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Explain to me how UTVs / ATVs / PWCs aren't things like a dirt bike.
COBRA, MICHIGAN.
You do realize that Kymco makes the cylinders for KTM for their 2 stroke dirt bikes these days, right? And, no, they haven't proven to be equal in quality to the Austrian manufactured parts, so far...
I think Japan has all of those things?
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The Kymco cylinders have been solid. It's the new Elko (Austria) cylinders that have had a spate of issue recently.
That "very large scale car manufacturing industry" is a mere shadow of what it once was. A drive thru Detroit/Cleveland/Rust Belt is very eye opening for anyone who thinks the legacy American car industry is still vibrant. Most of the "American" cars are now made in Mexico (Ford) or China (Chevrolet) or owned by a European conglomerate (Dodge/Chrysler/Ram by Stellantis). The REAL American made cars today (Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, etc) are manufactured in mostly non-union plants scattered throughout the Southern U.S...for now. There is a huge push afoot from the UAW to unionize those plants.
I've been hoping that Can-am would get back into making Dirtbikes. Artic Cat had a 450 snow bike they were developing at one point.
The US and Canadian SXS's and ATV's might be selling well, and be high performance. But the Japanese versions are built to last and have fewer reliability issues than any of the North American made brands. For whatever reason the Japanese brands have decided not to build SXS's that are on the same level performance wise. They have some solid offerings. But nothing in the same class as those 30K SXS's . Rumor is that Kawasaki will have a supercharged Teryx . That might push it into the same class as the Pro XP and X3. But Can-am has their Maverick R with a 7 speed dual clutch trans and 200 HP, and a great chassis. The Japanese brands do not have anything close when stock. 112 HP YXZ , similar for the Talon. And on just about every forum for those 30K 40 50K Sxs's You'll see many people say that they wish that Honda ,Yamaha or Kawasaki would make something with Suspension and power on par with the Polaris and Can-am's . Many say that if there was a similar class machine that was from one of those brands they would jump on it.
I don't know if the Japanese are not making anything in that class because its so hard to make something that is not going to break every other ride. That has that power and suspension , with random guys beating the crap out of them. Or maybe they want to stay conservative after Honda had their trouble with 3 wheelers and Yamaha with the Rhino. But for whatever reason, Polaris and Can-am , Speed SXS to a degree now, are just competing against each other. I have a Wildcat XX and its under rated . Super strong and OK power. Ahead of its time. But without a turbo, people just don't consider it like they do the SXS's with big HP numbers and a payment plan with factory warranty and full coverage insurance.
A lot of words to pretty much say, those machines that are North American brands, do not have any competition from anybody but each other right now.
I was hoping Alta was going to be around for a longtime. And I do hope that there is a US built MX bike in the future. I think that an Electric MX bike might be easier to build in the US than a Gas powered bike. So many fewer parts to cast, machine , etc. I could see the electric MX bike market become like the bicycle market .
It's the economy of scale for those things. They outsell dirt bikes and the profit margins are probably off the chart for the manufacturers. And shipping costs also probably make them prohibitive to manufacture elsewhere since this is by far the largest market for 4 wheelers.
Good thing someone makes them because motorcycle sales certainly aren't keeping the Japanese dealers healthy anymore.
Honda did make Goldwings and 1980 CR250s in the Marysville, OH plant when it first opened. It's believe it's all automotive now and has been for quite a while.
The Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki UTVs are made in America.
But they are "things like a dirt bike." They are mostly made in USA, and doing so hasn't "sacrificed a significant quality of life." There are plenty of cheap Chinese ATVs. CFMoto is making some good stuff. But folks are ponying up for the expensive ones.
There's no reason that a dirt bike couldn't be made under the same conditions
Both riders were from OK - makes sense!
Crazy to think what could have been….if those bikes make it through a GNCC, regardless of finish position, that’s a hell of an accomplishment!
Can Am and Polaris buy engines and components from elsewhere, and if they ever made a dirt bike, I would hope you guys would have the sense not to buy it.
