins, and Reed has 16 more. I do not agree, under any circumstances in any world, that Cooper Webb is on par with Tomac and Stew - or even Reed. 

This is like saying Tom Brady isn’t on Aaron Rodgers’ level because he doesn’t have as impressive of a highlight reel and is more methodical in his approach over the course of a season. The championships, Super Bowl MVPs, regular season MVPs, and All-Pro selections say otherwise. It’s not about the battle (a single game/race), it’s about the war (championships). While guys like Tomac and Stewart have had a knack for winning battles in very impressive fashion, they struggled more with putting these together over a 4 month period and avoiding mistakes. Webb picks his battles in order to give himself the best shot at winning the war. Keep in mind that he was the only dude to make things interesting with Jett last year.

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theraptur712
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3/31/2025 11:02am

Because average lap time is different from overall race time. 

This is 4th grade level math. This sport’s fan base embarrasses me 

NotCore wrote:
Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could...

Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could easily have faster ave lap time than the guy with the holeshot that wins wire to wire.

Technically that would trimming data if you DON'T count that. Good point though.

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Johnny Ringo
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3/31/2025 11:31am

Wait till he goes 3-1 at Pala

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Press516
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3/31/2025 12:07pm
NotCore wrote:
Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could...

Careful, gate drop to initial finish line is not included in ave lap time.  So, if you crash in first turn, and finish second, you could easily have faster ave lap time than the guy with the holeshot that wins wire to wire.

MPJC wrote:
So are you basically saying that the stat for average lap time doesn't include the first lap? Then yes, that would make sense of how you...

So are you basically saying that the stat for average lap time doesn't include the first lap? Then yes, that would make sense of how you could end up with a lower total time but a higher average lap time. If that's the case, then Not hillbilly could be right and I simply misunderstood how the stat was calculated. If that's the case, then I look like the dumbass. 

zehn wrote:
In which case they are trimming data which I suspected. They apparently cut off the first lap and calculate the average based only on fully completed...

In which case they are trimming data which I suspected. They apparently cut off the first lap and calculate the average based only on fully completed laps which does give Chase a lower average lap time which gives this strange result of the guy finishing second having a faster average lap time 

The formula they use is (total elapsed time - first lap time) / (total laps completed - 1) = average lap time 

The distance between the gate and the finish line on the first lap does not equal the distance of a race "lap", therefor to include it in an average lap time would skew the data drastically.  So avg lap time includes only completed full race laps.  It's still an excellent measure of speed.  But yes, the guy that starts 7th and catches the leader will likely have a faster avg lap than the guy that holeshots and wins.



 

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olds cool
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3/31/2025 12:13pm

The mental gymnastics and creative math (is this the “new math” that’s being taught in the schools now?) going on to throw shade on a 2X (and probably 3X here soon) SX champ is strong in this one.  🤔🤦

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Magoofan
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3/31/2025 12:42pm

Wonder what Ian is thinkin right then.....

 

image 1426
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3/31/2025 12:48pm

I thought Sexton had the race in the bag, great job by Cooper

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Not hillbilly
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3/31/2025 1:26pm
olds cool wrote:
The mental gymnastics and creative math (is this the “new math” that’s being taught in the schools now?) going on to throw shade on a 2X...

The mental gymnastics and creative math (is this the “new math” that’s being taught in the schools now?) going on to throw shade on a 2X (and probably 3X here soon) SX champ is strong in this one.  🤔🤦

No shade, just the facts, jack. When the stopwatch is involved, one guy is slightly faster. But he apparently can’t beat Webb.

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Gator724
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3/31/2025 1:26pm

Wait till he goes 3-1 at Pala

Something tells me he's gonna be better in outdoors this year. 

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Herr Lich
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3/31/2025 1:32pm

Wait till he goes 3-1 at Pala

Gator724 wrote:

Something tells me he's gonna be better in outdoors this year. 

If he shows up, and doesn't pull out after a couple of rounds, he'll be better than he has been previously.

But not better than Jett, Sexton, Hunter, Eli, AP, Prado, El Viejo, J Coop and Ferrandis.  Solid 10-10s. 

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TogaSet
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3/31/2025 2:31pm
Magoofan wrote:
Wonder what Ian is thinkin right then..... 

Wonder what Ian is thinkin right then.....

 

image 1426

“ Not today bud “. 
 Bad ass pic 

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1
3/31/2025 5:59pm

Wait till he goes 3-1 at Pala

Gator724 wrote:

Something tells me he's gonna be better in outdoors this year. 

Herr Lich wrote:
If he shows up, and doesn't pull out after a couple of rounds, he'll be better than he has been previously.But not better than Jett, Sexton...

If he shows up, and doesn't pull out after a couple of rounds, he'll be better than he has been previously.

But not better than Jett, Sexton, Hunter, Eli, AP, Prado, El Viejo, J Coop and Ferrandis.  Solid 10-10s. 

Every year he wins a sx title or is really challenging for it we hear the same thing. "I think he's going to surprise you outdoors this summer." He's almost 30yrs old and in his 9th season on a 450. We've had a big enough sample to know what he is outdoors. He a top 5 guy on good days. He's not a threat to win races

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NotCore
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4/1/2025 12:15pm
Every year he wins a sx title or is really challenging for it we hear the same thing. "I think he's going to surprise you outdoors...

Every year he wins a sx title or is really challenging for it we hear the same thing. "I think he's going to surprise you outdoors this summer." He's almost 30yrs old and in his 9th season on a 450. We've had a big enough sample to know what he is outdoors. He a top 5 guy on good days. He's not a threat to win races

Same was said about Chad Reed...until he won the outdoors in 2009.

