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Newsflash. Hundreds of dirt bikes going over moist dirt will cause ruts, bumps, holes, kickers, etc etc. If theses things get too dangerous everyone is in full control to end their recreation experience at that time. No one, I repeat, no one is holding a gun to your head, as Seth505 said, to continue for that plastic trophy or that 20th lap of practice. Be smart, be responsible and be accountable. Mr Taylor failed to do all three as a participant as well as a parent but managed to throw that back on the LACR owner win his case. Maybe someone should sue him for being an unfit parent for allowing his kid out on something that he reported as dangerous. Would be no different than him knowing their was an issue with a piece of track that was suspect on the roller coaster at the local theme park but allowing his son to go for a ride anyways. Have fun and be safe guys and gals, not sure how much longer we are going to get to enjoy this…
Or haven’t lived in a country with universal healthcare.
I’ll take my company sponsored healthcare in the USA over anything …
I think tracks need to go to a membership format, something that eliminates the option to sue. Probationary membership for a year, volunteer hours recorded, etc. Track attendance will drop (thats fine with me) but the quys and gals there will be quality. If I have to pay $50 or $60 instead of $40 but everyone is a member, the tracks less busy, and it is guaranteed to be there in 10 years I'd be happy to do so. Let the dorks go out to the public spots/trails that never get sued as someone else mentioned.
Ahhh, Payton is the expert. How does that not compute.
In this example prayer is the insurance company who have zero medical expertise deciding whether or not you even need an experts services — while directly profiting off ignoring with experts…
That’s the system. That’s the system you are defending.
and your assertion that anything the gov touches turns to shit is ahh… just ignorant and dumb. Anything the government defunds turns to shit. And when gov deregulates industries, they turn to shit.
American was built on post WW2 government investment in infrastructure, education and manufacturing, the sciences, medicine etc etc etc… and since lobbyist have taken over government, America has fallen behind in every one of those industries… government isn’t the problem corporate, private industry, lobbyists are the problem.
Again you can be ignorant and live in your little bubble of gov bad and insurance company deciding who gets healthcare is the ONLY possible way for America to function. Or you can face reality…
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But but but but…
So now motocross is less accessible because everyone is just accepting the status quo… we want to encourage more people to ride motocross not make the cost of entry even higher…
single payer Healthcare, 15 minute cities, reducing urban sprawl, increasing public transport to reduce ever expanding highways, and getting rid of lobbyists in government so the gov is free to do its job is the key to saving motocross… yes on the surface it seems insane. But that’s the reality — America and motocross is being destroyed by the malice of corporate lobbyists preventing expert from making the right decisions. It’s reality.
Maybe we shouldn’t speak ill of the dead but… good riddance to that murderer who used AI to increase denials of care by 90%… AI deciding healthcare to maximize profits. He got what he deserved.
Since I jumped the border I haven't had to pay for any health care.
familiar with that law.
it reads just about like the releases that every moto participant signs to ride.
It covers "inherent risks".
I would expect that a decent attorney would find a way around it if there was suspected negligence.
examples could be sharp objects a rider could fall on, or something that would be likely to cause a horse to get spooked like unsecured signage or banners.
I bet if there was a ground hog hole or some other hazard that you knew about and did not correct you could be on the hook for damages to horse and rider.
Unfortunately I doubt there is a single track owner that wouldn’t sell to a developer for the right number. The deck is stacked against them and the love of the game only goes so far. When the sport blew up in the early 70s the world and esp SoCal for example was a much different place. Way more freedom - it was a perfect combo. Now where you have available land you have no water to keep it up etc.. I really hate it for the sport but public tracks days are numbered…
If you don’t think the ins co’s and land owners of leased track properties don’t see all the carnage posted on SM these days you are wrong.
Our promoter pulls SM post that show potential ins red flags - standing too close to riders etc.. they claim that carriers review the SM accounts and probably do. it’s real and the optics don’t look good to the outside. We need to enjoy what we have while we have it. This goes for public off road lands as well. One day we will not be allowed on them - SXSs are already fucking that up…
Not in most of the developed world.
