Interesting Video on the current So Cal Moto Scene

BoxcarWilly
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12/11/2024 11:42am

Seems we need to be opening MX tracks at Ski resorts. 

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captmoto
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA, USA
12/11/2024 12:40pm
Brent wrote:
...I can't even go to any SoCal track on a Saturday or Sunday, as they are packed to the gills with riders.  I ride during the...

...I can't even go to any SoCal track on a Saturday or Sunday, as they are packed to the gills with riders.

  I ride during the week, and every So Cal track I ride at still gets a couple hundred riders even on a Monday or Tuesday -  Moto is FAR from dead in Southern California.

In most cases we have noise complaints, mismanagement, and insurance problems that close these tracks and prevent new ones from opening.   

So I have a question - Ski resorts have lots of injuries and a few deadly ski accidents each season, and are still able to operate with insurance.  Why is the ski Industry not losing their resorts and slopes?  I would guess that they have money and legal power behind them to help keep these resorts open.    

Dirt bike riders and potential track owners are dumb and cheap, and most likely would not be willing to pay what it takes to form an organization to protect their interests.

What about the AMA you say?   well IMO the AMA is a bunch of self-serving dumb asses who don't really care about California motocross enough to form a track defense team or insurance fund to try and prevent these track closures.      

one more thing. -  all you guys who complain about a 30 dollar track fee need to see the prices they charge for green fees or lift tickets.    Tracks are not raking in the money - Perris Raceway had to get a Go Fund Me page up to repair a fucking generator, as their water and diesel bills are 12 grand a month each.    

 

Because skiing/snow boarding is mainstream and moto isn't. 

1
12/11/2024 1:35pm

Growing up in SoCal it seemed there were Moto tracks every where... I still think its the best place in the country for moto because of the climate, terrain, and popularity.  I think the biggest threat to Moto tracks nationally is the insurance costs, and for these tracks to continue to stay in business they will need to adjust their business models.

peelout
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12/11/2024 1:45pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Ski resorts get sued plenty, but ski resort owners/operators are far more sophisticated than motocross track owners/operators and do a better job of protecting themselves from...

Ski resorts get sued plenty, but ski resort owners/operators are far more sophisticated than motocross track owners/operators and do a better job of protecting themselves from liability.

not to mention the $14 beers and $22 slice of pizza is way better at a ski resort than a moto track

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The Shop

12/11/2024 2:21pm
I've definitely been wondering about the ski resort paradigm in contrast to moto tracks. From what I understand, real estate sales / development is what really...

I've definitely been wondering about the ski resort paradigm in contrast to moto tracks. From what I understand, real estate sales / development is what really drives ski resorts - I wonder if that gives them deeper pockets to fight off lawsuits. 

MX noise kills any chance at partnering with real estate developers like ski resorts. Ever been to a ski resort? They’re largely quiet.

wut... can you name any tracks that have been closed due to noise? I can not,residential developement for financal gain is different. And ski resorts are...

wut... can you name any tracks that have been closed due to noise? I can not,residential developement for financal gain is different. And ski resorts are loud all night long, unless you consider turbo diesel snowcat motors quiet, FYI the "new ones" are regulated to 104db, hmmm almost identical to a mx bike... Pre def era machies are much louder. I've been in and around the ski industry my whole life and now put more miles in a cat then anyone else in the state for snowmobile trail grooming, have a pulse on the in's and out's. 


And hank many, many, ski resorts have no private real estate and are on leases through the forest service with no real estate near. 
 

I wasn’t much into mx when both competition parks were closed down, but wasn’t it due to noise and dust near the Indian reservations? I was like 13 back then and mostly just went to watch cousins practice, so i really can’t remember exactly what happened 

Brent
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Temecula, CA, USA
12/11/2024 3:49pm
I wasn’t much into mx when both competition parks were closed down, but wasn’t it due to noise and dust near the Indian reservations? I was...

I wasn’t much into mx when both competition parks were closed down, but wasn’t it due to noise and dust near the Indian reservations? I was like 13 back then and mostly just went to watch cousins practice, so i really can’t remember exactly what happened 

Comp park 1 was closed in 2002 as they lost their lease on the land, I have not been to San Jacinto in years, so the old track site is probably surrounded with houses by now.

Comp Park 2 closed after a tribal member died riding on the new track, the Soboba tribal council also cancelled the 2002 Motocross of Nations that was scheduled at that track.

