As money dries up.. why don’t the Racers?

Marshj
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Edited Date/Time 7/25/2024 11:14pm

It seems like bike sales are slowing with stagnant inventory, KTM group is consolidating and reducing expenses, next will be the aftermarket product and gear / equipment companies, yet from all reports event attendance is booming.


I find it odd, strange and even concerning that the riders don’t get a set % of profit to split as prize money. These arbitrary $$ amount purses based on their single event placement, not fan attendance or profit of the series makes little sense.


The current model only rewards results, it does not reward entertainment. If “the sport needs to grow” then the characters need to grow in visibility and star power. How do you do that? Compensate them accordingly - ala Connor McGregor changing the fight pay landscape. Pay per view. NFL profit share. 

You can’t get a straight interview out of these clowns because all their paid to do is plug their sponsors, that’s who pays them to race. You want good interviews? You want to know what changes they made to the bike? You want inside info on injuries and why certain contract things happen? Tie those very exciting and interesting news stories to their compensation. 

Because right now? From the series they are only paid for performance, not entertainment or engagement. And the other way they are paid is plugging someone who has a product to sell - aka sponsors. 

Pay them to be a part of the show; and this might all get a little more fun. 

What really drove this thought, was the gear and bike companies sales are slowing down, less teams and paid spots, because the traditional money is not there, sponsors, but the fan base is booming. So with this growth and presumably more $$ made per in person event, there should be opportunity for the riders to get paid related to that growth. 

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cwtoyota
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7/26/2024 1:02am
Marshj wrote:
It seems like bike sales are slowing with stagnant inventory, KTM group is consolidating and reducing expenses, next will be the aftermarket product and gear /...

It seems like bike sales are slowing with stagnant inventory, KTM group is consolidating and reducing expenses, next will be the aftermarket product and gear / equipment companies, yet from all reports event attendance is booming.


I find it odd, strange and even concerning that the riders don’t get a set % of profit to split as prize money. These arbitrary $$ amount purses based on their single event placement, not fan attendance or profit of the series makes little sense.


The current model only rewards results, it does not reward entertainment. If “the sport needs to grow” then the characters need to grow in visibility and star power. How do you do that? Compensate them accordingly - ala Connor McGregor changing the fight pay landscape. Pay per view. NFL profit share. 

You can’t get a straight interview out of these clowns because all their paid to do is plug their sponsors, that’s who pays them to race. You want good interviews? You want to know what changes they made to the bike? You want inside info on injuries and why certain contract things happen? Tie those very exciting and interesting news stories to their compensation. 

Because right now? From the series they are only paid for performance, not entertainment or engagement. And the other way they are paid is plugging someone who has a product to sell - aka sponsors. 

Pay them to be a part of the show; and this might all get a little more fun. 

What really drove this thought, was the gear and bike companies sales are slowing down, less teams and paid spots, because the traditional money is not there, sponsors, but the fan base is booming. So with this growth and presumably more $$ made per in person event, there should be opportunity for the riders to get paid related to that growth. 

How do we quantify engagement?

Take Freddy Noren (8th), Cullen Park(15th), Max Miller(21st), Carson Brown(23rd) and Shane McElrath (25th) at the last race, Washougal.
How do we decide who gets what cut from our "engagement purse"?

Surely there are more Carson Brown fans than any of those other guys simply because he thrives on his social media rather than his race results.
Shane McElrath has been more successful than any of the other guys listed in championship standings.

Freddy, Max and Cullen don't have huge followings of fans and they aren't the media or social media darlings, but they finished ahead of two guys who each probably have greater fan engagement than all three of these guys combined.

Vince Freese deserves a huge cut out of your engagement pie...   Good entertainment sould have a villain or a foil.

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kijen
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7/26/2024 4:08am

The health of the sport is not fan attendance or even pprofessional racers. The sport is ssupport by wweekend wwarriors of all dirtbike ddisciplines aactually busing the bIkes ans aaftermarket sales. The one thing that can scew thatcis used bIke sales. Ithe was ppretty well ppredicted dduring covid that the incrrase popularity aNd new bIkes sales would be a huge sell off of bbIkes aafterwards. Sseems you can get a great used bIke ppretty cheap ccompared to new, factoring in taxes and fees. Thow in the few years of iinflation and less disposable iincome. Fgood prices are ppretty iinsane ans eating up any of my eXtra money, (pun intended).

