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I have a '25 and weigh about 200lbs. Anyone over about 180 lbs. or so is going to have issues with setup both front and rear. The fork and shock springs are too soft. With regard to sag, everyone states their weight, but you have to add about 20lbs for gear...
1. I can obtain a 105 mm sag with a 5.6 rear spring with about 10mm preload. What is misunderstood about sag and preload is you can obtain normal sag numbers with a lighter spring rate, but the amount of preload required will be over 10mm and will change the spring characteristics. It will be too stiff. If you have to preload the spring more than 10mm to obtain proper sag, you need a higher spring rate.
2. I have never heard anyone explain high speed compression damping in a relatable manner. After proper spring rate, the harshness you describe would likely best be addressed by opening (decreasing high speed damping) the high speed damper in very small increments and testing....Also, rebound is misunderstood... If you "slow down" the rebound, it will increase harshness because the shock will remain in a "packed" condition. By decreasing rebound damping you allow the spring to extend quicker between bumps and absorb them better (quicker). I reduce the rebound until I just start feeling a slight pitch down over jumps, an indication that the shock is rebounding at just the right speed...
3. The forks springs are too soft, so I took the advice of someone at MXA and put a .52 in just one side and now they're perfect. I think .52 in both legs would be too stiff for my weight. I tried the adding oil through the bleeder ports thing but that doesn't really take effect until late in the stroke...Not the answer. You can add a little more oil but it has to be done in conjunction with springs to get proper effect. You're welcome.
Probably just too rigid boot soles. Have u tried riding in a pair of sneakers? Waay less harshness in the rear subframe. Also, just remove some random bolts from the chassis( doesn't matter which ones)
Frame breaks in at 100 hrs then it's fine. Measure your wheelbase. Once it increases at least .25 inch your golden.
People also forget, shock rebound has a common bleed circuit with compression... so if you back the rebound clicker 3 clicks, it also backs out compression about 1 click relatively.
Quite complex
thanks for the reply FZ
curious what speed and type of riding your doing?
I am sure the rear spring is too soft for me at about 185 lbs naked. Its way too easy to crush this thing AND for sure the high speed damp is the biggest contributor to harshness on the square edged stuff. I am willing to try spring changes before shelling out money to the shim shuffler
However I do have an issue with what your saying here..
"What is misunderstood about sag and preload is you can obtain normal sag numbers with a lighter spring rate, but the amount of preload required will be over 10mm and will change the spring characteristics. It will be too stiff. "
Springs are linear in rate. A 5.2 takes more preload to get same sag as a 5.6 BUT from that point the 5.2 will still be a softer rate spring, not a stiffer
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Increasing preload on a lighter spring might make the initial ride feel stiffer, but it won't make it as stiff as a heavier spring. In fact, excessive preload can lead to a harsher ride and reduced shock performance over smaller bumps.
well whats interesting in the case of the 25 crf450 is with the light stock spring the harsh ride is reduced by more preload.
The ride is less harsh at 100mm sag than it is at 105mm sag. I suspect in this case we are simply starting in a less steep part of links curve at 100 mm sag
I am 160 pounds, on the 250, and the bike is SO much better with stiffer springs front and rear.
did you change the clicker and or high speed comp settiings after installing stiffer springs and if so where did ya end up?
Soft Springs and harshness applies to all brands not just CRF’s. Since the 1980’s All bikes have come with soft fork springs. Shock springs are typically set up for the average weight and riding ability riders in the 160 - 170 lb range.
After adjusting shock rider sag to get it in the 100-105MM range. I do not care how much the spring is compressed by the collar what I care about is How much is your bikes free sag? That tells you if the spring is in the correct range.
in the end what I care about is that my red bike feels more like my blue one
I was going to just change springs BUT I had the money so it all just went off the the wizard
I suspect I wont get time on the bike for at least a month. Will report when I get enough time on it to know
🤣 How much does Low Mass weigh??? Might be too low in the stroke. You cant make this stuff up, thats funny.
First ride today! Yeah, it’s harsh..
Last Moto bike was a -23 crf450, I’m 165 pounds A class speed and I always have my suspension built really stiff compared to stock.
Decided to try this completely stock to get a baseline, and damn it’s super hard right out of the box!
Haven’t ridden since October so the first ride was always gonna be a bitch, and yeah it was a handful.
I liked it but it’s sharp as a knife, probably the most powerful bike I’ve ridden on the bottom end, the seat is stiff as a board and for someone who just rides for fun, this bike might need some work
Try springing it for your weight, riding high 95-98 on the sag, and give it 10 hours. My 24 is really changing.
Sounds like my 1999 CR125 back in the day apart from powerful engine... That thing was slow too among all the things
OK soooooo.....
Suspension back from the shop (who I sent it too will remain secret for now). I want to give it a month of test time before I comment too much
one ride in so far. Hold up good, bottom resistance good, .......
BUT this thred is about the strange harsh feel in the rear of the new Honda over hard pack choppy ground. track just too soft to say on that yet,
btw for those interested, heres an example of a flexy frame and its surprising ability to compete with suspension action over small sharp edged bumps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ekXSqE4gNQ
Sorry if this is a re post. But the GB suspension is NIGHT AND DAY better than the stock set up. Super plush. Controlled bottoming without any harshness. Predictable. Excellent turn in. I'm sure the 23.5 clamps have helped. Overall the bike feels softer. Way more comfortable to ride. Handles braking bumps with minimal kick or feed back at the bars. I really love this bike now. And I hated it after my first ride. MXA was spot on when they said set up is everything on this bike. I gotta give props to GB. What he did with the suspension is just amazing.
