Make amatuer mx better

Skerby
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Mayes County, OK, USA

Went to a race last weekend and was happy to draw motos 2 & 7 out of 24 some classes.

Got me to thinking: what if we just published the moto schedule BEFORE sign up? Everyone with half a brain will sign up for the early motos so they can go home at a decent time, and then just cancel whatever races nobody signs up for. 

Downvote away, Im gonna die on this hill.

31
1
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6/24/2024 12:50pm

I actually really like this idea.  Motos 10 and 13 this weekend we not ideal for sure.  If I could have picked say 3 and 6 I sure would have.

lumpy790
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York, SC, USA
6/24/2024 1:11pm

tracks juggle the order around to try and accommodate riders that are racing in multiple classes so they are not back to back.

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yz133rider
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6/24/2024 1:13pm
lumpy790 wrote:

tracks juggle the order around to try and accommodate riders that are racing in multiple classes so they are not back to back.

Riders wouldn’t have to race multiple classes if they’d just make the damn motos long enough to give folks their fill, nobody races multiple classes off-road 1.5-2hr races.

 

theres no making amateur racing better without scrapping 90% of the format and thought processes.

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zehn
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6/24/2024 1:13pm

Idk having 3 dudes sit around all day waiting to race for guaranteed plastic trophies is kinda fun though 

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1

The Shop

Tumic
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Sundsvall, SE
6/24/2024 1:15pm

Why do you even need 1000 classes running 5 lap motos? 

21
ACBraap
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Fantasy
6/24/2024 1:34pm

Cycling does this.  You know when your start time will be, sign up online, quick check in, and then head to your start.  For races with a ton of events all day long, like moto, they sometimes set the schedule the same for the entire season.  Then next year, they are rotated so that it's not always the same class having to get there early or stay late.

Falcon
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Menifee, CA, USA
6/24/2024 2:08pm
zehn wrote:

Idk having 3 dudes sit around all day waiting to race for guaranteed plastic trophies is kinda fun though 

At my track they only gave trophies to the top 1/3rd, period. Only 3 guys in the class? It's winner take all. Now THAT's fun! 

1
64smoker
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6/24/2024 2:44pm

I really don’t get why there is that many groups , apart from the obvious the money it makes zero sense , 4-5 lap motos aswell seems ridiculous 

2
cwtoyota
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6/24/2024 2:56pm Edited Date/Time 6/24/2024 2:57pm
lumpy790 wrote:

tracks juggle the order around to try and accommodate riders that are racing in multiple classes so they are not back to back.

I've thought about this problem and there is a way to mostly solve it.

Do a statistical analysis of how riders blend between classes.   

Obviously nobody is riding the 65cc 9-11 class and the 50+ Masters.   
A statistical analysis will show the ones that are not so obvious.

Most motocross promoters and tracks don't have a degree in statistics, so ask ChatGPT to do it for you based on your entry lists or race results from the previous year(s).

The racers will self-mitigate this issue to some extent.   
Most of us will avoid signing up for classes that are back to back or classes that are at the extreme opposite ends of the day's schedule.



There's no good solution that preserves the 33 different classes and divisions with five lap motos.
If there was a series that charged $100 to enter a class, combined classes and raced two 25+2 or 30+2 motos, I would be all over it.  The track gets the same entry money they do when we all race two different classes, but they don't have to drop the gate as many times or produce as many trophies...   

Hot take:  I don't think the average motocross racer is fit enough or interested in 30 minute motos.

9
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yz133rider
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6/24/2024 3:14pm
lumpy790 wrote:

tracks juggle the order around to try and accommodate riders that are racing in multiple classes so they are not back to back.

cwtoyota wrote:
I've thought about this problem and there is a way to mostly solve it. Do a statistical analysis of how riders blend between classes.    Obviously...

I've thought about this problem and there is a way to mostly solve it.

Do a statistical analysis of how riders blend between classes.   

Obviously nobody is riding the 65cc 9-11 class and the 50+ Masters.   
A statistical analysis will show the ones that are not so obvious.

Most motocross promoters and tracks don't have a degree in statistics, so ask ChatGPT to do it for you based on your entry lists or race results from the previous year(s).

The racers will self-mitigate this issue to some extent.   
Most of us will avoid signing up for classes that are back to back or classes that are at the extreme opposite ends of the day's schedule.



There's no good solution that preserves the 33 different classes and divisions with five lap motos.
If there was a series that charged $100 to enter a class, combined classes and raced two 25+2 or 30+2 motos, I would be all over it.  The track gets the same entry money they do when we all race two different classes, but they don't have to drop the gate as many times or produce as many trophies...   

