Fixing SX. Has the time come for a reset?

Magoofan
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2/10/2025 9:24pm
shortty761 wrote:
If anything it’s time to move on to Electric Bikes.That’s right. We aren’t going back to 125’s, and we aren’t going to go to 350s.If anything...

If anything it’s time to move on to Electric Bikes.


That’s right. We aren’t going back to 125’s, and we aren’t going to go to 350s.


If anything, to make the sport safer, we have 2 electric bike classes.


Premiere class takes over the 450 class and the electric motors all have a preset maximum power output. The bike can only go so fast, however, it can be adjusted for different tracks and different terrain of course. If it’s deemed safer to turn the bikes power down, then of course, turn the power down to keep everyone in check.

We will be able to adjust the safety of the sport from race to race. Maybe things are starting to get a little out of control. Slow the bikes down. Maybe the riders are asking for more power. Give them a couple HP’s.


And 250 class will obviously just be a slower electric bike. It is what it is.


It’s the future, embrace is or get left behind.

Shirley....you jest....

Otherwise:

speechless-eddie-murphy-and-arsenio-hall-a9n53yo7f6ytw4m0-2280532012

 

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Magoofan
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2/10/2025 9:25pm
enketchum wrote:
Maybe we can put a lane next to the whoops that riders 11-20 get to take to save time so they can catch up to the...

Maybe we can put a lane next to the whoops that riders 11-20 get to take to save time so they can catch up to the rest of the pack.... a la Jeff Alessi 

Correction:   a la Huntah....

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msp332
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2/10/2025 9:27pm

The 10 fastest riders are never on the track at the same time because 250s get almost as much airtime as 450s, and winning on 250 earns more than 10th on 450. These are professionals - they follow the money.

More time on 450 coverage.

20-rider gate in football and baseball stadiums. 22 riders going 26 laps with 50s lap times never worked. Take the riders that end up lapped 3 times off before the first turn pileup.

endurox
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2/11/2025 9:07am

Some will disagree but the AMA, riders and Fled need to sit down and figure out how to slow down the bikes. i would suggest dumping all electronic aids, getting rid of the steel starting grids, adding intake restrictors (until  smaller displacement classes are in place). Move back towards as 125 class and the 250 class would be the premier class which would include 2 strokes. A way to slow down  both current classes is to bring the db level down 4 db. Airvests like they use in Rally racing should be mandatory. And stop manicuring the tracks as well as stop steam type rolliing the whoops. The tracks need to break in to slow the speeds. 

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The Shop

Team403
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2/11/2025 9:21am Edited Date/Time 2/11/2025 12:24pm

Seems like I hear a lot about providing jobs for riders and mechanics.  Is Feld in the business of job creation or putting on the best possible racing series? Im sorry but everyone of the premier class guys should be able to go the distance on the lead lap.  250 should be the proving grounds and not retirement home.😂

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2/11/2025 9:22am

Bring back 125's 2 strokes Only for 125 Class and 250F or 250 2-stroke for 250 Class in Supercross. Multiple things would happen: 

-The slower speed bikes will be safer and more fun to watch.
-Riders wont hang in the 125 class so long because they're so underpowered for their weight.
-2 strokes will be Great Again!
-The racing would be cheaper for the Teams to fund. (Bobby could hire 25 riders)
-MFG's can re-release 2 strokes and update the tech but still making it more affordable for racers to get back into the sport.

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Team403
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2/11/2025 9:27am

Anybody have sales data of 250f vs 450f ?  

2/11/2025 11:22am
Team403 wrote:
Every lap you clip the last place guy at the finish until you get to 10.  Less impact on track - more focus on leaders -...

Every lap you clip the last place guy at the finish until you get to 10.  Less impact on track - more focus on leaders - and safer..

lostboy819 wrote:
So when Jett or Tomac or any number of other top riders fall in the first corner and start last and then begin on one of...

So when Jett or Tomac or any number of other top riders fall in the first corner and start last and then begin on one of their charges to the front of the pack you want them clipped. now thats a stupid idea. lmao-crying-laughing 11

I can't remember the last time anyone un-lapped themselves in MX, so if they fall and lose enough time to get lapped on the opening lap(s)...

I can't remember the last time anyone un-lapped themselves in MX, so if they fall and lose enough time to get lapped on the opening lap(s), your race is pretty much already over.

