Riding with missing spokes

shortty761
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You show up to the track on Saturday morning. Stoked to ride. You put in a solid 20 minute moto and go cool off.

Before heading back out you notice 3 broken spokes on your from wheel near the valve stem.

Two choices.

You gonna keep riding or go home?

Poll

Riding with broken spokes.

Choices
3
|
soggy
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7/11/2024 7:46pm

If it was one I’d consider just working some technique and riding easy. With 3 no way in hell. 
 

so what did you or your buddy do??

10
shortty761
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7/11/2024 8:10pm
soggy wrote:
If it was one I’d consider just working some technique and riding easy. With 3 no way in hell.    so what did you or your...

If it was one I’d consider just working some technique and riding easy. With 3 no way in hell. 
 

so what did you or your buddy do??

Had a buddy show up to the track with 3 missing spokes, same scenario as above, and he rode the entire day. Over jumping things and such. Made it through the day but not a chance I would take lol. He said he’s ordering a new front rim anyways. Grinning

2
soggy
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7/11/2024 8:37pm
soggy wrote:
If it was one I’d consider just working some technique and riding easy. With 3 no way in hell.    so what did you or your...

If it was one I’d consider just working some technique and riding easy. With 3 no way in hell. 
 

so what did you or your buddy do??

shortty761 wrote:
Had a buddy show up to the track with 3 missing spokes, same scenario as above, and he rode the entire day. Over jumping things and...

Had a buddy show up to the track with 3 missing spokes, same scenario as above, and he rode the entire day. Over jumping things and such. Made it through the day but not a chance I would take lol. He said he’s ordering a new front rim anyways. Grinning

Haha even sketchier with a front wheel I think 😂. Luckily he’s not ordering some crutches too ☠️

3
TbonesPop
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7/11/2024 11:39pm

I just want to know how you completely lose 3 spokes on a wheel.  I've had loose spokes, but never lost one.  Seriously, where the hell would it go?  Lose 1, seems like a freak thing.  Lose 3?  That's mechanical negligence.  

Hint: when washing your bike after riding, wash the wheels and tires really well, and when drying the rims off with a rag (by spinning the wheel), squeeze your spokes with your non-drying hand while rotating your wheel.  If you feel any movement at all, tighten your spokes.  Not rocket science....

4

The Shop

cwtoyota
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7/11/2024 11:50pm

This is a fun way to answer the question of how many spokes on a bicycle:  

 

 

 

3
Gravel
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7/12/2024 6:28am

Landing on flat ground from over jumping a downhill drop, I noticed my front fender dancing around different than I’d ever seen before, it was flopping side to side, a lot more than usual. The horizon tilted, the ground came up to meet me and I splattered the dirt. Happened really fast, pretty hard crash.

A month or so before, my front rim had cracked at the seam so I had a welder friend fix it. Great guy, but his weld didn’t hold. Lesson learned. 
 

Take care of your wheels, no compromises. Especially the front, it sucks bad when it collapses. 
 

6
davis224
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7/12/2024 7:17am
Gravel wrote:
Landing on flat ground from over jumping a downhill drop, I noticed my front fender dancing around different than I’d ever seen before, it was flopping...

Landing on flat ground from over jumping a downhill drop, I noticed my front fender dancing around different than I’d ever seen before, it was flopping side to side, a lot more than usual. The horizon tilted, the ground came up to meet me and I splattered the dirt. Happened really fast, pretty hard crash.

A month or so before, my front rim had cracked at the seam so I had a welder friend fix it. Great guy, but his weld didn’t hold. Lesson learned. 
 

Take care of your wheels, no compromises. Especially the front, it sucks bad when it collapses. 
 

Doesn't matter how good the actual weld is, I'd never weld a rim. Heat stress makes it weak and likely to warp the wheel too.

4
1
zippytech
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7/12/2024 7:42am
Gravel wrote:
Landing on flat ground from over jumping a downhill drop, I noticed my front fender dancing around different than I’d ever seen before, it was flopping...

Landing on flat ground from over jumping a downhill drop, I noticed my front fender dancing around different than I’d ever seen before, it was flopping side to side, a lot more than usual. The horizon tilted, the ground came up to meet me and I splattered the dirt. Happened really fast, pretty hard crash.