Comp Park 2 was nothing more than a flat sand pit, I raced there once and never went back. Comp 1 was awesome.

4
Sully
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12/11/2024 4:15pm

Seems we need to be opening MX tracks at Ski resorts. 

Shane Watts used to do riding clinics at Big Sky Resort in Montana in the early 200s.

1
soggy
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12/11/2024 4:17pm
Team403 wrote:
The sking industry is trying its hardest to be an elitist activity.  Capacity is capped so now you price out the working class to make the...

The sking industry is trying its hardest to be an elitist activity.  Capacity is capped so now you price out the working class to make the service levels tolerable for the upper classes.   This is the playground of lawyer types.. Dingy / dusty mx tracks are fodder… you don’t hear about golf courses getting sued either.. see a pattern 🤔

 

There is an interesting dichotomy here. Most real skiers aren’t rich elitist(some for sure are). And most of us have worked in the industry (or still do) to afford the ability to ski year after year.  

Then there is the vacation skier that goes 1-3 weeks a year and is there for the hot chocolate and family picture as much as anything. The ski industry caters to these folks. Most ski resorts don’t make there money on ticket sales they make it on real estate/hotels/ and food and beverage. 

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BoxcarWilly
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12/11/2024 4:23pm
Sully wrote:

Shane Watts used to do riding clinics at Big Sky Resort in Montana in the early 200s.

Big Sky used to have a national hare scramble!

1
12/11/2024 4:54pm

Another significant advantage that ski areas have built into their operating models is a much more intentional focus on beginners / casual participants. Any newb can walk onto any ski hill, and there will be a rental shop, and lessons available. Having a similar program at a moto track where rentals & lessons are readily available to the casually interested outsider seems like it would be a great way to grow the sport & increase revenue for the tracks. 

6
12/11/2024 5:12pm
Another significant advantage that ski areas have built into their operating models is a much more intentional focus on beginners / casual participants. Any newb can...

Another significant advantage that ski areas have built into their operating models is a much more intentional focus on beginners / casual participants. Any newb can walk onto any ski hill, and there will be a rental shop, and lessons available. Having a similar program at a moto track where rentals & lessons are readily available to the casually interested outsider seems like it would be a great way to grow the sport & increase revenue for the tracks. 

Do you mean like CityMX in Melbourne, Australia...

https://citymx.online/

1
NSP139
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12/11/2024 5:23pm
I wasn’t much into mx when both competition parks were closed down, but wasn’t it due to noise and dust near the Indian reservations? I was...

I wasn’t much into mx when both competition parks were closed down, but wasn’t it due to noise and dust near the Indian reservations? I was like 13 back then and mostly just went to watch cousins practice, so i really can’t remember exactly what happened 

Brent wrote:
Comp park 1 was closed in 2002 as they lost their lease on the land, I have not been to San Jacinto in years, so the...

Comp park 1 was closed in 2002 as they lost their lease on the land, I have not been to San Jacinto in years, so the old track site is probably surrounded with houses by now.

Comp Park 2 closed after a tribal member died riding on the new track, the Soboba tribal council also cancelled the 2002 Motocross of Nations that was scheduled at that track.

Comp Park 2 was nothing more than a flat sand pit, I raced there once and never went back. Comp 1 was awesome.

Yep comp park 2 was a disaster  when they watered it it was Green from the manure good thing that Glen Helen held a race for all the riders that came over for the canceled Nations race!

1
Philo Beddoe
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12/11/2024 5:41pm

What became of Castiac and Hopetown?


Used to hear about those tracks.

acres951
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CA
12/11/2024 5:51pm Edited Date/Time 12/11/2024 5:53pm

Ski resorts in North America are killing skiing for average people. They’re all owned by one of two companies and fees are through the roof. Enough rich people to pay.

Compare with European resorts. Many are run by the townships and skiing is much easier for common people to enjoy.

They likely don’t have the ridiculous “sue everyone everytime” culture that the US does either though. Is the US the only place with highways littered with lawyer billboards?


Edited to add I totally get track owners charging more in a lot of cases. Running a track is tons of effort only to get people complaining about everything as a reward.

5
12/11/2024 6:08pm
acres951 wrote:
Ski resorts in North America are killing skiing for average people. They’re all owned by one of two companies and fees are through the roof. Enough...

Ski resorts in North America are killing skiing for average people. They’re all owned by one of two companies and fees are through the roof. Enough rich people to pay.