But they can still score points so your argument has no merit. 

TooTallJason
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2/11/2025 12:04pm
lostboy819 wrote:
So when Jett or Tomac or any number of other top riders fall in the first corner and start last and then begin on one of...

So when Jett or Tomac or any number of other top riders fall in the first corner and start last and then begin on one of their charges to the front of the pack you want them clipped. now thats a stupid idea. lmao-crying-laughing 11

I can't remember the last time anyone un-lapped themselves in MX, so if they fall and lose enough time to get lapped on the opening lap(s)...

I can't remember the last time anyone un-lapped themselves in MX, so if they fall and lose enough time to get lapped on the opening lap(s), your race is pretty much already over.

lostboy819 wrote:

But they can still score points so your argument has no merit. 

Yeah but no one ever said that dudes who just start last get removed from the race either like your post either. I also am not arguing to remove lappers nor removing their ability to score points, so maybe learn to read better.

I still can't think of anyone to get lapped and get back "to the front of the pack" either. 

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2/11/2025 12:15pm Edited Date/Time 2/11/2025 12:15pm

But they still don't have to un-lap themselves or even make it back to the front of the pack to score points so their race isnt "pretty much over" 

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Herr Lich
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2/11/2025 1:34pm
scott_nz wrote:
The factories are not going to add another rider to run 12-20th ,  the reason they run so many 250 guys is they have a shot...

The factories are not going to add another rider to run 12-20th ,  the reason they run so many 250 guys is they have a shot at running up front and getting exposure 


The only way to stop this is to put the 250s in the tv less , and that means you have a lot of down time in 3 hours 

Yes, in terms of the 250 class the problems are all due to the incentives structure.  The two coasts thing means more main event exposure opportunities, which means high salaries for the top 250 class riders, which leads to sandbaggers like Old J Hampshire, Geriatric Smith, and so on. I don't believe in salary caps etc, so the only other option is aging out rules. The problem is no 250 team will be onboard with this because of the aforementioned incentives. They don't care if Hampshire is pushing his zimmer frame around the track if he can still win. 

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wr74
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2/11/2025 4:14pm Edited Date/Time 2/11/2025 4:17pm

I agree something needs to change.  The 250 class has turned into a nice pay cheque for the “not quite good enough” guys.  That was, and should not be, the intention.  The point out rule is clearly ineffectual.  Either make it bite, or just implement an age rule, or perhaps just max number of seasons in the class.  4 or 5 years and that’s it.


Make the premier class 250 works bikes.  Scrap the production rule.  The manufacturers won’t let it happen, as it will kill 450 sales, but something has to change.  The bikes are too capable for the tracks and more importantly, the human body.  The injuries to the major stars are not good for the sport.

The lower class, 250 with an effective stock rule.  Stock suspension, stock motors (pipe, ignition air box mods only, no mechanical motor mods).  I think if you do this you can keep 2 coasts, as non factory guys will have a chance.


Today the two 250 series’ is just stupid.  It’s just motocross’s version of welfare.  

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ACBraap
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2/11/2025 5:07pm
Team403 wrote:
Seems like I hear a lot about providing jobs for riders and mechanics.  Is Feld in the business of job creation or putting on the best...

Seems like I hear a lot about providing jobs for riders and mechanics.  Is Feld in the business of job creation or putting on the best possible racing series? Im sorry but everyone of the premier class guys should be able to go the distance on the lead lap.  250 should be the proving grounds and not retirement home.😂

Feld is in the business of making the most money they can for Feld. If a good show is a by product that's nice to have but not their first priority.  Rather than thinking of it as providing jobs for riders and mechanics, I'd think about it as getting more of the $ generated into the hands of the riders taking the risks to put themselves out there.

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Team403
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2/11/2025 5:53pm
Team403 wrote:
Seems like I hear a lot about providing jobs for riders and mechanics.  Is Feld in the business of job creation or putting on the best...

Seems like I hear a lot about providing jobs for riders and mechanics.  Is Feld in the business of job creation or putting on the best possible racing series? Im sorry but everyone of the premier class guys should be able to go the distance on the lead lap.  250 should be the proving grounds and not retirement home.😂

ACBraap wrote:
Feld is in the business of making the most money they can for Feld. If a good show is a by product that's nice to have...