Jumps may not be the cause of MOST crashes but they are definitely the cause for MOST crashes ending in serious injuries.
Get a street bike and go to the track there if you don’t want bumps and ruts lol. Smooth tracks suck.
We grew up riding in sand pits and on vacant land. No dozers to groom the tracks ever and no jumps either. nothing but braking bumps, whoops and ruts. My brother, myself and a handful of friends we grew up riding with all became points scoring and national number holding riders in the 2000’s.
I don’t mean to attack you personally, but I just can’t stand these smooth track “why isn’t the track prepped everyday” wimps that have ruined motocross.
If your crashing in ruts, guess what slow down and learn some technique. Either way the crash probably won’t be too bad in ruts. It’s supercross type obstacles, smooth tracks (higher speeds) and stupidity which are the cause imo.
IMO the most rigged game in the world is the insurance industry. And it gets compounded in everything else that deals with insurance. Ever go for a body repair estimate? First thing they ask is if you have insurance. Hmm, wouldn't be that the price goes up if insurance is paying would it?
Having that layer of bullshit right in the middle of a health care system has never made sense to me. Everything gets inflated, profits get prioritized, lawsuits in every direction become common practice, yadda yadda. I don't see anything fixing the huge problem this thread is about, with that being a major part of the system.
My statement is based on conversation with our moto medic that has serviced our races for over 25 years and my statement stands. Yes, people crash and get injured on jumps but MOST serious injuries at our track are not from jumps. Your track may produce different results.
I'm not advocating for smooth tracks at all, just responding to the original statement that "removing jumps" will fix/lower the risk. Simply not true.
And, as stated in other posts, the real reason people crash is riding above there skill level. That's why people crash way more in a race setting than practice. Competitiveness and the adrenaline rush of racing drives people to ride beyond there skills independent of track conditions.
Our health care system in Canada isn't perfect, but I'll take it over the American system any time. In the last (just over a) year, during my journey to and through a Parkinson's diagnosis, I have seen 3 neurologists and had 2 MRIs. Cost to me: zero. I am now waiting for a follow up appointment for longer than I'd like, but that's because the neurologist I see had a 3 month research leave so his appointments are all pushed back.
For a lot of procedures here, wait times are excessive. But everyone is part of the queue - except for the very rich who can go elsewhere and pay for a procedure. American wait times are shorter, but put everyone - every single person, without exception - into the system and see what happens to your wait times.
Every other country in the civilized world has some form of universal health care (many much better than what we have in Canada - some form of public/private hybrid system like many in Europe is probably the best). The problem with the American system strikes me as less private vs public and more a matter of how the whole thing is set up. I've had people much more knowledgeable than I am on the topic explain it to me, and that taught me that I don't have a great handle on how it works, but I had a lot of "holy shit, how do they get away with that" moments. It sounds to me like you all are getting hosed, and I have no idea what the solution is but someone must. I can't help but think that some really rich assholes are profiting from misery and bamboozling the people to subvert the political will to do anything about it.
I'm pretty sure that if I was an American, I wouldn't be riding at all. I don't think that I could afford the risk. I, like many people around the world, look at the U.S.A. with amazement - that medical bankruptcies can be a thing in a country with so much. We have our own problems, so please don't take this as coming from someone who claims any sort of position of moral superiority - or that I claim to know all that much. I just hope you sort your shit out as well as is possible and that people in your country can still have places to ride and the medical coverage to allow riding to not be an insane risk.
Outrageous medical bills is also a problem to solve and that can't be solved without a huge government determination.
Same thing for insurances, there is always a cap and exclusionary clauses that are abusive.
Single track owners battling national insurance companies, that's the issue. No leadership, no uniformity, no concord for correction. The principles of this sport, the ones that have the ability to initiate and/or organize, just plain don't. It's the same theory used in organized crime. Why rob a bank when you can own one. What would the logistics be to create an insurance company that services just the moto industry, track owners specifically. Power in numbers, owners paying their premiums to an insurance company that specializes in litigating these types of injuries. I know it's probably a pipe dream, but eventually that's what riding on a track will be, a dream.