Hot take:  I don't think the average motocross racer is fit enough or interested in 30 minute motos.

How can off-road have huge turnouts for 90-120 minute races and motocrossers aren’t fit enough for 25 minute motos? Stop sprinting…

6
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cdm806
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Locke, NY, USA
6/24/2024 3:29pm

How about not having 24 classes?  250f/125t A/B/C, 450f/250t A,B,C, 50 shaft, 50 chain, 65, 85, Girls under 12, Women 12+, Schoolboy, Vet A, Vet B/C.  15 motos x2 and go home.  Sounds good to me. Not everybody needs a trophy, but the promoters want your $50 per class, so nothing will change

 

16
cwtoyota
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6/24/2024 3:34pm
lumpy790 wrote:

tracks juggle the order around to try and accommodate riders that are racing in multiple classes so they are not back to back.

cwtoyota wrote:
I've thought about this problem and there is a way to mostly solve it. Do a statistical analysis of how riders blend between classes.    Obviously...

I've thought about this problem and there is a way to mostly solve it.

Do a statistical analysis of how riders blend between classes.   

Obviously nobody is riding the 65cc 9-11 class and the 50+ Masters.   
A statistical analysis will show the ones that are not so obvious.

Most motocross promoters and tracks don't have a degree in statistics, so ask ChatGPT to do it for you based on your entry lists or race results from the previous year(s).

The racers will self-mitigate this issue to some extent.   
Most of us will avoid signing up for classes that are back to back or classes that are at the extreme opposite ends of the day's schedule.



There's no good solution that preserves the 33 different classes and divisions with five lap motos.
If there was a series that charged $100 to enter a class, combined classes and raced two 25+2 or 30+2 motos, I would be all over it.  The track gets the same entry money they do when we all race two different classes, but they don't have to drop the gate as many times or produce as many trophies...   

Hot take:  I don't think the average motocross racer is fit enough or interested in 30 minute motos.

yz133rider wrote:

How can off-road have huge turnouts for 90-120 minute races and motocrossers aren’t fit enough for 25 minute motos? Stop sprinting…

I don't disagree with you.

The expectations of moto guys would have to change to run a pair of 30+2 motos.
Likely for most fellas that translates to "stop sprinting".

Moto guys are sprinting because that's what suits the five lap format...
These days, we stack in so many classes that sometimes they're giving us four or even three lap motos to get through the program before dark or to get everyone home at a decent time.

yz133rider
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6/24/2024 3:37pm
cwtoyota wrote:
I've thought about this problem and there is a way to mostly solve it. Do a statistical analysis of how riders blend between classes.    Obviously...

I've thought about this problem and there is a way to mostly solve it.

Do a statistical analysis of how riders blend between classes.   

Obviously nobody is riding the 65cc 9-11 class and the 50+ Masters.   
A statistical analysis will show the ones that are not so obvious.

Most motocross promoters and tracks don't have a degree in statistics, so ask ChatGPT to do it for you based on your entry lists or race results from the previous year(s).

The racers will self-mitigate this issue to some extent.   
Most of us will avoid signing up for classes that are back to back or classes that are at the extreme opposite ends of the day's schedule.



There's no good solution that preserves the 33 different classes and divisions with five lap motos.
If there was a series that charged $100 to enter a class, combined classes and raced two 25+2 or 30+2 motos, I would be all over it.  The track gets the same entry money they do when we all race two different classes, but they don't have to drop the gate as many times or produce as many trophies...   

Hot take:  I don't think the average motocross racer is fit enough or interested in 30 minute motos.

yz133rider wrote:

How can off-road have huge turnouts for 90-120 minute races and motocrossers aren’t fit enough for 25 minute motos? Stop sprinting…

cwtoyota wrote:
I don't disagree with you. The expectations of moto guys would have to change to run a pair of 30+2 motos. Likely for most fellas that...

I don't disagree with you.

The expectations of moto guys would have to change to run a pair of 30+2 motos.
Likely for most fellas that translates to "stop sprinting".

Moto guys are sprinting because that's what suits the five lap format...
These days, we stack in so many classes that sometimes they're giving us four or even three lap motos to get through the program before dark or to get everyone home at a decent time.

It’s truly embarrassing.

 

the same folks racing a 3 lap moto are the same spewing off about how hardcore and how moto riders are the fittest on earth.