Is it really that bad? I thought this 2025 bike was all the rage. I moved on from Honda after 15 years to green. Chassis feel on a rough track at the end of the day is amazing. I still want to ride this 25 Honda
Its still harsh yeah, I have like 3 hours on it now and only done some klickers and sag.
I had to reduce the sag in the rear so it would turn better and get some load on the front, I really like a sharp turning bike.
After that I had to give it a few clicks on the front to stop it from bottoming out all of the time, and it’s now great for turning and jumping, but it kills my hands..
But then again I’ve ridden like 4 times since October last year so I wouldn’t expect anything less, and I love everything else about it.
I think a revalve would probably be the best for the fork to keep it soft in the beginning and harder at the bottom, for some reason every stock bike I’ve ever owned is super harsh at the top and as soon as you get like 4” down the travel it’s soft as hell and just bottoms out.
Pit Row
I found a cheap fix to the stock 25 fork is this...
leave the comp clicker in stock setting
run the rebound clicker at only 2-5 clicks out from FULL HARD
Add about 50cc of oil to outer tubes
Yes I know these are strange settings but this fork comes waayyy too soft for just about anyone. These settings are easy to do and they work suprisingly well. Just upping the comp clicker makes it harsh. The extreem rebound setting of 3 out or so gives enough crossover compression to slow the forks roll usefully, and adding 50cc, yes that much, gives good bottom resist and avoids blow through at turn entrance in thick gooy or sand conditions yet is still reasonably plush in the hard pack chopp
OK sooo Ive had enough time on the re-valved suspension on this bike now to comment. Graeme Burroughs did the work. MUCH better!
Right out of the box it is balanced well, avoids bottom, the clickers make sense track to track, and the intense harshness out back is much improved. I can certainly recommend GB's work on this one.
In keeping with this threds original intent, how much of the harshness has been removed? Well I suppose hard to quantify but I would give it a number like 80%. A solid result.
I am now more convinced that what some of us are feeling on this bike IS a chassis issue that skilled suspension work can mitigate to a good level BUT not eliminate completely. The fact that Graeme was able to nix it as far as he did while maintaining stiff enough suspension to go fast on is testimony to his skill. AND click down a bit for slower guys and its even better.
My reference is the 25 yz450. I was able to bounce back n forth between the yz and the cr to get real time compare. I was surprised at how much better the honda got. Its close to the yz "comfort" now AND is better balanced than the stock YZ. Just a smidge of that character out back on the honda remains but now not so much a "harshness" but more like the feel is still there (only on the hard pack square edge stuff) but significantly softened. VERY Good job
I maintain however that honda doesnt quite have the chassis worked out to the level that the yamahas and the KX chassis do. There does seem to be a poorly controlled wiggle in the Honda chassis that is felt as a hardness in the rears action. GB proved that issue can be mostly overcome with suspension and I decided to keep the bike.
Thank GB!
ZERO....
curious about the 23.5 offsets clamps contribution to the feel you are experiencing. Did you get any time on bike with just the clamps? Or did ya do the clamps and the GB revalve at same time?
2025 CRF250r best suspension and handling for stock bike i ever ridden. Just set sag added little fast comp and added Yoshi full system with 49 sprocket. Been -24 450f Honda and this new bike feels nothing like it.
interesting
I see the new 450 as one of the best "handling" bikes Ive ridden AND one of the Worst suspended Ive ever ridden, AND the worst seat in MX history :0
I see the YZ as have one of the best suspensions Ive ridden BUT it overall handling is in question imo. It headshakes, it wants to standup in the rear, and it feels like a barge compared to the responsive light feel of the Honda
I separate suspension and handling into two different catagorys. Ive hed bikes that had great suspension BUT wacky overall handling.
I want to make a concession to some things Ive said above......
while I still suspect there may be a chassis issue with the honda I am not ready to say wothout a doubt
GB btw has been great. I text him with a question and he returns my texts in a timely manor and has advice that makes sense. How many suspension shops do you know that do that?!
He advises me that I should concentrate a more on adjusting rebounds, not compressions to put a finer edge on things. This makes sense and I so far have likley been moving in wrong direction with adjustments.
Perhaps Ive spoken too soon?
If it ever stops raining here in NY I will get more hard pack square edged testing in with more focus on rebound action and report back
Low mass were you the Thumpertalk YZF site asking about a mellower map for your YZ450F? Try this one and see what you think. The missing values are +10s.
I just put the 23.5 clamps on my 2023 250r that had the same nervous feeling in the bars. (but probably not as bad as the 450) While I've only ridden it twice so far, I can say that the clamps settle the front end and lessen the feedback through the bars. Now I feel like I can ride more aggressively without the fatigue. The suspension does feel more plush but I'm not sure if that's due to the offset or the split clamp design. Either way, cannot wait to ride it more!
Thanks dude
I will load that one into my phone as the "mx317" map
and give it a try
Thing is I actually like the way that motor spools up in the sand and the deep till power robbing gooy stuff. Its like a boat with huge motor, it jumps right up on plane and gets, where the other 450s feel labored and pulled down. However on the hard pack that Blue bike scares me ha.
Thanks Zero
Yea my friend has the older chassis and it wants to shake hard sometimes BUT the new chassis I believe is raked out about .2 degrees from the old one and so far I haven't gotten a wiggle out of it.
How much do you weigh and how fast are you? It feels really soft to me stock.
I hope you like it. It is a combination of other maps I tried and it really smooths out the bottom without neutering the mid and top.
6" tall 170lbs but im now Vet riders so maybe its soft for heavier or pro riders. I gone couple clicks harder on comp as suspension done couple hours of riding. Stock seat wasnt for me so I took seat from my old bike that has 15mm higher and harder foam.
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