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My question is why sue the property owners? They aren't responsible for the layout. Moto is gnarly, they know that better than anyone.
Originally that's the one I thought it was, but it was the other one on the main track. This one had the kids track being right below it.
So basically the wavers we all sign at the track when we sign up are useless?
I honestly feel there’s quite a bit of reasonable thinking in this post.
Also, Rick Ryan KNOWS risky dangerous stuff when he sees it. Back in his day…and before t was called “Free Riding”, he would huck crazy natural terrain jumps up & down hills and over gaps. He knows what’s too damn dangerous and what’s not.
All that aside…when I’ve worked with SOMEONE-ELSE’S KIDS at the track or out riding…I pre-run the course and/or WALK THE TRACK WITH THEM & I see what they’re looking at.
So, I’m left wondering HOW this kid…these kids…were allowed to race this course if they’re there with RESPONSIBLE PARENTS…? Yes, you can say that this isn’t a very nice observation or that it’s after the fact…
But, there’s just one problem…
This DANGEROUS. CONDITION WAS OBSERVED BEFORE THE FACT by at least ONE RESPONSIBLE PARENT.
On the other hand: in some cases, I don’t think we’ve given enough credit to Rich having to watch his kid get put back together over almost a decade.
What we do is dangerous. Complete and total negligence BY ANYONE INVOLVED DOESN’T HELP.
Suing the facilities certainly doesn’t help, either.
This situation is soooooo fucked. I’m left feeling pretty damn heart broken for the little dude that’s all busted up. Let’s not forget him and HOW he got that way. Sure, he’s grown, now…but, it’s obviously been a tough road. Fuck, that’s just sad.
Rich, I’m sorry for your boy. But, I’m also disappointed in your actions.
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It actually could be that. My bad. Can't watch video at the moment.
A completely rational response.
LEAVE!!!!
I have seen many tracks not listen and some that do listen about concerns. However, I do feel that if there is something about a track that I or any rider feels is dangerous, and we still decide to ride the track it is our responsibility to NOT send it under those circumstances. Meaning, take it easy and do not try to win or race fast. At a certain point a rider has to be responsible as well as the track owner.
Great statement and explanation, just falls short, there is no expectation of normal injury or beyond the norm injury, I belive paperwork for years states: injury and or death can be the result, that's as final as it can get Death.
You are given the right to ride the track, inspect and reject
and i guess you didn't.
Lawsuit is unacceptable.
Yes that is it according to ML from the other thread. I asked the same question and he confirmed it is at the 1:10 mark.
The waiver he signed: Severe injury or death can occur, motocross is a dangerous sport (obviously paraphrased). We ALL sign that every time we race or even practice.
Rich after the fact: Well I didn't know you were actually serious.
The fact Manny isn't defending an industry guy is all I need to know! 😂😉
You are wrong. Being an AMA sanctioned race gets you a discounted rate on your insurance, but the policies are through an outside company. I buy insurance for a track.
This place is worse than Farcebook for clipping posts...haha
I am not familiar with LACR other than the few minutes I spent on Google Earth just now. I am attaching a screenshot that says it is from April of 2017. The only image they had of 2017. The track looks the same in the 8/2018 image and then is changed in the 9/2018 image. After looking at the past images from as far back as the 90's. You can see that it is made in a sandpit and lots of earth has been moved. It is hard to tell much from this image as far as elevation change goes. The elevation's that Google gives do not change with each image, so I do not know how to know when they are from. But can somebody show us where the dangerous section is/was?
A few years ago, there was a racer that lost their life at a local track after going over a berm and off a large drop. They changed the track layout after that. If there was a big drop that close to the berm, maybe they could have moved the turn farther up the straight. Shortening the straight and giving more runoff before the drop. Or I'm sure other ways could work. The track in Main changed the layout to avoid the large natural drop. I am not trying to defend anybody , just interested in seeing the area. And perhaps other tracks could see it and be able to learn from this and make changes before something bad happens.
Yes the sport is very dangerous. And it sucks that a track has been sued, I always try and find a positive thing in everything. In this case perhaps other tracks can learn something. Perhaps requiring a track walk, or Maybe some of the Nets that they have in Supercross?
I think what makes me equally as upset is the people that are defending him that are supposed to be our media. We have ML, and Matthes (2 of biggest media figures in the sport) all trying to control the narrative when the story dropped and even going as far as to lie by omission for RT. You are the people that should be telling us news like this, not lying and helping to cover up. I'll give ML credit, at least he didn't delete the original thread, but he did try to steer the narrative and cast aspersions on the messenger rather than just letting us figure out what's going on.
Then we have Matthes directing the narrative to "how do you know he wasn't forced to sue by the insurance" when he is close to RT and likely know exactly what happened and have known for a while. This is a sad state, when if it was anyone other than a friend and monthly $$check, they would likely be reporting on a staple of the industry suing a track. Good to see RT's ad dollars extends far beyond banners. All three have literally been his PR team during this. Kind of gross.
Taking this a slightly different direction - I know tracks are already operating on a very thin margin, so upgrading in tech isn’t always desirable. That said, considering the vulnerabilities it seems like an electronic waiver system you complete once annually, and then use drivers license to check in with would be ideal. Hundreds of track trips and not once has anybody confirmed I am who I say I am, or enforced that everybody in my vehicle sign. Our local trampoline park(s) have vastly more sophisticated systems, with quite less risk for injury. I Moto dad pretty hard and really wish there was enough revenue to where the tracks could upgrade systems, facilities, etc… but, it’s really a terrible business model that doesn’t afford this - requires a ton of land, equipment, maintenance labor and water to charge a $35 gate fee, that we all bitch and complain about. That said, regardless of this incident it seems like tracks on non-sovereign land in SoCal will all eventually evaporate. Sad state of affairs for this sport.