 

3 lap motos suck.

12
6/24/2024 3:49pm

I’d pay 80 bucks (gate fee included) for 2 20+2’s and a 10 minute practice…… 

6
yz133rider
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6/24/2024 3:51pm Edited Date/Time 6/24/2024 4:11pm

I’d pay 80 bucks (gate fee included) for 2 20+2’s and a 10 minute practice…… 

I’d pay 100 all in for that. Maybe even $125 for 25+2’s. 

2
Meister
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Canton, OH, USA
6/24/2024 8:05pm

Check out the MERP series here in Ohio. Its gained a ton of traction and is working very well!

3
6/24/2024 8:18pm
Tumic wrote:

Why do you even need 1000 classes running 5 lap motos? 

Because contingency and more laps. 

JMR1976
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6/24/2024 8:18pm Edited Date/Time 6/24/2024 8:19pm

Less classes more laps. That would raise entry fees and everyone would get upset. 

3
oceantrav
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6/24/2024 8:26pm

My kid will race up to 5 classes, so no matter what we’re there till the end.

It is what it is. 

2
ThatOneKid
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Pittsburgh, PA, USA
6/24/2024 8:28pm

I raced High Point’s Sunday Amateur day, I was moto 27 of 31. I had originally signed up for two classes but took a hard fall in the Friday practice and decided to just do one class. Unfortunately that meant I had a long Sunday for 2 different times on the track.

Sign ups started late, practice started late, and I didn’t race my first moto until after 2:00. We had an RV rental to return so we ended up skipping moto 2. I kept an eye on the live timing and if we had waited, the 2nd moto for my class would have run at 6:30, and that was also after they cut the 2nd motos to 3 laps. 

One of the biggest problems was all of the 50 classes not being able to make it around the track, so they would take a break and fix the track before all of their motos. At that point make the 50s all at one block on the schedule, and fix the track once since they wont’ beat it up much. 

Thankfully I practiced Friday and got a decent bit of seat time in, and yes racing Sunday was fun and the track was awesome, but man was it a lot of sitting around. 

8
Soul Indigo
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6/24/2024 10:15pm
ThatOneKid wrote:
I raced High Point’s Sunday Amateur day, I was moto 27 of 31. I had originally signed up for two classes but took a hard fall...

I raced High Point’s Sunday Amateur day, I was moto 27 of 31. I had originally signed up for two classes but took a hard fall in the Friday practice and decided to just do one class. Unfortunately that meant I had a long Sunday for 2 different times on the track.

Sign ups started late, practice started late, and I didn’t race my first moto until after 2:00. We had an RV rental to return so we ended up skipping moto 2. I kept an eye on the live timing and if we had waited, the 2nd moto for my class would have run at 6:30, and that was also after they cut the 2nd motos to 3 laps. 

One of the biggest problems was all of the 50 classes not being able to make it around the track, so they would take a break and fix the track before all of their motos. At that point make the 50s all at one block on the schedule, and fix the track once since they wont’ beat it up much. 

Thankfully I practiced Friday and got a decent bit of seat time in, and yes racing Sunday was fun and the track was awesome, but man was it a lot of sitting around. 

That’s so lame man. Especially for a national promoter. THE national promoter.
 

There’s no real incentive for local promoters to have an efficient schedule/day/operation. Cutting laps by 25% in one moto doesn’t result in a 12.5% refund.

5
1
6/24/2024 10:22pm

I’d pay 80 bucks (gate fee included) for 2 20+2’s and a 10 minute practice…… 

yz133rider wrote:

I’d pay 100 all in for that. Maybe even $125 for 25+2’s. 

Oh come on. No body wants to see an endurance Mx race.  There’s no pro ever that sprinted at 100% for 25 min. Larocco even only sprinted a lap or 2 at a time. Races should never be ovr 5 laps. Ever hear of the 14 + A class Wi. Has it now. To still not done I walked around the huge bldg probably 30 co.s here in Chicago. A Hot Polish chic leaving the office needed a jump start. I usually don’t because it screws up the vehicle. Sure enough it took my alternator out & voltage reg. My L6040e trans won’t shift & volt gauge is not building volts. 7 days of break downs in not even 3 weeks. 

12
yz133rider
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6/25/2024 2:16am

I’d pay 80 bucks (gate fee included) for 2 20+2’s and a 10 minute practice…… 

yz133rider wrote:

I’d pay 100 all in for that. Maybe even $125 for 25+2’s. 