A month or so before, my front rim had cracked at the seam so I had a welder friend fix it. Great guy, but his weld didn’t hold. Lesson learned. 
 

Take care of your wheels, no compromises. Especially the front, it sucks bad when it collapses. 
 

davis224 wrote:

Doesn't matter how good the actual weld is, I'd never weld a rim. Heat stress makes it weak and likely to warp the wheel too.

Are they not all welded from the factory?

1
davis224
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7/12/2024 8:30am
Gravel wrote:
Landing on flat ground from over jumping a downhill drop, I noticed my front fender dancing around different than I’d ever seen before, it was flopping...

Landing on flat ground from over jumping a downhill drop, I noticed my front fender dancing around different than I’d ever seen before, it was flopping side to side, a lot more than usual. The horizon tilted, the ground came up to meet me and I splattered the dirt. Happened really fast, pretty hard crash.

A month or so before, my front rim had cracked at the seam so I had a welder friend fix it. Great guy, but his weld didn’t hold. Lesson learned. 
 

Take care of your wheels, no compromises. Especially the front, it sucks bad when it collapses. 
 

davis224 wrote:

Doesn't matter how good the actual weld is, I'd never weld a rim. Heat stress makes it weak and likely to warp the wheel too.

zippytech wrote:

Are they not all welded from the factory?

I'm no expert so someone may correct me, but I imagine they are welded in a jig in the factory and go through some sort of controlled heat cycle to keep it from warping, and re welding it would just add more heat stress to the area it was already welded (on thin metal)

I'm not sure if his friend just welded the surface of the crack in the rim, but there was probably a crack internally past what was visible going any certain direction that was still there after he welded it. Typically with cracks, you grind it out until you can't see any evidence of the crack, then drill a hole at the end and weld. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing all of that on a MX rim and it still being atructurally sound. If I see a crack, it's trash.

2
Hasletjoe
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7/12/2024 8:45am
Gravel wrote:
Landing on flat ground from over jumping a downhill drop, I noticed my front fender dancing around different than I’d ever seen before, it was flopping...

Landing on flat ground from over jumping a downhill drop, I noticed my front fender dancing around different than I’d ever seen before, it was flopping side to side, a lot more than usual. The horizon tilted, the ground came up to meet me and I splattered the dirt. Happened really fast, pretty hard crash.

A month or so before, my front rim had cracked at the seam so I had a welder friend fix it. Great guy, but his weld didn’t hold. Lesson learned. 
 

Take care of your wheels, no compromises. Especially the front, it sucks bad when it collapses. 
 

davis224 wrote:

Doesn't matter how good the actual weld is, I'd never weld a rim. Heat stress makes it weak and likely to warp the wheel too.

zippytech wrote:

Are they not all welded from the factory?

Yes

Falcon
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7/12/2024 11:11am

Back to the OP's question: I'd ride with one missing spoke, no more. And I'd watch that wheel like a hawk. If a second one goes, the day is over. 

My '82 RM80 had one missing spoke for probably six months back when I was young and dumb. 

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Village Idiot
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7/12/2024 12:03pm
Falcon wrote:
Back to the OP's question: I'd ride with one missing spoke, no more. And I'd watch that wheel like a hawk. If a second one goes...

Back to the OP's question: I'd ride with one missing spoke, no more. And I'd watch that wheel like a hawk. If a second one goes, the day is over. 

My '82 RM80 had one missing spoke for probably six months back when I was young and dumb. 

Been there, done that. Glad I survived to tell the tales...

At that age it isn't about how many loose spokes on the bike, it's about how many loose screws the rider has!Grinning

crusher773
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7/12/2024 12:07pm

1 is ok my boy broke one a couple weeks ago at a race and finished out the last moto fine, but 3?  No way.

1
Gravel
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7/12/2024 3:05pm
davis224 wrote:

Doesn't matter how good the actual weld is, I'd never weld a rim. Heat stress makes it weak and likely to warp the wheel too.

zippytech wrote:

Are they not all welded from the factory?

davis224 wrote:
I'm no expert so someone may correct me, but I imagine they are welded in a jig in the factory and go through some sort of...

