Super aggressive, ultra talented win at no cost racers.

BigRedMachine
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Grants Pass, OR, USA
Edited Date/Time 3/17/2024 1:05pm

There have been a few over the years, Bob Hannah, RC, JS7 and RV come to mind.  It seems like we can never completely get these freaks of nature to enter a series at the same time in their primes, they just dominate for a few years and leave us amazed with their speed and mental, physical toughness.  I'm wondering who's the next probably unheard of rider racing the amateurs that's going to step up and be a challenge to Jett for Championships, there has to be some American completely out of their mind dedicated to win at all costs or die like those guys seemed to be.  Would have loved to seen those 5 racing in the primes against each other, it would have been a bloodbath.  Of the current crop of 250F riders, I'm wondering if Deegan, McAdoo or Vialle might be the next ones to find their calling aboard a 450 or maybe Prado, but he's seems too nice and not one of those Beasts that seeks to destroy the competition. 

 

 

Poll

Who in their absolute prime would have won the AMA 450 SX/MX and Super Motocross Championship

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kbsci
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3/17/2024 1:01pm

The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James Stewart five times in a row on his walk-off motocross tour. Between those years (2001 SX through - 2007 MX he won 5 Supercross championships and 5 Motocross championships, two with perfect seasons. He was injured for the SX and MX championship he didn’t win during that period. He was a vicious competitor and would have stepped up to beat anyone else from any time period.

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ML512
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Fantasy
3/17/2024 1:05pm
kbsci wrote:
The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James...

The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James Stewart five times in a row on his walk-off motocross tour. Between those years (2001 SX through - 2007 MX he won 5 Supercross championships and 5 Motocross championships, two with perfect seasons. He was injured for the SX and MX championship he didn’t win during that period. He was a vicious competitor and would have stepped up to beat anyone else from any time period.

Ricky won six outdoor championships between the years of 2001 and 2007. He never missed an outdoor championship due to injury. Technically speaking, the only outdoor title he lost was the one he didn't fully compete in because he was on his retirement tour, that being the 2007 outdoor championship where he only raced six of the twelve rounds. He did win all six rounds overall that he lined up for in 2007 though.

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plowboy
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Norwich, KS, USA
3/17/2024 1:12pm
ML512 wrote:
Ricky won six outdoor championships between the years of 2001 and 2007. He never missed an outdoor championship due to injury. Technically speaking, the only outdoor...

Ricky won six outdoor championships between the years of 2001 and 2007. He never missed an outdoor championship due to injury. Technically speaking, the only outdoor title he lost was the one he didn't fully compete in because he was on his retirement tour, that being the 2007 outdoor championship where he only raced six of the twelve rounds. He did win all six rounds overall that he lined up for in 2007 though.

I saw a lot of it standing at the fence.  I don't know if there has ever been anyone so driven to win.  He just refused to lose.  

6
BigRedMachine
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3/17/2024 1:15pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2024 1:17pm
kbsci wrote:
The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James...

The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James Stewart five times in a row on his walk-off motocross tour. Between those years (2001 SX through - 2007 MX he won 5 Supercross championships and 5 Motocross championships, two with perfect seasons. He was injured for the SX and MX championship he didn’t win during that period. He was a vicious competitor and would have stepped up to beat anyone else from any time period.

ML512 wrote:
Ricky won six outdoor championships between the years of 2001 and 2007. He never missed an outdoor championship due to injury. Technically speaking, the only outdoor...

Ricky won six outdoor championships between the years of 2001 and 2007. He never missed an outdoor championship due to injury. Technically speaking, the only outdoor title he lost was the one he didn't fully compete in because he was on his retirement tour, that being the 2007 outdoor championship where he only raced six of the twelve rounds. He did win all six rounds overall that he lined up for in 2007 though.

