Deposit on new Ducati, anybody done it, planning on it

My local dealer is, they posted it on FB yesterday I believe.

I'm not willing to be a guinea pig, but I will be watching closely. I am really intrigued by the desmodromic valvetrain.

Look forward to seeing them in person.  Other than simply being unique, I'm not sure the desmo valve train on a 450 will benefit 99% of owners. Just listen at the track the RPM range of most 450. Sound more like John Deere tractors than screaming engines. Tomac or Barcia might benefit!

What exactly is the benefit of a desmo valve train? 

There is no concern over valve float when revving the motor to the moon with their design.

The Desmo valve train is going to change the game

Positive control of the valves both opening and closing. Helps at high RPMs. That's my limited understanding anyway.

Official US price is $11 495, unveiling of the production version next Thursday.

$150 more than KTM, $500 more than Triumph 

First deliveries scheduled for June in Europe, July in the US at selected dealers.

Desmo can rev to the moon or provide meatier powerband, the latter should be really useful for the desmo 250.

Basically you have another cam and rocker that controls the closing of the valve vs a spring. 

Ducati has actually went away from Desmodromic valves on a lot of their newer engines, its not really the advantage it was in the 1950s when Ducati started using it as metallurgy has improved so much that valve springs arent a weak link anymore. 

I think the first Desmo valvetrain motor was in like 1900 or something. 

Well if anyone can put that valvetrain to the test....its Barcia.

I’m first on the list at my local Ducati dealer. April 3rd is when the production bike photos and specs are released.

Barcia would love it!

Does the Desmodromic system have less drag? It takes a surprising amount of HP to compress the stiff springs required for high RPM.

In theory yes, but a spring valvetrain returns that energy back in to the system as it springs back so its kind of a wash. 

The valve springs are not the limit on RPMs these days anyways, If we see the Ducati has an even more square bore than other 450s they could in theory up their RPMs but just adding Desmo valves wont allow a higher revving engine. 

AMetts has it pretty spot on.

Yes, valve springs present a 'force' to compress, but, a Desmo has the extra Rockers (moving weight takes force / energy) , their pivot points, and the interface between the closing rocker and closing shims . So, as he wrote, it's a bit of a 'wash'.

If an engine was to use ultra high revs - well, yes indeed, a Desmo system will have better valve control and thus, access to having higher revs, far more safely than a valve spring. But, valve Springs are way past what they were even just a decade or two ago.

I'd be very surprised if Ducati go with much more of a Bore / Stroke ratio than what is used now on 450s. Perhaps they might go as far as say, a 350s  ( that's somewhere around the 58mm mark, I think?) , but really, 450s have No Problem with having far more potential for power than even the Best Riders in the World, in the dirt.

But, you never know - the Hypermotard 698 ( well, it's 659cc) has a Bore of 116mm, stroke of 62.4mm ( a tad shorter than many 450s! ) , so,  it has a B/S ratio of 1.87 approx to 1 - it's wildly different to the 102 x 84.5mm KTM 690, that's for sure!

So perhaps they might go 'hog wild', but I doubt it.

It will be interesting to see if  they Do go a bit extreme with the 250. The later KTM group 250s use the MotoGP Stroke limit ( I think that's it ) currently in use, of 48.5mm, and to be retained in the coming '850' era, which has reduced the bore max from 81mm to 75mm. I can't recall exactly what the stroke was on the Ducati MotoGP bikes in the earlier 997/998 /999 ? cc era of MotoGP, but it was a shorter stroke than what it is now. So, they have experience / notes with regards to that.

Perhaps they will go ballistic with the 250 Engines Bore / Stroke ratio? Though, once again, tractability / manageability is Key on the dirt. 

Interesting times, for sure

I'm trying to persuade my Ducati Engineer and 'Grey' Importer mate to buy a 450, so I can get to have a putter on it, but, he swears he won't ride a 4t on the dirt. That comes from when 250Fs weren't anything that special, and Not how they have been for quite some time though. I think if I can get him to try a current 250F, he might just get the new Ducati 250. He's always preferred 125 and 250 2ts over 4ts, even though he has myriad 888s, 916s, 999s,  1098s. 1198s, and V4s. 

Their road homologated Desmosedici RR had a 86 mm × 42.56 mm 989cc V4. Back in 2007 when 197 hp was a big deal! It's supposed to be identical engine dimensions to the GP6.

Then their MotoGP 800cc was 81 mm x 38.7 mm and actual 1000cc is 81 mm x 48.4 mm, all constrained by 81 mm bore limit.

Yup, 2.02 and 2.09 Bore stroke ratios are a bit 'out there' 😲 ( but still a bit less than what's been got up to with F!, at times, I think) .

My mate sold one, or was it a couple(?) of Desmocedicis when he was a Dealer, many moons ago. He had to deal with the "wrong coolant eff up", too......

 A few 'new to 'cedici" buyers are finding out just how much it costs to 'fix' that problem - if you can find the (major) parts required. Probably a near on 50/60K AUD fix, now. 

Not sure if he's got one hidden away, yet - he was looking for one a while back. I saw some extra covered bikes upstairs in his mezzanine a while back, but couldn't negotiate the stairs up to it, after an operation - forgot to ask him about it, since. then. I now can 'do' the stairs, so will check the new ' toys'  out, next time when I'm over there welding his tubular race car chassis.

In theory, couldn't they also use a more aggressive ramp ratio to open the valves sooner and leave them open longer than you could with springs? I know that's essentially the same thing as valve float but there's the speed factor along with the rate of change in the cam profile. With the Desmo system, you could theoretically have a steeper angle and create more power even at lower RPM, if that's what you're trying to achieve. 

It's essentially benefit that many others (including Koenigsegg) have been pursuing with pneumatic valve actuators right?

That is what I have explained in ( a few) other threads here.

Go looking on Cycle Wolrd's site for Kevin Cameron's  words on the potential / real advantages  that  Desmodromics can provide - it's far from just being "more revs". 

Dealer network should be interesing.

It will be interesting to see if Ducati adjusts their US price now that they've been slapped with 20% tariff on the eve of their world premiere reveal.

It's likely to increase the sale price by 12-13%.

…early adopters are unpaid test riders.

I would wait a year…

Is it really 414lbs?

Some great info - especially about the springs “giving back”

But, you never know - the Hypermotard 698 ( well, it's 659cc) has a Bore of 116mm, stroke of 62.4mm ( a tad shorter than many 450s! ) , so,  it has a B/S ratio of 1.87 approx to 1 - it's wildly different to the 102 x 84.5mm KTM 690, that's for sure!

The current KTM690/Husky 701 has a bore/stroke of 105mm x 80mm I believe. (693cc). So in the direction, but still not the Ducati!!

I have one (Supermoto) that went 79.78hp on the local Dyno, when they were tuning the power commander. Good fun. With the counterbalancers (2?) it revs more like a twin - I’ve accidentally hit the rev limiter, and I’m not a “rever”! 

As many have mentioned - power from the current 450 MXrs isn’t really lacking for anyone. So more revs/power is probably little to no advantage 

There is a lot to like about that bike!

https://www.ducati.com/us/en/home/ducati-world-premiere

https://www.ducati.com/us/en/bikes/offroad/desmo450-mx

I put my deposit down a couple of weeks ago. 1st on the list at my local dealer.

From everything I've read 450s handle better at lower rpms. So I don't see the attraction beside looks.