Feld is in the business of making the most money they can for Feld. If a good show is a by product that's nice to have but not their first priority.  Rather than thinking of it as providing jobs for riders and mechanics, I'd think about it as getting more of the $ generated into the hands of the riders taking the risks to put themselves out there.

I don’t agree - you don’t sell $200 tickets for a shit performance - they are incentivized to produce.

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zehn
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2/11/2025 6:10pm

Ah yes the old 250 age rule, what a great idea. We’ve seen how amazingly that has turned out in the MXGP series

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cz2crf2wc
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2/11/2025 6:14pm
aees wrote:
Just put a timer on how much after you can befofe getting pulled of. 60 sec track, put 50 and then you get pulled off. That leaves...

Just put a timer on how much after you can befofe getting pulled of. 

60 sec track, put 50 and then you get pulled off. That leaves some margin. If they are lapping it's to late. Could be 5-6 riders leaders have to pass if they lap just after finish line. It's reactive, needs to be proactive. 

Top 10-12 from time qualification is protected and can't get pulled of. Will stop top riders that go down in first turn etc from being unnecessary victims. 

So if Jet and Sexton go down on the 1st lap then after the 2nd lap when they are in last you want to pull them ?????

Team403
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2/11/2025 6:29pm

Bring back hay bales 

Braaaphole
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2/11/2025 6:59pm

I've thought for a while they should have 3 classes with different sets of rules.

Have a rookie 250 class that's maybe split between east and west. Class is designated for kids racing their first 2 years. It's a spec class, so modifications are very limited to keep cost down. 

Then the veteran 250 class kinda the way it is now, but not split between coast.

450 class would be open to works bikes again and open rules for fuel

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KurtJ99
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2/11/2025 7:18pm
Flatliner wrote:
I still enjoy having an east and west,  not a fan of taking away factory rides. Fewer rides will almost always lead to less sponsorship money as...

I still enjoy having an east and west,  not a fan of taking away factory rides.

 

Fewer rides will almost always lead to less sponsorship money as well.

I like the excitement of seeing the new racers in the east race the first time. Like a mini A1. 
Would be good to have a one race allowance in West so if you get hurt at least you’ve got nearly a month to recover and race East. Not a lot of time but maybe enough to not throw away a whole season. Would create other problems like a crowded A1 but East is loaded this year. 

cz2crf2wc
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2/11/2025 8:59pm

What if  the east and west ran 7 races each, for a regional champ. then the top 10 or 12 of each ran a combined final 6 races to determine a single 250 champ???

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byke
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2/11/2025 9:07pm
Team403 wrote:
Every lap you clip the last place guy at the finish until you get to 10.  Less impact on track - more focus on leaders -...

Every lap you clip the last place guy at the finish until you get to 10.  Less impact on track - more focus on leaders - and safer..

lostboy819 wrote:
So when Jett or Tomac or any number of other top riders fall in the first corner and start last and then begin on one of...

So when Jett or Tomac or any number of other top riders fall in the first corner and start last and then begin on one of their charges to the front of the pack you want them clipped. now thats a stupid idea. lmao-crying-laughing 11

I can't remember the last time anyone un-lapped themselves in MX, so if they fall and lose enough time to get lapped on the opening lap(s)...

I can't remember the last time anyone un-lapped themselves in MX, so if they fall and lose enough time to get lapped on the opening lap(s), your race is pretty much already over.

It's not about unlapping yourself, it's about a top rider being in last and hypothetically getting the boot, when they would have ended up scoring some points, then those points making the difference between winning and losing a championship. Nobody wants that scenario, which means that what's actually happening is that people are trying to shape the rules to give them the results they want, but it's impossible, because each "new" idea is a sword that cuts both ways. The answer is to deal with the imperfections, because they're better than these things that have already come up five thousand times in the past. 

ACBraap
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2/11/2025 9:10pm
cz2crf2wc wrote:
What if  the east and west ran 7 races each, for a regional champ. then the top 10 or 12 of each ran a combined final...

What if  the east and west ran 7 races each, for a regional champ. then the top 10 or 12 of each ran a combined final 6 races to determine a single 250 champ???