I agree, nobody was mentally more tough and tenacious than RC, but technically I think James Stewart and Jett Lawrence were more skilled riders, it's kind of like the unstoppable force vs the unmovable object where a whole lot of factors come into play of who would come out the Champion and get all the titles.  Tenacity can only get you so far if you're lacking in technical skill and technical skill won't get the job done unless you're a Tenacious Animal that lives, breathes and sleeps racing dirtbikes 24/7 and you have to be smart.  Jett comes across as one of the best natural riders of alltime, but as far as I can see, he's not one of those tenacious types, but if someone starts beating him consistently, we might see that Monster come out of him when he gets older. 

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kbsci
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3/17/2024 1:18pm
I agree, nobody was mentally more tough and tenacious than RC, but technically I think James Stewart and Jett Lawrence were more skilled riders, it's kind...

I agree, nobody was mentally more tough and tenacious than RC, but technically I think James Stewart and Jett Lawrence were more skilled riders, it's kind of like the unstoppable force vs the unmovable object where a whole lot of factors come into play of who would come out the Champion and get all the titles.  Tenacity can only get you so far if you're lacking in technical skill and technical skill won't get the job done unless you're a Tenacious Animal that lives, breathes and sleeps racing dirtbikes 24/7 and you have to be smart.  Jett comes across as one of the best natural riders of alltime, but as far as I can see, he's not one of those tenacious types, but if someone starts beating him consistently, we might see that Monster come out of him when he gets older. 

But you asked who would win and that’s your answer. 

James Stewart seems to think Jett’s got that drive, but maybe doesn’t show it quite so much. 

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BigRedMachine
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3/17/2024 1:20pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2024 1:22pm

Laughing I wonder if Vince Friese is a Vitalmx member and voted for himself in the poll, cause he got one

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motomike137
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3/17/2024 1:33pm
I agree, nobody was mentally more tough and tenacious than RC, but technically I think James Stewart and Jett Lawrence were more skilled riders, it's kind...

I agree, nobody was mentally more tough and tenacious than RC, but technically I think James Stewart and Jett Lawrence were more skilled riders, it's kind of like the unstoppable force vs the unmovable object where a whole lot of factors come into play of who would come out the Champion and get all the titles.  Tenacity can only get you so far if you're lacking in technical skill and technical skill won't get the job done unless you're a Tenacious Animal that lives, breathes and sleeps racing dirtbikes 24/7 and you have to be smart.  Jett comes across as one of the best natural riders of alltime, but as far as I can see, he's not one of those tenacious types, but if someone starts beating him consistently, we might see that Monster come out of him when he gets older. 

kbsci wrote:
But you asked who would win and that’s your answer.  James Stewart seems to think Jett’s got that drive, but maybe doesn’t show it quite so...

But you asked who would win and that’s your answer. 

James Stewart seems to think Jett’s got that drive, but maybe doesn’t show it quite so much. 

Jett has it, his riding style is just a lot more graceful than RC so it doesn't look like he is trying as hard. Reminds me of JMB somewhat.

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-MAVERICK-
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3/17/2024 6:26pm

We have yet to see Jett in his prime, so RC. 

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3/17/2024 6:28pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:

We have yet to see Jett in his prime, so RC. 

That’s a scary thought 

5
chad_111
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3/17/2024 6:46pm

Win at all costs

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Herr Lich
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3/17/2024 6:54pm
kbsci wrote:
The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James...

The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James Stewart five times in a row on his walk-off motocross tour. Between those years (2001 SX through - 2007 MX he won 5 Supercross championships and 5 Motocross championships, two with perfect seasons. He was injured for the SX and MX championship he didn’t win during that period. He was a vicious competitor and would have stepped up to beat anyone else from any time period.

ML512 wrote:
Ricky won six outdoor championships between the years of 2001 and 2007. He never missed an outdoor championship due to injury. Technically speaking, the only outdoor...