The point was more that the big money SXS's don't have a Japanese designed or built competition. At the top of the line, the highest performance versions , there are only 2 options( Can-am, Polaris ) and they are all North American based companies. They might pull the people in and help sell the lower performance versions. But also until just recently, on the utility side the Japanese brands have not had a loaded Utility SXS with Heat/AC etc. So a ranchers options were pretty much John Deere, Kubota, Polaris ,Bobcat or Can-am . No Japanese brand had anything in that segment either. They lead by building luxury or higher HP, longer travel suspension.
I do think there could be a more limited market for a high dollar US built MX bike. A big benefit those SXS's have is that Your wife can come with You. And You can say it is for both of You. Or if its a 4 seater the entire family can all enjoy it. VS dad blowing 30K on an MX bike. Its going to be a more limited market. It already smaller and more saturated VS the UTV and ATV segments the US brands lead in. There are so many brands building MX bikes and 3 building high dollar high performance SXS's. Kawasaki seems like the only Japanese brand that wants to challenge the US brands with luxury and sport segments. But so far they only have that new Ridge for the luxury utility segment. And nothing for the big power high performance, other than the rumors.
The markets are so different, MX bikes VS ATV's SXS's and Jet skis. A family can share and enjoy all of those , but its much harder to share the MX bike with the entire family.
Jimmy Ellis, Donnie Hansen, and Jim Holley all road the Canned-Ham 🙂
Actually the riders are Swedes.
I seem to remember that those early, and most successful, Can-am’s were actually made by Canadian Bombardier?
https://www.canned-ham.com/mx/
Here's a nice article about them 🙂
French Canadian yes. My employer races them, we have to replace the front differential after every race
Pit Row
The government likes to make sure they get their cut ...and then some.
I'm not against financing toys. The reason being that if you wait to save up 5-12k for a bike, a lot of people will grow old before ever being able to enjoy the sport, or many other things that are costly.
I had been wanting another dirt bike for many years, but in 1993 I went into a shop to look around, and came out with a used bike, and a loan. All things considered (marriage, kids, new career, house, etc...), if I hadn't bought that day, I wouldn't have had the money for probably another decade.
I didn't ride a lot during that time, but the time I rode was well worth the small amount of interest I paid.
So, I'm in favor of using credit responsibly in order to live your dream.
Jeez, about time. There’s a thread on US made moto and it took almost the second page to mention Gary Jones’ Ammex
I am super interested to see how Dust Moto grows into new American built dirtbike brand. Their instagram and blog is very open with their development. I wish I knew about them for the Founder 50 program.
I am really interested to see how Dust and Stark develop over the next few years.
People have commented on AMMEX not necessarily being Murican…but, Gary did it out of SoCal,and…yes…the bikes were largely Mexican.,,but, it was an American company.
I remember when the Honda ATV’s and CR were being assembled there not sure how many years the CR line lasted though.
Its still the same company. BRP is the parent company . Bombardier Recreational Products . They own Can-am ,Lynx, Skidoo, Seadoo, Rotax, Alumacraft , Manitou , and Quintex brands.
https://www.brp.com/en/our-company.html
I would love to see Can-am bring back a line of Dirtbikes . To have the name revived with a legit line up of bikes. But the fit and finish, long term durability of the Polaris and some Arctic Cat and Can-am vehicles is off from what the Japanese brands offer right now. They win customers by having the big HP, high travel suspension, and they do perform well . But kind of like a Suzuki from the 1980's VS what You get these days. I wouldn't want the US brands to follow the same model of Bigger is better and try applying it towards MX bikes with durability and fit and finish often taking a backseat. .
Yes but we will be shipping them to the rich nation of pakistan from our poor nation.
Bmw is the biggest auto exporter from the USA
Just the 1980 CR250 during that first year that Marysville, OH plant was open.
From the South Carolina plant that the UAW is desperately trying to unionize right now.
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