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APLMAN99
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7/26/2024 4:31am
Marshj wrote:
It seems like bike sales are slowing with stagnant inventory, KTM group is consolidating and reducing expenses, next will be the aftermarket product and gear /...

It seems like bike sales are slowing with stagnant inventory, KTM group is consolidating and reducing expenses, next will be the aftermarket product and gear / equipment companies, yet from all reports event attendance is booming.


I find it odd, strange and even concerning that the riders don’t get a set % of profit to split as prize money. These arbitrary $$ amount purses based on their single event placement, not fan attendance or profit of the series makes little sense.


The current model only rewards results, it does not reward entertainment. If “the sport needs to grow” then the characters need to grow in visibility and star power. How do you do that? Compensate them accordingly - ala Connor McGregor changing the fight pay landscape. Pay per view. NFL profit share. 

You can’t get a straight interview out of these clowns because all their paid to do is plug their sponsors, that’s who pays them to race. You want good interviews? You want to know what changes they made to the bike? You want inside info on injuries and why certain contract things happen? Tie those very exciting and interesting news stories to their compensation. 

Because right now? From the series they are only paid for performance, not entertainment or engagement. And the other way they are paid is plugging someone who has a product to sell - aka sponsors. 

Pay them to be a part of the show; and this might all get a little more fun. 

What really drove this thought, was the gear and bike companies sales are slowing down, less teams and paid spots, because the traditional money is not there, sponsors, but the fan base is booming. So with this growth and presumably more $$ made per in person event, there should be opportunity for the riders to get paid related to that growth. 

If you want to see the riders truly riding for free, adopt a ‘profit sharing’ approach. 

Entertainment accountants can make every single event a profitless endeavor and therefore there’s nothing to share. 

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Spoonguy
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7/26/2024 5:07am

The powers that be in the pro sports part of our sport have made a decision to make our sport a spectator rather than participant based sport. Dangerous tracks, expensive complicated machines, etc.. Nobody would go to the circus or zoo if everyone had an elephant in their neighborhood.

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The Shop

3strokemx
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7/26/2024 6:14am

Are new bike sales slowing?

Motocross racers would race for free, actually they would pay to race.

For every factory guy there are 100's of people out there willing to do his job (98% as well) for free.

I think it's great that anyone can make a living being involved with MX. Sure it's not like a mainstream sport financially but there are a lot of people living the dream and that's awesome.

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Zoom
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7/26/2024 6:47am

Motocross is a very small part of sales for Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki. Less that 10% of their Powersports total sales. By racing motocross those companies are able to build brand awareness to customers of street bikes, Side By Sides, ATV's, Personal Watercraft etc and even other products that those companies produce. That's why Supercross is so much more important to those companies. A large percentage of spectator's at a SX don't even ride dirt bikes. 

For other brands like KTM, Gas Gas, Husky and Beta, they need to sell dirt bikes to continue funding their MX/SX racing budget. 

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avidchimp
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7/26/2024 6:55am
Marshj wrote:
It seems like bike sales are slowing with stagnant inventory, KTM group is consolidating and reducing expenses, next will be the aftermarket product and gear /...

It seems like bike sales are slowing with stagnant inventory, KTM group is consolidating and reducing expenses, next will be the aftermarket product and gear / equipment companies, yet from all reports event attendance is booming.


I find it odd, strange and even concerning that the riders don’t get a set % of profit to split as prize money. These arbitrary $$ amount purses based on their single event placement, not fan attendance or profit of the series makes little sense.


The current model only rewards results, it does not reward entertainment. If “the sport needs to grow” then the characters need to grow in visibility and star power. How do you do that? Compensate them accordingly - ala Connor McGregor changing the fight pay landscape. Pay per view. NFL profit share. 

You can’t get a straight interview out of these clowns because all their paid to do is plug their sponsors, that’s who pays them to race. You want good interviews? You want to know what changes they made to the bike? You want inside info on injuries and why certain contract things happen? Tie those very exciting and interesting news stories to their compensation. 

Because right now? From the series they are only paid for performance, not entertainment or engagement. And the other way they are paid is plugging someone who has a product to sell - aka sponsors. 

Pay them to be a part of the show; and this might all get a little more fun. 

What really drove this thought, was the gear and bike companies sales are slowing down, less teams and paid spots, because the traditional money is not there, sponsors, but the fan base is booming. So with this growth and presumably more $$ made per in person event, there should be opportunity for the riders to get paid related to that growth. 