I'm no expert so someone may correct me, but I imagine they are welded in a jig in the factory and go through some sort of controlled heat cycle to keep it from warping, and re welding it would just add more heat stress to the area it was already welded (on thin metal)

I'm not sure if his friend just welded the surface of the crack in the rim, but there was probably a crack internally past what was visible going any certain direction that was still there after he welded it. Typically with cracks, you grind it out until you can't see any evidence of the crack, then drill a hole at the end and weld. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing all of that on a MX rim and it still being atructurally sound. If I see a crack, it's trash.

He cut out the cracked area and tig (I think) welded it. It looked pretty good, but didn’t hold. To be fair, the flat landing was pretty rough, but the lesson was learned about taking care of my wheels. 

1
Rickyisms
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7/12/2024 3:11pm

I rode without one spoke in my rear wheel for a lot longer then I’d like to say publicly 😬. Surely I cased or overjumped a fair amount of shit in that time period along with a good amount of harescrambles and trail riding too, but everything held up fine. 
 

This was a set of Talon hubs laced to DID STXs with Bulldog HD spokes, no way I’d risk the same scenario on a set of OEM KTM wheels. 

davis224
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7/12/2024 3:23pm
zippytech wrote:

Are they not all welded from the factory?

davis224 wrote:
I'm no expert so someone may correct me, but I imagine they are welded in a jig in the factory and go through some sort of...

I'm no expert so someone may correct me, but I imagine they are welded in a jig in the factory and go through some sort of controlled heat cycle to keep it from warping, and re welding it would just add more heat stress to the area it was already welded (on thin metal)

I'm not sure if his friend just welded the surface of the crack in the rim, but there was probably a crack internally past what was visible going any certain direction that was still there after he welded it. Typically with cracks, you grind it out until you can't see any evidence of the crack, then drill a hole at the end and weld. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing all of that on a MX rim and it still being atructurally sound. If I see a crack, it's trash.

Gravel wrote:
He cut out the cracked area and tig (I think) welded it. It looked pretty good, but didn’t hold. To be fair, the flat landing was...

He cut out the cracked area and tig (I think) welded it. It looked pretty good, but didn’t hold. To be fair, the flat landing was pretty rough, but the lesson was learned about taking care of my wheels. 

I'm sure you've thrown it out by now, but I'd be curious as to where it failed, straight down the middle of the weld, the weld separating drop the parent metal, or the area right next to the weld if it cooled too fast and became brittle.

Radical
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7/12/2024 6:18pm

I would ride with one broken spoke on either wheel.

Any more than that and I'd probably still ride, but not jump far, and just work on technique.

I believe rims have a cable inside as well that keeps things together.

For me, if there are any cracks, I'm replacing the rim (and anodizing the hub while it's apart).

cwel11
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7/12/2024 6:49pm

This might come off as a Karen but if your buddy chose to go out with 3 spokes gone and ends up yard sailing himself I’d have no problem. However what if he yard sailed himself and took out someone who actually did bike maintenance? Sports already dangerous. Stupidity ups the ante. 

2
disbanded
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7/12/2024 7:21pm

Try riding wthout a gas cap

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Gravel
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7/12/2024 9:16pm
davis224 wrote:
I'm no expert so someone may correct me, but I imagine they are welded in a jig in the factory and go through some sort of...

I'm no expert so someone may correct me, but I imagine they are welded in a jig in the factory and go through some sort of controlled heat cycle to keep it from warping, and re welding it would just add more heat stress to the area it was already welded (on thin metal)

I'm not sure if his friend just welded the surface of the crack in the rim, but there was probably a crack internally past what was visible going any certain direction that was still there after he welded it. Typically with cracks, you grind it out until you can't see any evidence of the crack, then drill a hole at the end and weld. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing all of that on a MX rim and it still being atructurally sound. If I see a crack, it's trash.

Gravel wrote:
He cut out the cracked area and tig (I think) welded it. It looked pretty good, but didn’t hold. To be fair, the flat landing was...