Compare with European resorts. Many are run by the townships and skiing is much easier for common people to enjoy.

They likely don’t have the ridiculous “sue everyone everytime” culture that the US does either though. Is the US the only place with highways littered with lawyer billboards?


Edited to add I totally get track owners charging more in a lot of cases. Running a track is tons of effort only to get people complaining about everything as a reward.

"Is the US the only place with highways littered with lawyer billboards?"

Yes, and one of the few places that lawyers advertise on TV.

3
1
oceantrav
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Tarpon Springs, FL, USA
12/11/2024 6:44pm
I've definitely been wondering about the ski resort paradigm in contrast to moto tracks. From what I understand, real estate sales / development is what really...

I've definitely been wondering about the ski resort paradigm in contrast to moto tracks. From what I understand, real estate sales / development is what really drives ski resorts - I wonder if that gives them deeper pockets to fight off lawsuits. 

MX noise kills any chance at partnering with real estate developers like ski resorts. Ever been to a ski resort? They’re largely quiet.

wut... can you name any tracks that have been closed due to noise? I can not,residential developement for financal gain is different. And ski resorts are...

wut... can you name any tracks that have been closed due to noise? I can not,residential developement for financal gain is different. And ski resorts are loud all night long, unless you consider turbo diesel snowcat motors quiet, FYI the "new ones" are regulated to 104db, hmmm almost identical to a mx bike... Pre def era machies are much louder. I've been in and around the ski industry my whole life and now put more miles in a cat then anyone else in the state for snowmobile trail grooming, have a pulse on the in's and out's. 


And hank many, many, ski resorts have no private real estate and are on leases through the forest service with no real estate near. 
 

Track I grew up riding as a kid in north California closed because of noise I was told. Apparently hippies said trees didn’t like the noise. Was phillipsville (Probaly closed like 1999 or so)

need2ride
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the scene, CA, USA
12/11/2024 8:15pm

New track just opened in Joshua Tree.  Can"t lose all hope..

2
shortty761
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Newport News, VA, USA
12/11/2024 8:23pm
Another significant advantage that ski areas have built into their operating models is a much more intentional focus on beginners / casual participants. Any newb can...

Another significant advantage that ski areas have built into their operating models is a much more intentional focus on beginners / casual participants. Any newb can walk onto any ski hill, and there will be a rental shop, and lessons available. Having a similar program at a moto track where rentals & lessons are readily available to the casually interested outsider seems like it would be a great way to grow the sport & increase revenue for the tracks. 

yeah but the ski resort beginners are not spending $7000+ on a bike, $1000+ on boots, gear, helmet, hundreds a year in maintenance and fuel.

You buy some skis for like $500, ski gear for another $500-$700, and boom you are set for 10 years if you go 3-4 times a year.

Plus it's easy for the resorts to supply rental skis being that they are so cheap. Imagine funding rental dirtbikes. That would be expensive unless it was like TTR, KLX, CRF 150's ect.

1
12/12/2024 5:14am
Another significant advantage that ski areas have built into their operating models is a much more intentional focus on beginners / casual participants. Any newb can...

Another significant advantage that ski areas have built into their operating models is a much more intentional focus on beginners / casual participants. Any newb can walk onto any ski hill, and there will be a rental shop, and lessons available. Having a similar program at a moto track where rentals & lessons are readily available to the casually interested outsider seems like it would be a great way to grow the sport & increase revenue for the tracks. 

shortty761 wrote:
yeah but the ski resort beginners are not spending $7000+ on a bike, $1000+ on boots, gear, helmet, hundreds a year in maintenance and fuel.You buy...

yeah but the ski resort beginners are not spending $7000+ on a bike, $1000+ on boots, gear, helmet, hundreds a year in maintenance and fuel.

You buy some skis for like $500, ski gear for another $500-$700, and boom you are set for 10 years if you go 3-4 times a year.

Plus it's easy for the resorts to supply rental skis being that they are so cheap. Imagine funding rental dirtbikes. That would be expensive unless it was like TTR, KLX, CRF 150's ect.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make - an absolute beginner, with no gear whatsoever can walk onto a ski resort, and rent every bit of gear they need; no upfront investment needed. The skis resorts are renting out are much more in the line of the TTR/KLX/CRF models; and while a single moto is more expensive than a set of skis, there could be a significant cost offset in not having to account for the myriad run of sizes, and the process of fitting boots & setting up binding on skis. 

