EIB Stark Future

Oh, well, looking forward to an enriching, thoughtful and well-argued discussion on Stark finances 🤣

I don't think 40 million Euro's is THAT big of a loan for a company of their size... Euribor interest rates are coming down fast, so I guess they thought it's time to pull the trigger.

My local dealer had 3 of them sitting on the floor a couple weeks ago. I thought there was more demand for these things.  

Stark is only a flash in the pan. Just like we said all along. Its a fad, it'll die out. At least in USA. Commie Europe will be the hotbed for these bikes because of the garbage restrictions they have on sound and engine freedom.

Stark has developed a great bike and would be awesome to have it race, but there’s just not a place for it yet. 

Plot twist, the loan is pending delivery for 15 months.

Maybe someday we'll see that whole range of new models.

I think that when it happens, they will have learned from the rollout issues with the Varg. And It will be more like  the other manufacturers where You will hear about a new bike and it will be at dealers  right away or soon after.

 It has been a part of the plan from the start. They never set any sort of timeframe for other bikes. Just that the Varg would be first. 

  I would like to see something that has a Varg size chassis and between Varg and Surron power that is $5K.  Have a basic fork and shock to keep price down. Make so  that people could upgrade the suspension by buying aftermarket or used KYB stuff off a YZ or similar. That would be a great beginner  or play bike.  Throw some lights on it and make it so it could be street legal with a little effort like the KTM off road bikes.They could sell something like that as a commuter bike too .  

It will probably not be something like that since that market is getting a bit flooded.   

It exists, you just need to find a roller and fab some brackets. I built a 2020 CRF that had 25 hours on it for $3k less battery including all the street legal stuff. Building my own battery for about $1200. 

I can't imagine current Varg demand is driving the need to scale up production capability. Past delivery delays, if I'm not mistaken, were caused in large part by supply chain issues. I can imagine Stark investing this borrowed money into a commuter bike like the Zero. That's a bigger market than MX methinks.

Yes that's exactly what they're saying, investment fo scaling up for their first road-homologated bikes that should be available next year.

Much bigger market so even crumbs of it could lead to a significant increase in production capacity needed.

Looking forward to the enduro model, we'll see what else they come up with.

Anything with Varg is gonna be a niche crowd, due to the cost. They are very nice bikes so there is a crowd out there, just not the big numbers like daily drivers such as smaller bikes in India Thailand Japan Asia etc (for street applications).

Every huge loan with such little time between them represents a complete lack of sustainability and is another step closer to being in the grave. Frankly it's shocking that any motorcycle "vision" is able to bring in so much cash. Lotta rich romantics out there in the banking world apparently. 

Once/if the big mfg's release their's, Stark will go bye bye, unless of course one of them acquires them.  When Ebikes have a place at the races, moto heads will support the brands they currently do.  Plus there will be works bikes etc that drive sales.   

Romantic bankers, that's a good one 😂

Well it sure isn't based on numbers. 

A loan because they need it to stay afloat or a loan because they want capital for expansion and development? 

Commiefornia is following right along..

Stark are already making money (as in positive monthly EBITDA thanks to 10 million euros monthly revenue), they need more money to keep growing and make more money. 

Bankers are pretty much known to crunch numbers.

Or it's just those damn romantic communists bankers making mischief again, who knows?

Don't ask for the hezbollah model....

I've got a RMZ that is running . That I would convert.  I like the idea of making my own conversion.  I need to finish some other long-term projects before I take on more projects. I've seen a lot of people do it on Hondas and Yamaha's.  I saw a brand new CRF roller that was sitting on Marketplace for a few months for 2500 that had me thinking.  And I've been looking around at some of the places that offer parts to convert. 

 I had a ton of fun on the Varg I rode in a lower HP setting. So I don't think I would mind not having as much power as a varg. 35to 40 HP would be fun. 

They're so romantically drunk on electric that they've abandoned reality. 

And Stark isn't making money. They're probably at least a quarter million in the red just from the "I" in EBITDA. They're just shy of breaking even while riding the peak wave of sales. Unless they do something new, really soon, it's downhill from here. Same problem as Alta, they're using their peak sales numbers to lure investment interest as if it's just going to blow up forever, and the banks don't know the motorcycle industry at all, let alone the offroad motorcycle industry, let alone the electric offroad motorcycle industry (boutique). 

Don't confuse any of this with electric hate. I love everything electric. What I don't like, is people manufacturing non-existent realities.

Guy built 5K bikes and didn’t make a dime. Hell of a business man.

I think they're over 8000 now, which is great. Each e-mfr gets better each time they come and go. The issue is that the hype purchases are not representative of ongoing sales when the pool of e-curious parties is so small and doesn't grow at the rate they think/hope it will. People today keep thinking that the best way to start a business is to just blow up onto the scene as a billion dollar company without concern for insane debt and without putting in the grind that provides businesses with the information required to be sustainable. 

Lot's of people in this thread evidently privy to Stark financial statements that I'm not, care to point me in the right direction?

From Stark on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/stark-future-sl-achieves-first-month-ebitda-profitability-wp21f/

And then on the Electric Dirt Rider forum they poke around at various dealer websites and look at VIN numbers and the highest from July 21st was 6859, plus something around 1000 bikes sold in August roughly calculated from their August revenue, plus being more than halfway through September, they're probably over 8000. 

Appreciate the conversation. Still really not convinced by romantic bankers but I get what you're saying.

Yeah they're probably on the verge of being profitable on a yearly basis, ahead of their plan, but they obviously need to diversify their offer to keep growing. This is why going to street bikes (not limited to Enduro which is just another niche) make sense, get out of the niche markets and see if they can make it. They're MX enthusiasts but the Varg is just intended as their halo product.

Honestly the cofounder was very successful and got millions from his first startup, 24MX, I know nothing about finances but he might know what he's doing. Plus banks throwing money at them might have seen more than the LinkedIn posts, seriously.

VINs over 7100 in the US so likely in the 8000 in Europe, July numbers translate to about 700 monthly sales, not bad for high end MXer but a good street bike would have much more potential.

Cool analogy with surfboards, no right or wrong, pick your own way to have the most fun and enjoy.

The EIB is owned by the 27 countries of the European Union. 

So yes, this has elements of a romantic investment - not because the EU loves MX, but because the product suits their non-fossil fuel political agenda.

Of course, its supposed to be a sound investment but the amount invested is pennies in their terms. They will consider that the political message justifies the risk.

(I'm not anti-electric MX by the way, I was blown away by the Stark when I rode one last year. Good luck to them, I hope they succeed).

Direct from the EIB press release.

The loan will fund Stark’s research, development and innovation activities and the scaling-up of the company’s manufacturing capacity.

Investment will support increased production of e-motorbikes and e-motorcross bikes contributing to the EIB’s technology innovation and climate action goals.

This operation is backed by the European Union’s InvestEU programme to mobilise public and private sector funds in support of EU policy goals.

Their spelling of 'motorcross' speaks volumes...

Basically the same reason as the last 25mil they needed but this time the green agenda is in place to smooth things out.

How many times has someone said we are broke and need more money so we can find a way to make money?