He cut out the cracked area and tig (I think) welded it. It looked pretty good, but didn’t hold. To be fair, the flat landing was pretty rough, but the lesson was learned about taking care of my wheels. 

davis224 wrote:
I'm sure you've thrown it out by now, but I'd be curious as to where it failed, straight down the middle of the weld, the weld...

I'm sure you've thrown it out by now, but I'd be curious as to where it failed, straight down the middle of the weld, the weld separating drop the parent metal, or the area right next to the weld if it cooled too fast and became brittle.

The entire weld joint failed and separated and the rim collapsed completely. The tire came off. The parts are long gone.. 

Village Idiot
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7/12/2024 9:18pm
disbanded wrote:

Try riding wthout a gas cap

Uh, no.

I've got a couple of friends who would quit hangin' with me if I did that... again.Grinning

1
Radical
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7/13/2024 12:12am
Radical wrote:
I would ride with one broken spoke on either wheel. Any more than that and I'd probably still ride, but not jump far, and just work...

I would ride with one broken spoke on either wheel.

Any more than that and I'd probably still ride, but not jump far, and just work on technique.

I believe rims have a cable inside as well that keeps things together.

For me, if there are any cracks, I'm replacing the rim (and anodizing the hub while it's apart).

I ride a 125 BTW.  They're not too hard on spokes.  A 450 might be different story.

Radical
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7/13/2024 12:14am
disbanded wrote:

Try riding wthout a gas cap

A friend of mine did that.  I laughed st him, but the day was definitely over.

Gravel
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7/13/2024 7:41am
Radical wrote:
I would ride with one broken spoke on either wheel. Any more than that and I'd probably still ride, but not jump far, and just work...

I would ride with one broken spoke on either wheel.

Any more than that and I'd probably still ride, but not jump far, and just work on technique.

I believe rims have a cable inside as well that keeps things together.

For me, if there are any cracks, I'm replacing the rim (and anodizing the hub while it's apart).

I can tell you for sure that there is no “cable” or anything else that keeps the welded rim joint together. It’s just welded. 

Another rim story: the stock back Excel rim on my 06 KTM developed the weld joint crack, about a quarter of the weld had a visible crack. I bummed a new rim from my brother and rebuilt the wheel. Hung the cracked rim on the wall when I probably should’ve trashed it. A few months later when summer hit (it gets hot here, 110+) I heard stuff falling in the garage. Walk out to find that rim on the floor, with the weld joint fully broken and a 2” gap. 

1
TbonesPop
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7/13/2024 7:43am

I tried to ride without gas once.  Bike started cutting out while riding (fortunately it wasn't on a section of track with any jumps).  Couldn't figure out why. Went to the pits.  Started diving in the bike to see what was wrong, pulled my carb, even the subframe and airbox.  Damn near had the bike 1/2 way taken down for a full top end, couldn't figure out what the hell was going on with the bike cutting out.  Checked valves, you name it.  Spent an hour and a half racking my brain.  At one point, I even kicked my bike off the stand like Weston Peick....Then looked at the truck and saw my gas can still in the back of my truck....Checked the gas tank, bone dry.  I'm a moron.  Complete ef'ing moron.  I even apologized to my bike for kicking her off the stand.  Yes I apologized to an inanimate object.  I deserved every bit of shame possible that day....

2
Village Idiot
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7/13/2024 8:14am
TbonesPop wrote:
I tried to ride without gas once.  Bike started cutting out while riding (fortunately it wasn't on a section of track with any jumps).  Couldn't figure...

I tried to ride without gas once.  Bike started cutting out while riding (fortunately it wasn't on a section of track with any jumps).  Couldn't figure out why. Went to the pits.  Started diving in the bike to see what was wrong, pulled my carb, even the subframe and airbox.  Damn near had the bike 1/2 way taken down for a full top end, couldn't figure out what the hell was going on with the bike cutting out.  Checked valves, you name it.  Spent an hour and a half racking my brain.  At one point, I even kicked my bike off the stand like Weston Peick....Then looked at the truck and saw my gas can still in the back of my truck....Checked the gas tank, bone dry.  I'm a moron.  Complete ef'ing moron.  I even apologized to my bike for kicking her off the stand.  Yes I apologized to an inanimate object.  I deserved every bit of shame possible that day....

