SoCal MX.. Pro novices

4/22/2024 3:09pm
NSP139 wrote:

Yep novice LOL!

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Not the first time that's happened.  Some kid showed up around 2016 to race a CMC event at Glen Helen. Signed up for 450 Novice with...

Not the first time that's happened. 

Some kid showed up around 2016 to race a CMC event at Glen Helen. Signed up for 450 Novice with us. First moto he won but I didn't see him because I was told we were second gate(which was wrong). Second moto I got the holeshot and held the kid off for about half a lap until he dropped the rest of us and I finished a very distant second. He was faster than the intermediates and running pro lap times. Turns out he was a pro from Argentina.

NSP139 wrote:
Seems like this kid's been doing it for a while nobody cares they just want his entry fee until the parents racing that class speak up...

Seems like this kid's been doing it for a while nobody cares they just want his entry fee until the parents racing that class speak up nothing will happen🤷‍♂️

Most won't speak up because they are doing the same thing.

crf250pilot
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Manning, OR, USA
4/22/2024 3:12pm Edited Date/Time 4/22/2024 3:13pm
need2ride wrote:
I see a lot of people that race Masters in socal vetmx series in the intermediate classes. It's pretty standard around here you drop down 2...

I see a lot of people that race Masters in socal vetmx series in the intermediate classes. It's pretty standard around here you drop down 2 classes for the big events. 

That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2 classes down, so I felt pretty good with my 4th place finish and 3 holeshots out of 5 motos. 

4/22/2024 3:20pm
need2ride wrote:
I see a lot of people that race Masters in socal vetmx series in the intermediate classes. It's pretty standard around here you drop down 2...

I see a lot of people that race Masters in socal vetmx series in the intermediate classes. It's pretty standard around here you drop down 2 classes for the big events. 

That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2...

That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2 classes down, so I felt pretty good with my 4th place finish and 3 holeshots out of 5 motos. 

Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would with say Swap Moto or others?

NSP139
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4/22/2024 3:41pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Just clicked the kids name. Worst finish was a 4th in 250 Novice in 2021 at 2Stroke Nationals. Raced 250 Novice and Open Novice 2020, 2021...

Just clicked the kids name. Worst finish was a 4th in 250 Novice in 2021 at 2Stroke Nationals. Raced 250 Novice and Open Novice 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023 and now 2024.

 

Kid that got third is a family friends kid and started racing 250Int and Open Int at REM in February.

NSP139 wrote:

So he races intermediate on the rem track but drops back down to novice for the national?

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Just recently moved up to Intermediate at REM. I'm guessing he was signed up for the 2 Stroke Nationals before moving up at REM though.

Simple conversation could have got him moved up at the world 2-stroke championship you can change classes on race day

1

The Shop

4/22/2024 4:16pm

Nothing new. It was happening in the 80s at the height of the contingency programs for the Golden State and Trans Cal series.  

4
crf250pilot
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4/22/2024 5:50pm Edited Date/Time 4/22/2024 5:53pm
need2ride wrote:
I see a lot of people that race Masters in socal vetmx series in the intermediate classes. It's pretty standard around here you drop down 2...

I see a lot of people that race Masters in socal vetmx series in the intermediate classes. It's pretty standard around here you drop down 2 classes for the big events. 

That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2...

That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2 classes down, so I felt pretty good with my 4th place finish and 3 holeshots out of 5 motos. 

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would...

Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would with say Swap Moto or others?

I'm sure there might've been. I hadn't raced in 10+ yrs, so wasn't aware of the new down class rules at the time. It just seemed pretty funny that grown men cherry picking like they were going to get a factory ride or something at 40 yrs old.

3
Ob917
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Cardiff, CA, USA
4/22/2024 5:55pm

C class guys in southern Cal are way faster than they are where you are from, and probably faster than your A class guys. It just is what it is. 

4
16
wwoberg
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Soddy Daisy, TN, USA
4/22/2024 6:01pm

It's been happening for a long time.  It's frustrating both as a former racer and your kids as they progress.

It's not long before you realize, this sport is not for the casual rider.  

1
1
SoCalMX70
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4/22/2024 6:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/22/2024 6:18pm
need2ride wrote:
I see a lot of people that race Masters in socal vetmx series in the intermediate classes. It's pretty standard around here you drop down 2...

I see a lot of people that race Masters in socal vetmx series in the intermediate classes. It's pretty standard around here you drop down 2 classes for the big events. 