APLMAN99 wrote:
If you want to see the riders truly riding for free, adopt a ‘profit sharing’ approach. Entertainment accountants can make every single event a profitless endeavor and...

If you want to see the riders truly riding for free, adopt a ‘profit sharing’ approach. 

Entertainment accountants can make every single event a profitless endeavor and therefore there’s nothing to share. 

This is why when we negotiate a contract with studios it's a gross profit participation and not net. If you have a net profit deal you'll never see a dime.

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Pop Shmoke
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7/26/2024 7:55am Edited Date/Time 7/26/2024 8:00am
Zoom wrote:
Motocross is a very small part of sales for Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki. Less that 10% of their Powersports total sales. By racing motocross those...

Motocross is a very small part of sales for Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki. Less that 10% of their Powersports total sales. By racing motocross those companies are able to build brand awareness to customers of street bikes, Side By Sides, ATV's, Personal Watercraft etc and even other products that those companies produce. That's why Supercross is so much more important to those companies. A large percentage of spectator's at a SX don't even ride dirt bikes. 

For other brands like KTM, Gas Gas, Husky and Beta, they need to sell dirt bikes to continue funding their MX/SX racing budget. 

I made this argument before that for this reason its weird that honda doesnt have a 65 or an 85 anymore. Most ppl start out on pw50’s so they start out on a yamaha, but they used to have to look somewhere else when they moved up to a 65. Yamaha was smart and introduced a brand new 65 a couple years ago to keep kids on their brand from beginner all the way to big bikes because that was the only break in the chain. Those years in your childhood are your most formative years and are really important towards building brand awareness and recognition. 

Just like the pw theres also an enormous amount of ppl who start out on a crf50. Honda is such a big company that if they made a 65 and brought back the 85 you could have kids go from the crf50 all the way up to a crf450, and then buy a honda truck to drive it around in, a honda car for the wife, honda side by side, hell honda even makes jet airplanes. Honda has the most to gain by the brand awareness here because they have the most products that avg ppl can buy and non moto ppl. I had a cr85 when I was racing and it made me love hondas and it turned into me buying nothing but honda and acura cars. That shit is effective. Honda should in my opinion be trying to keep ppl on their brand at every step of the way. Not having a 65 or 85 means kids get to try other brands and then maybe they end up liking that brand more. 

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7/26/2024 8:25am

The way that Moto has evolved over the last 10 years or so, the money or value in the sport has really shifted to the media side of the industry.   You could make an argument now that a rider's media value is more then any other aspect of the sport right now.  Some have figured it out how to exploit that media value, and those that have will be the ones to lead this sport for the next decade.  

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Marshj
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7/26/2024 8:45am
kijen wrote:
The health of the sport is not fan attendance or even pprofessional racers. The sport is ssupport by wweekend wwarriors of all dirtbike ddisciplines aactually busing...

The health of the sport is not fan attendance or even pprofessional racers. The sport is ssupport by wweekend wwarriors of all dirtbike ddisciplines aactually busing the bIkes ans aaftermarket sales. The one thing that can scew thatcis used bIke sales. Ithe was ppretty well ppredicted dduring covid that the incrrase popularity aNd new bIkes sales would be a huge sell off of bbIkes aafterwards. Sseems you can get a great used bIke ppretty cheap ccompared to new, factoring in taxes and fees. Thow in the few years of iinflation and less disposable iincome. Fgood prices are ppretty iinsane ans eating up any of my eXtra money, (pun intended).

My point exactly. Is the health of football based on football sales?


No. It’s based on fans willing to engage via spending their time and money on being fans.

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Marshj
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7/26/2024 8:45am
The way that Moto has evolved over the last 10 years or so, the money or value in the sport has really shifted to the media...

The way that Moto has evolved over the last 10 years or so, the money or value in the sport has really shifted to the media side of the industry.   You could make an argument now that a rider's media value is more then any other aspect of the sport right now.  Some have figured it out how to exploit that media value, and those that have will be the ones to lead this sport for the next decade.  

Agree 100%.

Marshj
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7/26/2024 8:46am
Marshj wrote:
It seems like bike sales are slowing with stagnant inventory, KTM group is consolidating and reducing expenses, next will be the aftermarket product and gear /...

It seems like bike sales are slowing with stagnant inventory, KTM group is consolidating and reducing expenses, next will be the aftermarket product and gear / equipment companies, yet from all reports event attendance is booming.