🤣🤣🤣

1
sandman768
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7/13/2024 8:28am

Next question: how do I fix the hole in the case from the chain derailing after the rear wheel failed…ha ha…if you own an Austrian bike, check spokes before every moto until the bike has about 50hrs on it, when they may or may not eventually stay somewhat tensioned.

FGR01
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7/13/2024 10:06am
TbonesPop wrote:
I just want to know how you completely lose 3 spokes on a wheel.  I've had loose spokes, but never lost one.  Seriously, where the hell...

I just want to know how you completely lose 3 spokes on a wheel.  I've had loose spokes, but never lost one.  Seriously, where the hell would it go?  Lose 1, seems like a freak thing.  Lose 3?  That's mechanical negligence.  

Hint: when washing your bike after riding, wash the wheels and tires really well, and when drying the rims off with a rag (by spinning the wheel), squeeze your spokes with your non-drying hand while rotating your wheel.  If you feel any movement at all, tighten your spokes.  Not rocket science....

Ride a KTM with stock rear spokes at Motoland and consistently hit all the jumps on the main track over and over.  It won’t be long and you’ll be racking up confirmed kills on spokes. 😂 

2
Radical
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7/13/2024 10:11pm
Radical wrote:
I would ride with one broken spoke on either wheel. Any more than that and I'd probably still ride, but not jump far, and just work...

I would ride with one broken spoke on either wheel.

Any more than that and I'd probably still ride, but not jump far, and just work on technique.

I believe rims have a cable inside as well that keeps things together.

For me, if there are any cracks, I'm replacing the rim (and anodizing the hub while it's apart).

Gravel wrote:
I can tell you for sure that there is no “cable” or anything else that keeps the welded rim joint together. It’s just welded.  Another rim...

I can tell you for sure that there is no “cable” or anything else that keeps the welded rim joint together. It’s just welded. 

Another rim story: the stock back Excel rim on my 06 KTM developed the weld joint crack, about a quarter of the weld had a visible crack. I bummed a new rim from my brother and rebuilt the wheel. Hung the cracked rim on the wall when I probably should’ve trashed it. A few months later when summer hit (it gets hot here, 110+) I heard stuff falling in the garage. Walk out to find that rim on the floor, with the weld joint fully broken and a 2” gap. 

That is wild, and a catastrophe avoided!

I believe at some time in my life I've seen a cable inside of a rim.

I always assumed that's the reason you could see a seam, yet the rim held together.  I haven't seen this in a very long time.

1
Village Idiot
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7/14/2024 8:02am
Radical wrote:
I would ride with one broken spoke on either wheel. Any more than that and I'd probably still ride, but not jump far, and just work...

I would ride with one broken spoke on either wheel.

Any more than that and I'd probably still ride, but not jump far, and just work on technique.

I believe rims have a cable inside as well that keeps things together.

For me, if there are any cracks, I'm replacing the rim (and anodizing the hub while it's apart).

Gravel wrote:
I can tell you for sure that there is no “cable” or anything else that keeps the welded rim joint together. It’s just welded.  Another rim...

I can tell you for sure that there is no “cable” or anything else that keeps the welded rim joint together. It’s just welded. 

Another rim story: the stock back Excel rim on my 06 KTM developed the weld joint crack, about a quarter of the weld had a visible crack. I bummed a new rim from my brother and rebuilt the wheel. Hung the cracked rim on the wall when I probably should’ve trashed it. A few months later when summer hit (it gets hot here, 110+) I heard stuff falling in the garage. Walk out to find that rim on the floor, with the weld joint fully broken and a 2” gap. 

Radical wrote:
That is wild, and a catastrophe avoided! I believe at some time in my life I've seen a cable inside of a rim. I always assumed...

That is wild, and a catastrophe avoided!

I believe at some time in my life I've seen a cable inside of a rim.

I always assumed that's the reason you could see a seam, yet the rim held together.  I haven't seen this in a very long time.

Never seen one inside a rim. Maybe the bead of the tire? Seen more than one cut open and they had stranded steel reinforcement.

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