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Not hillbilly
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4/1/2025 12:55pm
Every year he wins a sx title or is really challenging for it we hear the same thing. "I think he's going to surprise you outdoors...

Every year he wins a sx title or is really challenging for it we hear the same thing. "I think he's going to surprise you outdoors this summer." He's almost 30yrs old and in his 9th season on a 450. We've had a big enough sample to know what he is outdoors. He a top 5 guy on good days. He's not a threat to win races

NotCore wrote:

Same was said about Chad Reed...until he won the outdoors in 2009.

Chad Reed? The dude who finished second in the 250 World Championship in 2001? Someone was saying he couldn’t race outdoors?

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NotCore
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4/1/2025 2:01pm
Every year he wins a sx title or is really challenging for it we hear the same thing. "I think he's going to surprise you outdoors...

Every year he wins a sx title or is really challenging for it we hear the same thing. "I think he's going to surprise you outdoors this summer." He's almost 30yrs old and in his 9th season on a 450. We've had a big enough sample to know what he is outdoors. He a top 5 guy on good days. He's not a threat to win races

NotCore wrote:

Same was said about Chad Reed...until he won the outdoors in 2009.

Chad Reed? The dude who finished second in the 250 World Championship in 2001? Someone was saying he couldn’t race outdoors?

Thanks for highlighting another parallel: Cooper Webb won the 2016 AMA Motocross championship too.

 

My point being its simply ridiculous to rule out a top rider from a possible championship run when they are healthy, comfortable, motivated, and in contention. 

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motomike137
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4/1/2025 2:13pm
NotCore wrote:

Same was said about Chad Reed...until he won the outdoors in 2009.

Chad Reed? The dude who finished second in the 250 World Championship in 2001? Someone was saying he couldn’t race outdoors?

NotCore wrote:
Thanks for highlighting another parallel: Cooper Webb won the 2016 AMA Motocross championship too. My point being its simply ridiculous to rule out a top rider from...

Thanks for highlighting another parallel: Cooper Webb won the 2016 AMA Motocross championship too.

 

My point being its simply ridiculous to rule out a top rider from a possible championship run when they are healthy, comfortable, motivated, and in contention. 

Webb was a helluva outdoor rider on the 250 once he put his mind to it. He ran down Herlings at that GP as well the one year. Maybe he will have it in him outdoors this year. He and that Starr 450 seem pretty meshed up Smile . Imagine if Coop pulls the tri-fecta this year. People's heads would explode lol.

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Herr Lich
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4/1/2025 7:58pm
Every year he wins a sx title or is really challenging for it we hear the same thing. "I think he's going to surprise you outdoors...

Every year he wins a sx title or is really challenging for it we hear the same thing. "I think he's going to surprise you outdoors this summer." He's almost 30yrs old and in his 9th season on a 450. We've had a big enough sample to know what he is outdoors. He a top 5 guy on good days. He's not a threat to win races

NotCore wrote:

Same was said about Chad Reed...until he won the outdoors in 2009.

Chad Reed was a much better outdoors rider than Cooper Webb was or is. 

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Herr Lich
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4/1/2025 8:00pm

Chad Reed? The dude who finished second in the 250 World Championship in 2001? Someone was saying he couldn’t race outdoors?

NotCore wrote:
Thanks for highlighting another parallel: Cooper Webb won the 2016 AMA Motocross championship too. My point being its simply ridiculous to rule out a top rider from...

Thanks for highlighting another parallel: Cooper Webb won the 2016 AMA Motocross championship too.

 

My point being its simply ridiculous to rule out a top rider from a possible championship run when they are healthy, comfortable, motivated, and in contention. 

Webb was a helluva outdoor rider on the 250 once he put his mind to it. He ran down Herlings at that GP as well the...

Webb was a helluva outdoor rider on the 250 once he put his mind to it. He ran down Herlings at that GP as well the one year. Maybe he will have it in him outdoors this year. He and that Starr 450 seem pretty meshed up Smile . Imagine if Coop pulls the tri-fecta this year. People's heads would explode lol.

This is always the go-to on Webb - the Herlings race. If you put Jeffrey Herlings against Cooper Webb in 450 MX Herlings would beat him 100 per cent of the time, provided he doesn't crash. 

Webb is not anywhere near on the same level outdoors as he is indoors. 

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ThatOneMXGuy
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4/1/2025 8:02pm

If he’s on you with less than 5 minutes left, there’s a 99% chance you’re losing. 

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Herr Lich
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4/1/2025 8:04pm
NotCore wrote:

Same was said about Chad Reed...until he won the outdoors in 2009.

Chad Reed? The dude who finished second in the 250 World Championship in 2001? Someone was saying he couldn’t race outdoors?

NotCore wrote:
Thanks for highlighting another parallel: Cooper Webb won the 2016 AMA Motocross championship too. My point being its simply ridiculous to rule out a top rider from...

Thanks for highlighting another parallel: Cooper Webb won the 2016 AMA Motocross championship too.

 

My point being its simply ridiculous to rule out a top rider from a possible championship run when they are healthy, comfortable, motivated, and in contention. 

It's not at all ridiculous. Just because he won the 2016 250 MX championship doesn't mean that necessarily translates into 450 outdoors. For all you Webb deepthroaters, Webb himself says he's not as good outdoors and also says the speed in MX scares him. He will not win a single outdoors race this year unless all the top players take themselves out, or have mechanicals. 

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