So we're going up to 20 rounds total then?

cz2crf2wc
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2/11/2025 9:22pm
cz2crf2wc wrote:
What if  the east and west ran 7 races each, for a regional champ. then the top 10 or 12 of each ran a combined final...

What if  the east and west ran 7 races each, for a regional champ. then the top 10 or 12 of each ran a combined final 6 races to determine a single 250 champ???

ACBraap wrote:

So we're going up to 20 rounds total then?

Yes as we do now. We run 17 then 3 smx = 20 races

Cortami79
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2/12/2025 12:04am
zehn wrote:

Ah yes the old 250 age rule, what a great idea. We’ve seen how amazingly that has turned out in the MXGP series

Exactly. The list of really talented riders careers being over at the age of 23 is really long here in Europe. 

I don't see the point of 'fixing' this sport all the time. The amount of factory and factory supported rides in both classes is big. Last year we had a SX race in 450s with around 17-18 riders in the same lap. We have a few riders injured this year due to freak circumstances, that's unfortunately part of our sport. 

 

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philG
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2/12/2025 4:18am
zehn wrote:

Ah yes the old 250 age rule, what a great idea. We’ve seen how amazingly that has turned out in the MXGP series

It has, everyone in the 450 class is World Class. 

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motomike137
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2/12/2025 4:33am
philG wrote:
The current format of SX has been around for a long time.  For 40 years we have had a main class and a split feeder class. The...

The current format of SX has been around for a long time.  For 40 years we have had a main class and a split feeder class. 

The 250(or 125 as it was) class was never designed to be like it is now, it was a way for guys to get into 250 class, and the rules meant guys pointed out, and moved up by winning titles. 

Now we more factory guys in 250 than we do in 450, and no incentive for guys to move up. Its a cash cow that needs putting down before it bleeds the sport dry. Monet is tight, bike sales are through the floor and things need to change , not just from a financial point of view, but from a credibility and safety point of view. 

As Cooper Webb pointed out in his interview, guys getting lapped in the heats, means its going to be a big problem in the Mains , and it was. 

So here are the suggestions. 

Scrap the East/West and have one 250 class, the amount of factory guys in 250 is stupid, and 75% of them will never get a 450 ride, so what is the point of having so many ? 

We all love the shootouts, because we want to see the best riders every week, not half the guys in half the races. all the $$ is spent on rider salaries, bikes and material, and staff, for half of them to disappear without trace after 2 seasons. 

So instead of having 10 fast guys , and 10 decent privateers in the main, you have 20 of the best in the main.  

The flip side of this , is instead of running 6 guys across 2 coasts , you run 4 and the 450 teams run 4 , so you open up seats for the good 250 guys to fill, and guess what, your 450 class gets stronger as well. 

If you go the whole hog, and put an age limit in as well, you make 450 better straight away , RJ Hampshire, J Mart, Anstie, Jordon Smith , Forkner and all the others who are taking up seats in 250, cos there are none in 450, will make space at the lower end of the 250 class for the better privateer guys to still be relevant. 

Stick an age ceiling on of 25, if you havent made it by then you arent going to. 

Both classes are instantly deeper, stronger and tighter, and it will help the long term development of the sport, because as it is now, its unsustainable. 

While people in the US mock the small grids in MXGP,  we dont get lappers everyone in every class is up to speed, (apart from shit locals at flyaways) , and there are far fewer issues, even on our shorter MXGP tracks. 

I dont want to take away the joy of seeing the privateer do well , but we have to look at the reality of having them in a 450 main when they are so far off the pace of the front guys . 

And for the privateer guys, let them run a half schedule of whatever rounds they want, in both classes. This was how the World Rally Championship used to be , there were 10 or 12 rounds, and you had to do 8 , and that was it.  

If we dont change something, its not going to carry on at this level for long.  

 

Nope

PNWMXer
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2/12/2025 5:08am

-change SX to 250 only. 450s stay as the outdoor premier class.

SX feeder (current 250 class)-stock 250s other than ergos (bars, pegs, etc) and springs/revalves. Stock motors, no coatings/etc, other than OE.


Premier SX (current 450s)-250s as well but anything goes. Either allow the current factory 250s or ditch the production rule entirely.

Team403
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2/12/2025 7:04am

Honest question how many of the riders that make a 450 main have the fitness to run the pace for the whole race?

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