Ricky won six outdoor championships between the years of 2001 and 2007. He never missed an outdoor championship due to injury. Technically speaking, the only outdoor title he lost was the one he didn't fully compete in because he was on his retirement tour, that being the 2007 outdoor championship where he only raced six of the twelve rounds. He did win all six rounds overall that he lined up for in 2007 though.

I agree, nobody was mentally more tough and tenacious than RC, but technically I think James Stewart and Jett Lawrence were more skilled riders, it's kind...

I agree, nobody was mentally more tough and tenacious than RC, but technically I think James Stewart and Jett Lawrence were more skilled riders, it's kind of like the unstoppable force vs the unmovable object where a whole lot of factors come into play of who would come out the Champion and get all the titles.  Tenacity can only get you so far if you're lacking in technical skill and technical skill won't get the job done unless you're a Tenacious Animal that lives, breathes and sleeps racing dirtbikes 24/7 and you have to be smart.  Jett comes across as one of the best natural riders of alltime, but as far as I can see, he's not one of those tenacious types, but if someone starts beating him consistently, we might see that Monster come out of him when he gets older. 

I think you're basing your opinion on how Jett appears to the public - carefree, relaxed etc.

According to those who know him he is a ruthless competitor that wants to win.  James Stewart said the same thing about him after meeting him. 

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MXMattii
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3/17/2024 7:14pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:

We have yet to see Jett in his prime, so RC. 

Oldstyle wrote:

That’s a scary thought 

But it is indeed true. Hopefully he gets some real competition in the future years, so he needs to step up his game. Because I'm sure and most of us are probably well aware that he still can make a few steps. If he doesn't get bored he will be the top dog at the lonely height such as JM Bayle, McGrath, Carmichael... And who knows he can still return to the MXGP scene and clinch a MXGP world championship to round it all off.

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3/17/2024 7:21pm

RC, RV, JS all cut from the same cloth, Deegan seems to be aswell, all psychos who want it bad.
 

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Chris_Buehler
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3/17/2024 7:23pm

We're years off of Jett's prime. Impossible to answer

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BigRedMachine
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3/17/2024 8:09pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2024 8:10pm

I read somewhere that Jett and Hunter Lawrence did some testing on the new 2025 Honda CRF450R, that's just what the competition I'm sure wants to hear of a new Honda tailored and designed to Jett's riding style for next years season. 

2
wwdiii
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3/17/2024 9:07pm

I didn’t read down far enough………I missed Vince or would have voted.  

3/17/2024 9:36pm
 I wonder if Vince Friese is a Vitalmx member and voted for himself in the poll, cause he got one

Laughing I wonder if Vince Friese is a Vitalmx member and voted for himself in the poll, cause he got one

He must have multiple accounts, he has multiple votes.

decano51
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3/17/2024 11:38pm
kbsci wrote:
The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James...

The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James Stewart five times in a row on his walk-off motocross tour. Between those years (2001 SX through - 2007 MX he won 5 Supercross championships and 5 Motocross championships, two with perfect seasons. He was injured for the SX and MX championship he didn’t win during that period. He was a vicious competitor and would have stepped up to beat anyone else from any time period.

something that's not spoken of.. it also took how many years for Ricky to find his feet in supercross? outdoors he was amazing.. But its not liked he stepped into the premier class and dominated in supercross like others had.

But your also comparing established 450 riders in their prime against a 20 year old rookie.. 

Lets have this discussion in 5 years time when Jett is in his prime.. 

 

regardless.. over a championship series.. RV2 is wining it.

Stew was fast.. But crashing wouldn't be an option if all these greats lined up for a championship. 

 

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1
3/18/2024 12:30am
kbsci wrote:
The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James...