That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2...

That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2 classes down, so I felt pretty good with my 4th place finish and 3 holeshots out of 5 motos. 

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would...

Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would with say Swap Moto or others?

For OTHG, new members are evaluated over 2 races for proper placement. They are given minimum points for each race regardless of finish. Once placed, there is an advancement points system to keep people moving up.

The Race Director can also bump anyone at any time if it's obvious a rider isn't where they belong.

We also keep track of non-members who show up frequently and bump them if necessary.

I don't know if anyone is more strict than OTHG (South Chapter in this case) on making sure racers are truly where they belong. Some people still try their hardest to game the system, but we don't put up with it.

Now, we do have the 2nd Annual OTHG Classic coming up, which is a once a year deal that's structured differently and wide open to all vet riders... There will certainly be some more sandbaggers, but it's a fun event and all members get full points just for attending.

Edit: To answer your actual question, there is no written rule for that. We simply suggest this information to new members. Someone who, for example, races Novice with Swap Moto/2X/AMA races, etc. is likely Intermediate or Expert speed in our club. If they don't take our advice and blow everyone's doors off, they'll get bumped anyway. To expand a bit more, our beginners are TRUE beginners, rolling everything on the track, Novice riders jump a quarter to half the jumps, and it goes from there. Intermediate is the first level where you see everyone hitting everything and getting around fairly quick. We don't have novices throwing down and scrubbing everything like you tend to see elsewhere.

14
brocster
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4/22/2024 6:45pm
That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2...

That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2 classes down, so I felt pretty good with my 4th place finish and 3 holeshots out of 5 motos. 

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would...

Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would with say Swap Moto or others?

SoCalMX70 wrote:
For OTHG, new members are evaluated over 2 races for proper placement. They are given minimum points for each race regardless of finish. Once placed, there...

For OTHG, new members are evaluated over 2 races for proper placement. They are given minimum points for each race regardless of finish. Once placed, there is an advancement points system to keep people moving up.

The Race Director can also bump anyone at any time if it's obvious a rider isn't where they belong.

We also keep track of non-members who show up frequently and bump them if necessary.

I don't know if anyone is more strict than OTHG (South Chapter in this case) on making sure racers are truly where they belong. Some people still try their hardest to game the system, but we don't put up with it.

Now, we do have the 2nd Annual OTHG Classic coming up, which is a once a year deal that's structured differently and wide open to all vet riders... There will certainly be some more sandbaggers, but it's a fun event and all members get full points just for attending.

Edit: To answer your actual question, there is no written rule for that. We simply suggest this information to new members. Someone who, for example, races Novice with Swap Moto/2X/AMA races, etc. is likely Intermediate or Expert speed in our club. If they don't take our advice and blow everyone's doors off, they'll get bumped anyway. To expand a bit more, our beginners are TRUE beginners, rolling everything on the track, Novice riders jump a quarter to half the jumps, and it goes from there. Intermediate is the first level where you see everyone hitting everything and getting around fairly quick. We don't have novices throwing down and scrubbing everything like you tend to see elsewhere.

Yeah was weird to me for a while once moving here. I’d be talking to some older guys, my age, that were saying they were “expert” when they clearly were not.

Back to sandbagging Novices. I come from the South and I can without a doubt say that there are more fast riders here in Ca. than down there, by the hundreds, and what’ll blow your mind is half of those don’t even race but if they did they’d surely race the novice class.   Novice here in Ca. Is no joke, but it is in the same breath. 

3
4/22/2024 6:55pm
That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2...

That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2 classes down, so I felt pretty good with my 4th place finish and 3 holeshots out of 5 motos. 

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would...

Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would with say Swap Moto or others?

SoCalMX70 wrote:
For OTHG, new members are evaluated over 2 races for proper placement. They are given minimum points for each race regardless of finish. Once placed, there...

For OTHG, new members are evaluated over 2 races for proper placement. They are given minimum points for each race regardless of finish. Once placed, there is an advancement points system to keep people moving up.

The Race Director can also bump anyone at any time if it's obvious a rider isn't where they belong.

We also keep track of non-members who show up frequently and bump them if necessary.

I don't know if anyone is more strict than OTHG (South Chapter in this case) on making sure racers are truly where they belong. Some people still try their hardest to game the system, but we don't put up with it.