Makes me wonder if they were under insured ? $400K sounds more like fuck you money than cover our medical bills money. The whole thing sucks and I feel bad for the son and the whole family for that matter, that was a life changer. But..... come on, almost every track has a "Do not fuck up here" spot. I remember riding the former lemon grove / Piru track and thinking holy shit don't fly off the track there, you'll drop 20 feet onto the lower section with guys going the opposite way. Almost every track has a "Spot" where if you launch off the track it's a guaranteed less than ideal situation. The way it's described it sounds like it's a "Straight down vertical drop" on the other side of the berm. You can only stack sand and dirt so steep, if someone launches over a berm with any kind of speed of course they'll clear the "grade" holding up the dirt ? Tracks aren't built on big mattresses. Sad situation all the way around but come on it isn't soccer, if anyone knows the risks involved in this sport it's them.
As a dude that’s been called a “cock-holster” by Steve…I’ve still got to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was thinking out loud when making comments or speculations about the “how’s and whys” of the suit in the very beginning.
And, yes, I would expect him and ALL other moto-journos to dig up the truth AND REPORT ON IT…simply for the sake of their journo & personal integrity and the sake of our sport.
The “ass covering” in our sport is a problem at times. Hell, I’ve been accused of it for merely passing info on or giving into my own perspective.
Just for some history on LACR. In the 80s/90's the track was on flat ground, there was no pit there. My dad has early pictures riding there when the track was sand and it was brutal(wish we had something like that now). Somewhere around mid to late 2000's the pit became part of the track, but the majority was still up on flat ground. 2010 or 2011 the track closed for The Granite Company to mine the area. 2014 I believe is when it started to reopen with the pit being the parking area and where most of the tracks are now.
Pit Row
On last night's show he brought it up read the statement then backed Rich.
Has Maeda talked about it anywhere? I haven't seen anything from him yet, but I also haven't looked.
Cover up? I corrected false facts in the original video by Cooksey and stated a point that the lawsuit could be insurance-based but also said I have no facts on that and just stated it's a possibility, and to wait until more facts came out. I stated everyone needs to read everything and come up with their opinion on the situation.
I called the track, they didn't want to talk about it and Rich held off until he spoke to his lawyer then sent the statement in this thread.
The original thread has remained minus two things. One post that had a lot of Rich's personal info in it (cell phone and home address, which is fucked up) and modified the post that had Cooksey's video in it. If you wanna watch his stuff, go to youtube, I don't even want to earn a pre-roll off his videos being on my site after the last text he sent me threatening harm to my life.
I could see that when I looked through the images. There were some missing so the timeline was hard to know. Thanks for the info. If You have the desktop version of Google earth You can go back and see satellite images of the track back in the mid 90's and then almost every year between. Wild to see how much material was removed.
The image was not showing up when I first posted that reply. I think I fixed it. I don't know why it wasn't there the first time though so it might still be missing.
One day two summers ago, I drove nearly 3 hours to meet some friends at a track. When I got there, I have to admit that I was a little intimidated by all the big jumps and lack of prep and flaggers. As I was unloading my bike, I saw a guy crash and then get landed on by the next guy to come over the jump. At that point, I loaded my bike back up, got my practice fee refunded, and drove home. That is what responsible people do when they don’t think a track is safe. They don’t sign a waiver then come back and sue when things don’t go their way. People like RT get tracks shut down. I’ll be tossing all my goggles as soon as my new Scotts show up.
Here's an old aerial shot. 2000-2001 I believe, when I first raced there. Such an awesome place! Dunestown GP used both tracks and connected them via the old drag strip you seeing poking out the left side of the image. 6th gear pinned on my '01 RM125 on asphalt was interesting!
What I said about you. " I'll give ML credit, at least he didn't delete the original thread, but he did try to steer the narrative and cast aspersions on the messenger rather than just letting us figure out what's going on."
And that's exactly what you did. You've edited the post since, but you came in hot trying to make it about what Cooksey got wrong and not the lawsuit, and you did all you could to blame the track, and the insurance company. I don't know how much you knew before that, but you definitely tried to steer the narrative in RT's favor.
Donn, Steve can call me whatever he wants. I never did anything to him, but that's his right. I've definitely been called worse than a cock holster.
I walked away from this sport on my own terms and love being "just a fan" for now. A big reason I left is the silent control the industry has over people in it and the incestuous nature of the business side. There's zero chance I would've reported something like this on a Rich Taylor if I was still a hard card member of the sport. The pile on from the aforementioned media members and others in the sport would not have been worth it. All that is made very clear in a situation like this when you see media people doing all they can to keep the truth from the fans.
Man I miss the GP's! They were the best. So was Saturday night racing during Summer.
Thank You for digging and getting an answer .
wait - Cliff's notes please. What did Cooksey report that has turned out to be untrue? And are we supporting or grabbing pitchforks for this dad? From what I can tell, he knew the berm was unsafe, reported it, and then sent Jr out there who was hurt on the very corner. Right?
Pro-Rich or anti-Rich, we've got to keep things factual. Rich did not report it...per ML's second post, the person who reported it was a former pro racer who reported it to a track worker.
I didnt watch the Cooksey video, but from what I gathered
untrue
Dad racing for son
Mammoth qualifier not lorettas
From what I can tell, he knew the berm was unsafe, reported it, and then sent Jr out there who was hurt on the very corner. Right?
Not accurate from Richs statement. Rick Ryan reported the corner as being unsafe, Rich didn't seem to know anything about the track his son was racing on. It was only unsafe to Rich when his son got hurt on it
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