The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James Stewart five times in a row on his walk-off motocross tour. Between those years (2001 SX through - 2007 MX he won 5 Supercross championships and 5 Motocross championships, two with perfect seasons. He was injured for the SX and MX championship he didn’t win during that period. He was a vicious competitor and would have stepped up to beat anyone else from any time period.

decano51 wrote:
something that's not spoken of.. it also took how many years for Ricky to find his feet in supercross? outdoors he was amazing.. But its not...

something that's not spoken of.. it also took how many years for Ricky to find his feet in supercross? outdoors he was amazing.. But its not liked he stepped into the premier class and dominated in supercross like others had.

But your also comparing established 450 riders in their prime against a 20 year old rookie.. 

Lets have this discussion in 5 years time when Jett is in his prime.. 

 

regardless.. over a championship series.. RV2 is wining it.

Stew was fast.. But crashing wouldn't be an option if all these greats lined up for a championship. 

 

10 races in and Jett is out performing RV2 in his rookie 450 season...

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/moto-related/jett-win-tracker

image-20240318182818-1

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kbsci
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3/18/2024 4:43am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2024 4:44am
decano51 wrote:
something that's not spoken of.. it also took how many years for Ricky to find his feet in supercross? outdoors he was amazing.. But its not...

something that's not spoken of.. it also took how many years for Ricky to find his feet in supercross? outdoors he was amazing.. But its not liked he stepped into the premier class and dominated in supercross like others had.

But your also comparing established 450 riders in their prime against a 20 year old rookie.. 

Lets have this discussion in 5 years time when Jett is in his prime.. 

 

regardless.. over a championship series.. RV2 is wining it.

Stew was fast.. But crashing wouldn't be an option if all these greats lined up for a championship. 

 

Prime RC vs. Prime RV is the most interesting comparison to me. I think they’re the most analogous and would have been an unstoppable force vs. an immovable object.

I definitely think of RC as an outdoor guy and not a Supercross guy, and you’re right that he had to find his feet there. But then he won 5 championships against Jeremy McGrath, James Stewart and Chad Reed 😳

I LOVED watching James Stewart ride and his win record speaks for itself, but Ricky and Ryan were bookends of his career and both could handle him. He lined up for all four of RV’s Supercross championship seasons, and, despite his reputation, clearly wasn’t the man to beat.

Jett is amazing. Full stop. He might re-write the record books. He’s going to push legends into retirement and there’s no one coming up who’s going to touch him. I think he is more like James Stewart than Ricky Carmichael, minus the big whips, the dancing and the crashes.

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toroP
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3/18/2024 5:59am

2011 outdoors, Reed(past his prime) has a double digit points lead on RV and RD, before the “pult”. 

Now think about Reed(prime) vs RC outdoors.

An interesting measure of RC vs RV

3
sandtrack315
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3/18/2024 7:06am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2024 7:06am

Would love to see James and Ricky race the hybrid tracks. Peak James was better in SX, Ricky always had his number outdoors. I don’t think we ever got peak James versus Ricky outdoors though. By the time James was on a good 450, Ricky was gone. 

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lumpy790
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3/18/2024 8:01am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2024 8:05am
kbsci wrote:
The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James...

The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James Stewart five times in a row on his walk-off motocross tour. Between those years (2001 SX through - 2007 MX he won 5 Supercross championships and 5 Motocross championships, two with perfect seasons. He was injured for the SX and MX championship he didn’t win during that period. He was a vicious competitor and would have stepped up to beat anyone else from any time period.

decano51 wrote:
something that's not spoken of.. it also took how many years for Ricky to find his feet in supercross? outdoors he was amazing.. But its not...

something that's not spoken of.. it also took how many years for Ricky to find his feet in supercross? outdoors he was amazing.. But its not liked he stepped into the premier class and dominated in supercross like others had.

But your also comparing established 450 riders in their prime against a 20 year old rookie.. 

Lets have this discussion in 5 years time when Jett is in his prime.. 

 

regardless.. over a championship series.. RV2 is wining it.

Stew was fast.. But crashing wouldn't be an option if all these greats lined up for a championship. 