Now, we do have the 2nd Annual OTHG Classic coming up, which is a once a year deal that's structured differently and wide open to all vet riders... There will certainly be some more sandbaggers, but it's a fun event and all members get full points just for attending.

Edit: To answer your actual question, there is no written rule for that. We simply suggest this information to new members. Someone who, for example, races Novice with Swap Moto/2X/AMA races, etc. is likely Intermediate or Expert speed in our club. If they don't take our advice and blow everyone's doors off, they'll get bumped anyway. To expand a bit more, our beginners are TRUE beginners, rolling everything on the track, Novice riders jump a quarter to half the jumps, and it goes from there. Intermediate is the first level where you see everyone hitting everything and getting around fairly quick. We don't have novices throwing down and scrubbing everything like you tend to see elsewhere.

It might have been someone I talked to that raced with OTHG that told me that. It’s been a few years since I had heard that last. I immediately went looking on OTHG website and didn’t see it, but figured either you or one of the other gang riders would clarify it for me!

2
4/22/2024 9:32pm

Lots of old guys crying. Maybe take it the other way and realize you battle hardened vets arent much faster than some young kids just entering the sport in the C class???

12
526
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4/23/2024 5:14am

This not only happens in SoCal look at the results in the Racer X Senior series, same guys winning B Class for 10yrs and 4-6 guys in A Class. 

cmotodad
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Yorba Linda, CA, USA
4/23/2024 5:34am

I've said it for years and will continue. Not so much in vet racing but some, no contingency from the factories. Once you get to the pros, you can earn them through your riding. Way back when, a pro race in So Cal had 20-30 pros each week. No reason to move up if you can make more money riding novice classes.

2
1
lumpy790
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York, SC, USA
4/23/2024 6:15am

After spending a few days in CA hitting the daily practice tour where everyone goes to one track on one day and another track the next I quickly understood why so many racers are so fast that come from CA.

And its not just CA.

If they have enough $$$ or parents to be able to ride with the Pro’s every day they get faster. Same thing with places with full time students like ClubMX, South of the Border, MPF and others in FL.

The sport has evolved.

sndlbox
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Pearblossom, CA, USA
4/23/2024 7:44am

Mammoth has been famous for this for decades 

ktmracer726
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Gagetown, MI, USA
4/23/2024 7:57am

No surprise. Local 85 rider that cleans up in the Jr class around here, multiple state titles went and raced the 85 C class at spring a ding. 

Savage925
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Oceanside, CA, USA
4/23/2024 12:42pm

If only there was an organization that we could pay $49 dollars to per year to help manage rider results and move riders up when needed.

11
BoxcarWilly
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4/23/2024 6:35pm
Savage925 wrote:

If only there was an organization that we could pay $49 dollars to per year to help manage rider results and move riders up when needed.

Ask the NEPG events how that went LOL

maxer
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Fantasy
4/23/2024 6:52pm

Primarily because Lorettas, it's similar here in Texas. Lot of parents with money to blow and know their kid doesnt stand a chance in the B class due to how gnarly it is. The AMA could potentially fix this by having seperate ' National ' rankings/divisions from ' Local ' divisions.

Hell, I would of stayed down in C a little longer if I could of done local races in B, and didnt have to feel like a douchebag racing the C class locally vs teenagers that actually belong in that class. There is just way too much disparity between your local C/B/A rider vs the C/B/A rider that trains every week at a compound and chases every big national.

Falcon
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4/24/2024 6:25am
Ob917 wrote:
C class guys in southern Cal are way faster than they are where you are from, and probably faster than your A class guys. It just...

C class guys in southern Cal are way faster than they are where you are from, and probably faster than your A class guys. It just is what it is. 

Yeah, but the OP is comparing the C class with the A class at the same race. Both classes are in California.

Sandbagging is just a way of life around here.

1
soggy
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4/24/2024 7:49am

You’re an absolute loser if you race a lower class so you have a better chance to win an amateur race of plumbers and carpenters. Doubly worse if your an adult. 

4
Crutcher
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4/24/2024 8:42am

For being a sport that requires huge nuts to do it at a decent speed, there sure are a lot of candy asses within it both at the track and on the internet. 

3
3
sandtrack315
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4/24/2024 9:26am

As soon as I was consistently near the front of the C class, I moved up to the B class. Not even really about not being a sand-bagger, just didn't like going into Talladega with a bunch of C class dudes... 

If you're fast enough to win the C class, you should not be proud to win the C class.