As others have observed, the ski industry makes its money off catering to the experience of first timers, and casual users; not off selling season passes to jaded locals. The MX / moto industry culture seems to work on the opposite paradigm, and seems to pride itself on gatekeeping, rather than providing an easily accessible on-ramp for those outside our sport. 

4
Team403
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12/12/2024 5:34am
acres951 wrote:
Ski resorts in North America are killing skiing for average people. They’re all owned by one of two companies and fees are through the roof. Enough...

Ski resorts in North America are killing skiing for average people. They’re all owned by one of two companies and fees are through the roof. Enough rich people to pay.

Compare with European resorts. Many are run by the townships and skiing is much easier for common people to enjoy.

They likely don’t have the ridiculous “sue everyone everytime” culture that the US does either though. Is the US the only place with highways littered with lawyer billboards?


Edited to add I totally get track owners charging more in a lot of cases. Running a track is tons of effort only to get people complaining about everything as a reward.

"Is the US the only place with highways littered with lawyer billboards?"

Yes, and one of the few places that lawyers advertise on TV.

Haha saw this one the other  day while waiting for my Uber at LAX - doesn’t get any better


IMG 5818 0

3
Team403
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12/12/2024 5:44am
Another significant advantage that ski areas have built into their operating models is a much more intentional focus on beginners / casual participants. Any newb can...

Another significant advantage that ski areas have built into their operating models is a much more intentional focus on beginners / casual participants. Any newb can walk onto any ski hill, and there will be a rental shop, and lessons available. Having a similar program at a moto track where rentals & lessons are readily available to the casually interested outsider seems like it would be a great way to grow the sport & increase revenue for the tracks. 

shortty761 wrote:
yeah but the ski resort beginners are not spending $7000+ on a bike, $1000+ on boots, gear, helmet, hundreds a year in maintenance and fuel.You buy...

yeah but the ski resort beginners are not spending $7000+ on a bike, $1000+ on boots, gear, helmet, hundreds a year in maintenance and fuel.

You buy some skis for like $500, ski gear for another $500-$700, and boom you are set for 10 years if you go 3-4 times a year.

Plus it's easy for the resorts to supply rental skis being that they are so cheap. Imagine funding rental dirtbikes. That would be expensive unless it was like TTR, KLX, CRF 150's ect.

I could buy a dirtbike for it would cost my family of 3 to fly to CO and rent and ride for 4 days.  I think I worked it out to like 50-75 a run.  Not worth it period.  
 

Despite being pretty decent at snowboarding I just gave the sport up once I had a family due to cost - I know a lot more in the same position.  Obviously if you live in CA or CO it’s a different deal but for us Fly-ins its rough😞

1
Team403
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12/12/2024 5:54am

If you want to see how to promote a sport go mountain biking in Bentonville AK.  They have that place so dialed for literally every skill level - and it’s totally free to the public.   It will blow you away how much they developed the area for mountain bikers - thriving is an understatement.  

I spent more quality time riding with my 9yr old than any other sporting activity we engage in.  I could prob give up dirtbikes if I lived close enough- it offers that much utility and overall satisfaction.   

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12/12/2024 6:10am Edited Date/Time 12/12/2024 6:13am

San Elijo Hills used to be one giant motocross track. Times change. If you don’t want to see motocross tracks disappear in prime real estate areas then stop building homes. In fact, the best thing for motocross would be if everyone would just stop procreating. Recreational motocross was much better back when there were fewer people on this planet.

The sport of motocross will never be more valuable than real estate.

4
GrapeApe
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12/12/2024 6:20am
Team403 wrote:
If you want to see how to promote a sport go mountain biking in Bentonville AK.  They have that place so dialed for literally every skill...

If you want to see how to promote a sport go mountain biking in Bentonville AK.  They have that place so dialed for literally every skill level - and it’s totally free to the public.   It will blow you away how much they developed the area for mountain bikers - thriving is an understatement.  

I spent more quality time riding with my 9yr old than any other sporting activity we engage in.  I could prob give up dirtbikes if I lived close enough- it offers that much utility and overall satisfaction.   

I'm trying my hardest to persuade my younger daughter to go to college in Fayetteville. She's not going to be happy when she finds out why. She may see me more in college than she did in high school.

1
Team403
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12/12/2024 7:25am
Team403 wrote:
If you want to see how to promote a sport go mountain biking in Bentonville AK.  They have that place so dialed for literally every skill...