 

10 races in and Jett is out performing RV2 in his rookie 450 season... https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/moto-related/jett-win-tracker

10 races in and Jett is out performing RV2 in his rookie 450 season...

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/moto-related/jett-win-tracker

image-20240318182818-1

With winning all 3 races plus the overall does this give him 4 wins for this weekend alone bumping him up to 6?

3
kpiper
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3/18/2024 8:10am

Hannah and RC4. RV2 is a close third. Hannah vs RC4 would be the ultimate. Jett could be there one day but he is not even close yet.

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kpiper
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3/18/2024 8:12am
kbsci wrote:
The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James...

The answer to this question is always Ricky Carmichael. At 22 he dethroned the 30-year-old King of Supercross. At 27 he beat 22 year old James Stewart five times in a row on his walk-off motocross tour. Between those years (2001 SX through - 2007 MX he won 5 Supercross championships and 5 Motocross championships, two with perfect seasons. He was injured for the SX and MX championship he didn’t win during that period. He was a vicious competitor and would have stepped up to beat anyone else from any time period.

ML512 wrote:
Ricky won six outdoor championships between the years of 2001 and 2007. He never missed an outdoor championship due to injury. Technically speaking, the only outdoor...

Ricky won six outdoor championships between the years of 2001 and 2007. He never missed an outdoor championship due to injury. Technically speaking, the only outdoor title he lost was the one he didn't fully compete in because he was on his retirement tour, that being the 2007 outdoor championship where he only raced six of the twelve rounds. He did win all six rounds overall that he lined up for in 2007 though.

Add in the smaller class, didn't RC win 10 outdoors in a row? Every series he entered? He would have won his last if he didn't quit halfway (beat JS7 every overall). Clearly, he is the greatest ever. No one even close.

1
-MAVERICK-
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3/18/2024 8:35am
lumpy790 wrote:

With winning all 3 races plus the overall does this give him 4 wins for this weekend alone bumping him up to 6?

No, it counts as one overall win. 

2
kpiper
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3/18/2024 8:46am

Saying Jett is the greatest ever is like saying Bradshaw was the greatest ever after he won 10 SX races but before he lost the title that year. Jett has to prove himself over 'years' not just a year.

2
1
motomike137
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3/18/2024 8:48am
decano51 wrote:
something that's not spoken of.. it also took how many years for Ricky to find his feet in supercross? outdoors he was amazing.. But its not...

something that's not spoken of.. it also took how many years for Ricky to find his feet in supercross? outdoors he was amazing.. But its not liked he stepped into the premier class and dominated in supercross like others had.

But your also comparing established 450 riders in their prime against a 20 year old rookie.. 

Lets have this discussion in 5 years time when Jett is in his prime.. 

 

regardless.. over a championship series.. RV2 is wining it.

Stew was fast.. But crashing wouldn't be an option if all these greats lined up for a championship. 

 

It's early days but Jett appears to be a MC,RC,JMB mashup at this point and that is f-ckin scary!

4
motomike137
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3/18/2024 8:50am
kpiper wrote:
Saying Jett is the greatest ever is like saying Bradshaw was the greatest ever after he won 10 SX races but before he lost the title...

Saying Jett is the greatest ever is like saying Bradshaw was the greatest ever after he won 10 SX races but before he lost the title that year. Jett has to prove himself over 'years' not just a year.

True but... Damon never did win a premier class title and Jett already has two in the bank in less than a year. The first two he has competed in on top of that.

davis224
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3/18/2024 10:32am
toroP wrote:
2011 outdoors, Reed(past his prime) has a double digit points lead on RV and RD, before the “pult”.  Now think about Reed(prime) vs RC outdoors. An...

2011 outdoors, Reed(past his prime) has a double digit points lead on RV and RD, before the “pult”. 

Now think about Reed(prime) vs RC outdoors.

An interesting measure of RC vs RV

A lot of people would consider 2011/early 2012 Reed's prime.

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