I find it odd, strange and even concerning that the riders don’t get a set % of profit to split as prize money. These arbitrary $$ amount purses based on their single event placement, not fan attendance or profit of the series makes little sense.


The current model only rewards results, it does not reward entertainment. If “the sport needs to grow” then the characters need to grow in visibility and star power. How do you do that? Compensate them accordingly - ala Connor McGregor changing the fight pay landscape. Pay per view. NFL profit share. 

You can’t get a straight interview out of these clowns because all their paid to do is plug their sponsors, that’s who pays them to race. You want good interviews? You want to know what changes they made to the bike? You want inside info on injuries and why certain contract things happen? Tie those very exciting and interesting news stories to their compensation. 

Because right now? From the series they are only paid for performance, not entertainment or engagement. And the other way they are paid is plugging someone who has a product to sell - aka sponsors. 

Pay them to be a part of the show; and this might all get a little more fun. 

What really drove this thought, was the gear and bike companies sales are slowing down, less teams and paid spots, because the traditional money is not there, sponsors, but the fan base is booming. So with this growth and presumably more $$ made per in person event, there should be opportunity for the riders to get paid related to that growth. 

APLMAN99 wrote:
If you want to see the riders truly riding for free, adopt a ‘profit sharing’ approach. Entertainment accountants can make every single event a profitless endeavor and...

If you want to see the riders truly riding for free, adopt a ‘profit sharing’ approach. 

Entertainment accountants can make every single event a profitless endeavor and therefore there’s nothing to share. 

avidchimp wrote:
This is why when we negotiate a contract with studios it's a gross profit participation and not net. If you have a net profit deal you'll...

This is why when we negotiate a contract with studios it's a gross profit participation and not net. If you have a net profit deal you'll never see a dime.

Yup. Just like any licensing deal. Profit first

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Magoofan
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7/26/2024 8:51am
kijen wrote:
The health of the sport is not fan attendance or even pprofessional racers. The sport is ssupport by wweekend wwarriors of all dirtbike ddisciplines aactually busing...

The health of the sport is not fan attendance or even pprofessional racers. The sport is ssupport by wweekend wwarriors of all dirtbike ddisciplines aactually busing the bIkes ans aaftermarket sales. The one thing that can scew thatcis used bIke sales. Ithe was ppretty well ppredicted dduring covid that the incrrase popularity aNd new bIkes sales would be a huge sell off of bbIkes aafterwards. Sseems you can get a great used bIke ppretty cheap ccompared to new, factoring in taxes and fees. Thow in the few years of iinflation and less disposable iincome. Fgood prices are ppretty iinsane ans eating up any of my eXtra money, (pun intended).

Let me guess...you're responding on a mobile device.

Many people are having the spelling issues like your post above due to recent software updates of Vital.   What a mess. 

 

As to the money drying up....      companies continue to make products that are out of reach of the average person.  Gone are the days where dirt bikes were for the everyman.   Now they're pretty much for the affluent. 

 

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Rosso391
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7/26/2024 9:21am
The way that Moto has evolved over the last 10 years or so, the money or value in the sport has really shifted to the media...

The way that Moto has evolved over the last 10 years or so, the money or value in the sport has really shifted to the media side of the industry.   You could make an argument now that a rider's media value is more then any other aspect of the sport right now.  Some have figured it out how to exploit that media value, and those that have will be the ones to lead this sport for the next decade.  

Yeah, oKaY. Nice try Ferry...

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AMetts
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7/26/2024 9:39am
kijen wrote:
The health of the sport is not fan attendance or even pprofessional racers. The sport is ssupport by wweekend wwarriors of all dirtbike ddisciplines aactually busing...

The health of the sport is not fan attendance or even pprofessional racers. The sport is ssupport by wweekend wwarriors of all dirtbike ddisciplines aactually busing the bIkes ans aaftermarket sales. The one thing that can scew thatcis used bIke sales. Ithe was ppretty well ppredicted dduring covid that the incrrase popularity aNd new bIkes sales would be a huge sell off of bbIkes aafterwards. Sseems you can get a great used bIke ppretty cheap ccompared to new, factoring in taxes and fees. Thow in the few years of iinflation and less disposable iincome. Fgood prices are ppretty iinsane ans eating up any of my eXtra money, (pun intended).

Marshj wrote:
My point exactly. Is the health of football based on football sales?No. It’s based on fans willing to engage via spending their time and money on...