3
ProKawi24
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4/24/2024 9:42am

Always happened back when I was racing. Local races guys would be in interm/expert class and for the big races drop down 1-2 classes.

I noticed the same thing when I started racing R/C cars after my accident. Local races all the guys I ran against in pro stock would go down to sportsman stock at big races and funny thing is they'd still get their asses kicked because the top half of sportsman were running the same times as everyone in pro stock. 

seth505
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4/24/2024 9:58am
As soon as I was consistently near the front of the C class, I moved up to the B class. Not even really about not being...

As soon as I was consistently near the front of the C class, I moved up to the B class. Not even really about not being a sand-bagger, just didn't like going into Talladega with a bunch of C class dudes... 

If you're fast enough to win the C class, you should not be proud to win the C class.

Ya, the varying mentalities is crazy to me.  I remember when I first raced on an 80, I never even had a goal to win a C race. I was already envious of the kids with A and B plates and just wanted to get to B class to be around better riders asap.

3
SoCalMX70
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4/24/2024 10:49am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would...

Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would with say Swap Moto or others?

SoCalMX70 wrote:
For OTHG, new members are evaluated over 2 races for proper placement. They are given minimum points for each race regardless of finish. Once placed, there...

For OTHG, new members are evaluated over 2 races for proper placement. They are given minimum points for each race regardless of finish. Once placed, there is an advancement points system to keep people moving up.

The Race Director can also bump anyone at any time if it's obvious a rider isn't where they belong.

We also keep track of non-members who show up frequently and bump them if necessary.

I don't know if anyone is more strict than OTHG (South Chapter in this case) on making sure racers are truly where they belong. Some people still try their hardest to game the system, but we don't put up with it.

Now, we do have the 2nd Annual OTHG Classic coming up, which is a once a year deal that's structured differently and wide open to all vet riders... There will certainly be some more sandbaggers, but it's a fun event and all members get full points just for attending.

Edit: To answer your actual question, there is no written rule for that. We simply suggest this information to new members. Someone who, for example, races Novice with Swap Moto/2X/AMA races, etc. is likely Intermediate or Expert speed in our club. If they don't take our advice and blow everyone's doors off, they'll get bumped anyway. To expand a bit more, our beginners are TRUE beginners, rolling everything on the track, Novice riders jump a quarter to half the jumps, and it goes from there. Intermediate is the first level where you see everyone hitting everything and getting around fairly quick. We don't have novices throwing down and scrubbing everything like you tend to see elsewhere.

mattyhamz2 wrote:
It might have been someone I talked to that raced with OTHG that told me that. It’s been a few years since I had heard that...

It might have been someone I talked to that raced with OTHG that told me that. It’s been a few years since I had heard that last. I immediately went looking on OTHG website and didn’t see it, but figured either you or one of the other gang riders would clarify it for me!

You going to join us at Perris or GH? You're Intermediate, btw. 🤣

1
OW38B
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4/24/2024 10:52am
need2ride wrote:
I see a lot of people that race Masters in socal vetmx series in the intermediate classes. It's pretty standard around here you drop down 2...

I see a lot of people that race Masters in socal vetmx series in the intermediate classes. It's pretty standard around here you drop down 2 classes for the big events. 

That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2...

That's exactly what happened to me a few yrs back at GH. Raced the 40+ int OTMX race and top 3 were all masters racing 2 classes down, so I felt pretty good with my 4th place finish and 3 holeshots out of 5 motos. 

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would...

Wasn't there a rule or something like that at one point with OTMX or OTHG about riding a class higher with them than you normally would with say Swap Moto or others?

I don't ever remember it being a rule, but both tried to control "sandbagging" best they could.

1
OW38B
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Coto de Caza, CA, USA
4/24/2024 10:54am
Ob917 wrote:
C class guys in southern Cal are way faster than they are where you are from, and probably faster than your A class guys. It just...

C class guys in southern Cal are way faster than they are where you are from, and probably faster than your A class guys. It just is what it is. 

That for the most part is true.....

1
OW38B
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Coto de Caza, CA, USA
4/24/2024 10:58am
UpTiTe wrote:

Nothing new. It was happening in the 80s at the height of the contingency programs for the Golden State and Trans Cal series.  

I concur 100%.

With CMC you only had 3 classes.

1. Pro

2. Intermediate

3. Junior

I was not uncommon for some winning the lower class to move up and run mid or better in the next, for sure some overlap.

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