Oh come on. No body wants to see an endurance Mx race.  There’s no pro ever that sprinted at 100% for 25 min. Larocco even only...

Oh come on. No body wants to see an endurance Mx race.  There’s no pro ever that sprinted at 100% for 25 min. Larocco even only sprinted a lap or 2 at a time. Races should never be ovr 5 laps. Ever hear of the 14 + A class Wi. Has it now. To still not done I walked around the huge bldg probably 30 co.s here in Chicago. A Hot Polish chic leaving the office needed a jump start. I usually don’t because it screws up the vehicle. Sure enough it took my alternator out & voltage reg. My L6040e trans won’t shift & volt gauge is not building volts. 7 days of break downs in not even 3 weeks. 

Nobody goes to watch any of this I have news for you. But those of us who race, would actually like to spend some Time on the track as opposed to the fold up chair waiting for our next turn…

5
cwel11
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Orangeville, PA, USA
6/25/2024 3:02am

Don’t mean to hijack the thread but my biggest gripe is how LL’s completely screws up the class structure in local amateur racing.  C class top guys running faster times than B because they won’t move up. Gotta qualify to go to the one race a year that people pretend is the holy grail of our sport. It’s got local racing so screwed up. Right now my son runs schoolboy 1 and 125c (we have no option for 125b) Next year he’ll most likely move up to the 250f and other than SB2 or college boy our options for 250 suck. 250C is now a dangerous mix of squids and sandbaggers. He’s been riding since 4 and is far from a novice. 250B is a better option and where he should belong if we consider B intermediate like it’s supposed to be. The problem there is he won’t be competitive because those guys are now running A level times because LL. I don’t have the answer how to fix it but it for sure needs fixed. Novice, Intermediate, and Expert don’t exactly translate to C,B,A anymore. 

18
Phil109
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Montgomery, TX, USA
6/25/2024 3:39am

I quit racing in my late 20’s because of this problem. To many classes and you sit around all day to run 8-16 laps. Like forget it. At the end I’d run 2-3 classes. Race the first motos then load up my shit and go mingle then head home around 3 lol. The final part was I practiced around most the people that showed up to race the local A class and I already knew where I stacked up so what was even the point. 
 

The one track I did used to ride mostly would run an iron man class. Anyone could sign up and it was like one 30 min moto. That was fun. 

1
dirtcan
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Sherbrooke, QC, CA
6/25/2024 4:22am Edited Date/Time 6/25/2024 4:24am

It’s been the same problem for a long time now and it does’nt seem like promoters want to start moving the other directions with classes.The races of my local series are 9min+1. Just in vet class we have 30+A-B-C, 40+, 50+ and 60+. No vet classes are full and I’m pretty sure that very few vet guys are running another class. It wouldn’t be hard to cut a few classes and spread that saved time amongst the classes that are left. 

2
6/25/2024 4:52am
dirtcan wrote:
It’s been the same problem for a long time now and it does’nt seem like promoters want to start moving the other directions with classes.The races...

It’s been the same problem for a long time now and it does’nt seem like promoters want to start moving the other directions with classes.The races of my local series are 9min+1. Just in vet class we have 30+A-B-C, 40+, 50+ and 60+. No vet classes are full and I’m pretty sure that very few vet guys are running another class. It wouldn’t be hard to cut a few classes and spread that saved time amongst the classes that are left. 

It seems pretty common around here that a lot of the vet guys race 2 classes.  I do wish we wo go back to just a simple open age groups and drop the B/C classes.  We always have more guys in the B/C and the front guys would be in the mix with the regular age group.

1
6/25/2024 5:58am

Are these tracks not combining gates? I.E. Race 4 gate drop 1 and gate drop 2.

If each small class is getting the entire gate to itself, then yes that's stupid.

yz133rider
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6/25/2024 6:01am
Are these tracks not combining gates? I.E. Race 4 gate drop 1 and gate drop 2. If each small class is getting the entire gate to...

Are these tracks not combining gates? I.E. Race 4 gate drop 1 and gate drop 2.

If each small class is getting the entire gate to itself, then yes that's stupid.

They can combine like 3 or 4 gates typically before they’d have 40 riders.

 

the entire system has to be scrapped but it’s so deep into the Loretta’s class system it’ll never go.

5
mx 219
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South Central, PA, USA
6/25/2024 6:36am

In addition to less classes and more laps I think 1 thing that would make amateur mx better is a series of races, rather than have Loretta's be THE race that counts, have it be one of the races that counts. Maybe have it be the final round of  5 race series. 

1

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