My point exactly. Is the health of football based on football sales?


No. It’s based on fans willing to engage via spending their time and money on being fans.

No, football is based on ads and sponsorships same as supercross and motocross is. Everywhere you look on a broadcast or a stadium there is a company paying to have their name on it. 

Biggest chunk of their money comes from the TV deals who are paying the NFL for rights which in turn they recoup by selling you guessed it ads in the form of commercials on TV. 

 

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aeffertz
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7/26/2024 10:24am
The way that Moto has evolved over the last 10 years or so, the money or value in the sport has really shifted to the media...

The way that Moto has evolved over the last 10 years or so, the money or value in the sport has really shifted to the media side of the industry.   You could make an argument now that a rider's media value is more then any other aspect of the sport right now.  Some have figured it out how to exploit that media value, and those that have will be the ones to lead this sport for the next decade.  

Was Jett able to buy a Rolls Royce because of his instagram account or his race results? Results are still the most valuable aspect of a racer, you’re crazy to think otherwise. 

You can raise your value as a racer by having a good media presence but again it’s not the most important aspect. Eli practically has zero online/media presence and is one of the highest paid racers at the moment. 

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Flatliner
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7/26/2024 10:30am
The way that Moto has evolved over the last 10 years or so, the money or value in the sport has really shifted to the media...

The way that Moto has evolved over the last 10 years or so, the money or value in the sport has really shifted to the media side of the industry.   You could make an argument now that a rider's media value is more then any other aspect of the sport right now.  Some have figured it out how to exploit that media value, and those that have will be the ones to lead this sport for the next decade.  

aeffertz wrote:
Was Jett able to buy a Rolls Royce because of his instagram account or his race results? Results are still the most valuable aspect of a...

Was Jett able to buy a Rolls Royce because of his instagram account or his race results? Results are still the most valuable aspect of a racer, you’re crazy to think otherwise. 

You can raise your value as a racer by having a good media presence but again it’s not the most important aspect. Eli practically has zero online/media presence and is one of the highest paid racers at the moment. 

I agree, for the best of the best.

 

Second and third tier guys can really boost their income with social media.

Think of something like fitness, where 10-15 years ago it was non existent.  Now , any idiot who's willing to prostitue themselves for views can earn a living.

3
Brad460
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7/26/2024 10:39am
Flatliner wrote:
I agree, for the best of the best. Second and third tier guys can really boost their income with social media.Think of something like fitness, where 10-15...

I agree, for the best of the best.

 

Second and third tier guys can really boost their income with social media.

Think of something like fitness, where 10-15 years ago it was non existent.  Now , any idiot who's willing to prostitue themselves for views can earn a living.

Good example is Jeff Walker..he has a great YouTube channel with a lot of followers and I am assuming he is making some money off of it. He isn’t the fastest guy, but a very genuine likeable guy with down to earth content.

2
7/26/2024 10:46am
Marshj wrote:
It seems like bike sales are slowing with stagnant inventory, KTM group is consolidating and reducing expenses, next will be the aftermarket product and gear /...

It seems like bike sales are slowing with stagnant inventory, KTM group is consolidating and reducing expenses, next will be the aftermarket product and gear / equipment companies, yet from all reports event attendance is booming.


I find it odd, strange and even concerning that the riders don’t get a set % of profit to split as prize money. These arbitrary $$ amount purses based on their single event placement, not fan attendance or profit of the series makes little sense.


The current model only rewards results, it does not reward entertainment. If “the sport needs to grow” then the characters need to grow in visibility and star power. How do you do that? Compensate them accordingly - ala Connor McGregor changing the fight pay landscape. Pay per view. NFL profit share. 

You can’t get a straight interview out of these clowns because all their paid to do is plug their sponsors, that’s who pays them to race. You want good interviews? You want to know what changes they made to the bike? You want inside info on injuries and why certain contract things happen? Tie those very exciting and interesting news stories to their compensation. 

Because right now? From the series they are only paid for performance, not entertainment or engagement. And the other way they are paid is plugging someone who has a product to sell - aka sponsors. 

Pay them to be a part of the show; and this might all get a little more fun. 

What really drove this thought, was the gear and bike companies sales are slowing down, less teams and paid spots, because the traditional money is not there, sponsors, but the fan base is booming. So with this growth and presumably more $$ made per in person event, there should be opportunity for the riders to get paid related to that growth. 