I don't think he was meaning to make the tracks smooth, but make less of the "man made" style of ruts caused by overwatering and ripping it 2 foot deep. Ruts are fun until they are stupid deep because of the wrong prep.
No worries! Just contact the AMA, thats what they’re there for right? I’m sure it’s not just a scam.
Pit Row
"wimps that have ruined motocross."
I guess you never watched a race at Carlsbad or Saddleback, the greats that raced there were no wimps. Traditionally motocross didn't have deep ruts unless it was a mudfest from rain.
If that were true that how would kids be able to play sports? The parent has to have the legal liability to sign for the kid.
I grew up playing hockey, still play beer league hockey, injuries happen all the time, but people are not suing the rinks left and right. how is motocross any different?
I agree that is probably what he meant. And I agree it’s a problem which is why I was bashing track prep. The modern idea of track prep sucks.
I much prefer riding in pits that have never seen a piece of equipment or on private tracks that don’t get groomed, and if they do it’s maybe once a year.
I think it’s different out west. If we don’t rip and groom regularly most our tracks might as well be pavement.
Definitely different compared to when I lived in the east and there was more moisture in the dirt and more periods of rain.
You clearly misunderstood me. I was bashing modern track prep which is what creates these slot car tracks that are all rutted but not a single bump out there. Add in a bunch of jumps and F that. I’m just not interested.
I was too young to have raced them but I have watched the old races of saddleback and Carlsbad and I stand by my statement that cry babies that whine about the track not being prepped have ruined the sport. Those tracks never even got groomed, never mind being “prepped”. I’d give my left nut to race either of those tracks.
Watching the video of Marty Moates win in 1980 is one of the greatest races ever. That track was so rough and beat it was sick and he was literally floating around it. The skill it took for him to do that, his balance and line selection was out of this world that day. That’s motocross and I stand by my statement that “wimps have ruined it”
The generally accepted practices in this industry have been Wild West and it's catching up. No flaggers on practice days, having pro riders run with kids on 60s, etc. I'm not defending the lawsuits but most sports and activities have much more professional approaches than motocross does, although every track is different.
"single payer Healthcare, 15 minute cities, reducing urban sprawl, increasing public transport to reduce ever expanding highways, and getting rid of lobbyists in government so the gov is free to do its job is the key to saving motocross…"
Wow....
Please enlighten me, how are 15 minute cities going to save motocross?
I live about as far from a city as you can get and I ride my dirt bike from my driveway. Living in some shit hole city with a couple other million folks sure doesn't seem like I'd be able to ride my dirt bike more.
A 15 minutes city does not mean everyone has to live there. It simply reduces urban sprawl and the endless expansion of highways to handle to more and more traffic from further and further distances. Dense walkable cities means those like access to amenities, culture, public transport and green space aren’t forced to live in ever expanding culdesac developments. Well designed cities are designed around people — the more country and motocross people encourage 15 minutes city does cities the less people encroach on motocross tracks… supporting the people that don’t like motocross to stay as far away from tracks, by presenting a viable option is a huge key to saving tracks.
Support 15 minute dense walkable cities even if you wouldn’t choose to live there.
Fair enough.
Is that why we're seeing such a huge motocross explosion in China?
Stopped reading after your second paragraph. Our ins is a scam but I rather get my ACL repaired within a few days to a couple of weeks rather than being on crutches and out of work waiting in the extensive lines of free healthcare services. I’ll take in and out of surgery straight into rehab and back walking in a month or so rather than delaying out months to years rebuilding a leg that has atrophied sitting around waiting for months. Pick your poison, me, I’ll take US system all day every day with the hopes of things turning around within it in the next few years.
imagine if this thing took on a life of it's own and rich taylor is the guy we can thank for it? unreal.
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