If you want to see how to promote a sport go mountain biking in Bentonville AK.  They have that place so dialed for literally every skill level - and it’s totally free to the public.   It will blow you away how much they developed the area for mountain bikers - thriving is an understatement.  

I spent more quality time riding with my 9yr old than any other sporting activity we engage in.  I could prob give up dirtbikes if I lived close enough- it offers that much utility and overall satisfaction.   

GrapeApe wrote:
I'm trying my hardest to persuade my younger daughter to go to college in Fayetteville. She's not going to be happy when she finds out why...

I'm trying my hardest to persuade my younger daughter to go to college in Fayetteville. She's not going to be happy when she finds out why. She may see me more in college than she did in high school.

Haha - my buddy has graciously sent his 2 daughters there.. win win

12/12/2024 7:41am
Brent wrote:
Moto track operators in So Cal do not seem to consider additional profit generators besides gate fees.   Look at Fox Raceway, still primitive, but the leader...

Moto track operators in So Cal do not seem to consider additional profit generators besides gate fees.  

 Look at Fox Raceway, still primitive, but the leader in infrastructure - they have a cafe, a parts shop, and a Fox gear store that generates more income for them.   Add some bike wash bays that are pay to use and you can generate more income.

 Spend some money and add some real bathrooms - My wife will NOT go to a track where she has to pee in a disgusting, overflowing Porta Potty (looking at you, Cahuilla Creek). 

Charge vendors a fixed fee to set up in at the track on Saturdays and Sundays for tire changes, food trucks, add some paved parking and places for family and friends to watch riders on the track instead of making them stand in the fucking mud and dust - make coming to the track a family thing - again look at golf and ski areas, they have lots of stuff for non skiers and golfers to do while their family is on the course or the ski hill. 

Have a lawn or shade or a space where people can watch and spend money at a tee shirt store or a food vendor or something while they are there. If you build it, they will come out.   There is so much a track could do to generate more income and stay financially strong, but track operators around here don't seem to think like that., 

 

I've lived in multiple states/different regions of the east coast. Most tracks my wife is lucky to even get a porta potty. If they do have one that is a win. 

Moto520
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12/12/2024 7:47am

Sorry to my California moto-brothers that this is happening.  The sport seems to be doing well in my neck of the woods (Illinois).  i think a really good AMA District president makes a huge difference.  In Illinois we kind of leaned into the District 17 and it has been good.  I know the AMA isn't the answer for all the states but again....a good AMA district can make a difference.

Kyle978
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12/12/2024 7:53am

Mid 2000's SoCal moto was hard to beat. So many tracks, everyone from around the country/world based out of there, cheap houses in Menifee/Murrieta/Temecula...what an era.

I moved out of California in 2020, we go back every few months. Last few times I didn't even bring my dirt bike, just the bicycles. Sad to see the current state of the sport there. 

2
englishman
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12/12/2024 7:57am
San Elijo Hills used to be one giant motocross track. Times change. If you don’t want to see motocross tracks disappear in prime real estate areas...

San Elijo Hills used to be one giant motocross track. Times change. If you don’t want to see motocross tracks disappear in prime real estate areas then stop building homes. In fact, the best thing for motocross would be if everyone would just stop procreating. Recreational motocross was much better back when there were fewer people on this planet.

The sport of motocross will never be more valuable than real estate.

100% . North County San Diego 30 years ago was awesome, tracks & riding areas everywhere now it’s like OC 2.0 🤬👎🏻

1
avidchimp
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12/12/2024 8:02am
Kyle978 wrote:
Mid 2000's SoCal moto was hard to beat. So many tracks, everyone from around the country/world based out of there, cheap houses in Menifee/Murrieta/Temecula...what an era.I...

Mid 2000's SoCal moto was hard to beat. So many tracks, everyone from around the country/world based out of there, cheap houses in Menifee/Murrieta/Temecula...what an era.

I moved out of California in 2020, we go back every few months. Last few times I didn't even bring my dirt bike, just the bicycles. Sad to see the current state of the sport there. 

I've said it in another thread, with LACR closed it is at best a 5 hour round tripper to go hit the tracks now, and that's without traffic. LACR was 2 hours total R/T which meant you could get out, ride your moto's and be home before noon. There is a huge group of people who ride tracks in my area with no place reasonable distance away to go to, and for people like me with minimum amounts of free time during the week it really cuts down on track time, which then trickles down to less money spent on parts, oils, and other monies at the local dealer.

3

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