APLMAN99 wrote:
If you want to see the riders truly riding for free, adopt a ‘profit sharing’ approach. Entertainment accountants can make every single event a profitless endeavor and...

If you want to see the riders truly riding for free, adopt a ‘profit sharing’ approach. 

Entertainment accountants can make every single event a profitless endeavor and therefore there’s nothing to share. 

avidchimp wrote:
This is why when we negotiate a contract with studios it's a gross profit participation and not net. If you have a net profit deal you'll...

This is why when we negotiate a contract with studios it's a gross profit participation and not net. If you have a net profit deal you'll never see a dime.

Yes, they are very good at hiding what is considered profit.

1
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TeamGreen
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7/26/2024 10:55am Edited Date/Time 7/26/2024 12:42pm

It’s interesting that we’ve assumed that KTM’s consolidation of race operations is assumed to be linked with the OP’s interpretation of what’s going on, currently, with sales at the dealer level. 

The KTM group has been making all sorts of operational cost saving moves & serious changes to their corporate operations over these last few years.

I’m jus’ sayin’…

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7/26/2024 11:05am
Flatliner wrote:
I agree, for the best of the best. Second and third tier guys can really boost their income with social media.Think of something like fitness, where 10-15...

I agree, for the best of the best.

 

Second and third tier guys can really boost their income with social media.

Think of something like fitness, where 10-15 years ago it was non existent.  Now , any idiot who's willing to prostitue themselves for views can earn a living.

Brad460 wrote:
Good example is Jeff Walker..he has a great YouTube channel with a lot of followers and I am assuming he is making some money off of...

Good example is Jeff Walker..he has a great YouTube channel with a lot of followers and I am assuming he is making some money off of it. He isn’t the fastest guy, but a very genuine likeable guy with down to earth content.

Another example would be Deegan . Before he ever lined up on the gate as a pro he was making more off his Youtube channel and merch sales than a lot of Pro racers do. 

He is even considering building his own team for when he is on a 450. Results alone Do not do that. 

 

And unrelated to the quoted text...   People talk about the health of the sport.  Some see that as  ditbike sales and consumers buying and participation. And others are looking at the health of Pro racing from an entertainment point of view. Sales of tickets to attend live races, views on the broadcasts, etc.  Sometimes they are connected and sometimes they are not.

 

 I love the idea of paying for the entertainment value. Figuring out how that pie is sliced up might not be so easy.  Perhaps some sort or formula of race results, and social media following and other points could be used as a starting point. I agree that it could really help blow the sport up as far as being a mainstream form of entertainment. Some of that interest would spill over into bike and gear sales too I'm sure. At this point just about every MX company makes some sort of casual clothing. So even if it helps boost the sales of T shirts for FMF. That will still help keep the lights on and allow pipes to be made.  An idea like this would likely take years to put into place. Current contracts may need to expire or be redone.   

sam hain
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7/26/2024 11:26am Edited Date/Time 7/26/2024 11:30am
TeamGreen wrote:
It’s interesting that we’ve assumed that KTM’s consolidation of race operations is assumed to be linked with the OP’s interpretation of what’s going on, currently, with...

It’s interesting that we’ve assumed that KTM’s consolidation of race operations is assumed to be linked with the OP’s interpretation of what’s going on, currently, with sales at the dealer level. 

The KTM group has been making all sorts of operational cost saving moves & serious changes to their corporate operations over these last few years.

I’m jus’ sayin’…

Two KTM dealers within 30mins of me (one is large volume, multi brand) both are still flooded with 24 models. The larger volume dealer has crazy prices on some models, enough so they have gut punched the used market in my area. Rumors are KTM is doing away with the Husky name after '26 because they are still paying Sweden for the name rights or something along those lines. I suspect big(ger) changes coming from KTM in the next 3yrs. 

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Spoonguy
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7/26/2024 6:41pm
3strokemx wrote:
Are new bike sales slowing?Motocross racers would race for free, actually they would pay to race.For every factory guy there are 100's of people out there...

Are new bike sales slowing?

Motocross racers would race for free, actually they would pay to race.

For every factory guy there are 100's of people out there willing to do his job (98% as well) for free.

I think it's great that anyone can make a living being involved with MX. Sure it's not like a mainstream sport financially but there are a lot of people living the dream and that's awesome.

Yes, new bike bike sales are a fraction of what they were in the Hodaka, Elsinore days. And many, many less people would race for free now days. Less little league players, young fishermen, hunters, wrestlers, etc.. We live in a spectator society.

4
olds cool
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7/26/2024 8:52pm

Forgive my ignorance because this may have changed but are the riders still not allowed to sell merchandise and swag in the pits or at the races?  If not, then how would anyone think that they could ever get “a piece of the entertainment value pie”?

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Stewyeww
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AU
7/26/2024 8:57pm

Bike sales will be down compared to the COVID era boom, but are they down compared to before that, or just at a more normal level to before COVID?

2
BobPA
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7/26/2024 9:24pm
olds cool wrote:
Forgive my ignorance because this may have changed but are the riders still not allowed to sell merchandise and swag in the pits or at the...

Forgive my ignorance because this may have changed but are the riders still not allowed to sell merchandise and swag in the pits or at the races?  If not, then how would anyone think that they could ever get “a piece of the entertainment value pie”?

No merchandise at the events.you have to buy the horrendous MotoTees crap or nothing at all. 

2
2
aeffertz
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La Crosse, WI, USA
7/26/2024 11:31pm
olds cool wrote:
Forgive my ignorance because this may have changed but are the riders still not allowed to sell merchandise and swag in the pits or at the...

Forgive my ignorance because this may have changed but are the riders still not allowed to sell merchandise and swag in the pits or at the races?  If not, then how would anyone think that they could ever get “a piece of the entertainment value pie”?

BobPA wrote:

No merchandise at the events.you have to buy the horrendous MotoTees crap or nothing at all. 

Not true. You can sell merch out of your truck if you pay the necessary fees. Most privateers will not sling enough merch to break even on the cost so that's why they don't do it. 

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1
Soul Indigo
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Phuket, TH
7/27/2024 3:23am
Spoonguy wrote:
The powers that be in the pro sports part of our sport have made a decision to make our sport a spectator rather than participant based...

The powers that be in the pro sports part of our sport have made a decision to make our sport a spectator rather than participant based sport. Dangerous tracks, expensive complicated machines, etc.. Nobody would go to the circus or zoo if everyone had an elephant in their neighborhood.

Bread and circus while the gladiators fight it out for glory and well…survival. 

Same same UFC. 

There’s a reason Monster sponsors both. 

2
Soul Indigo
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7/27/2024 3:27am
The way that Moto has evolved over the last 10 years or so, the money or value in the sport has really shifted to the media...

The way that Moto has evolved over the last 10 years or so, the money or value in the sport has really shifted to the media side of the industry.   You could make an argument now that a rider's media value is more then any other aspect of the sport right now.  Some have figured it out how to exploit that media value, and those that have will be the ones to lead this sport for the next decade.  

At the end of the day, it’s about attention. 

10 years ago, guys in 15th had to get faster to get more of it.

 

Soul Indigo
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7/27/2024 3:32am
kijen wrote:
The health of the sport is not fan attendance or even pprofessional racers. The sport is ssupport by wweekend wwarriors of all dirtbike ddisciplines aactually busing...

The health of the sport is not fan attendance or even pprofessional racers. The sport is ssupport by wweekend wwarriors of all dirtbike ddisciplines aactually busing the bIkes ans aaftermarket sales. The one thing that can scew thatcis used bIke sales. Ithe was ppretty well ppredicted dduring covid that the incrrase popularity aNd new bIkes sales would be a huge sell off of bbIkes aafterwards. Sseems you can get a great used bIke ppretty cheap ccompared to new, factoring in taxes and fees. Thow in the few years of iinflation and less disposable iincome. Fgood prices are ppretty iinsane ans eating up any of my eXtra money, (pun intended).

Marshj wrote:
My point exactly. Is the health of football based on football sales?No. It’s based on fans willing to engage via spending their time and money on...

My point exactly. Is the health of football based on football sales?


No. It’s based on fans willing to engage via spending their time and money on being fans.

AMetts wrote:
No, football is based on ads and sponsorships same as supercross and motocross is. Everywhere you look on a broadcast or a stadium there is a...

No, football is based on ads and sponsorships same as supercross and motocross is. Everywhere you look on a broadcast or a stadium there is a company paying to have their name on it. 

Biggest chunk of their money comes from the TV deals who are paying the NFL for rights which in turn they recoup by selling you guessed it ads in the form of commercials on TV. 

 

Which is why the pro side of the motocross is one big ad. 

When the powers that be care more about numbers of eyeballs instead of numbers of riders, you get a circus. 

1

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