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Watch and learn at the 5:10 mark. They pretty much cover all the complaints from the vitards about wanting to slow tracks down, getting rid of dangerous sections, getting rid of the concrete, etc:
Forkners crash reminds me a lot of RVs crash at monster cup
While I think they could make the tracks themselves less dangerous, (lets face it, too many people are getting hurt)....I laughed at people calling for elimination or covering the concrete and was called "dumbass". Here you have two of the most respected moto people in history who know a thing or two that are apparently also a couple of "dumbasses"
Dirt, concrete, rubber mats....ain't gonna matter coming down that hard.
The safe-space generation is a riot.
So if a rider lands flat on his back on concrete, it’ll be the same forces as if the rider landed on a softer matting.
Did you take science at school?
Yeah..... we can argue about how much difference it would make, but it's absurd to argue that concrete vs not concrete doesn't matter at all.
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So we have 9 whoops max and no dragon backs but concrete next to a rhythm section where people were crashing all night. Why not just cover the area with sand. We have nets so riders dont launch into the stands too. I dont get it.
Serious question. After Earnhardts death, do you believe nascar putting in the safer walls at tracks and requiring drivers to wear more protective gear was a result of people being soft? I’m all for being tough and God knows it’s part of the reason I love to watch and ride moto, but it’s seems you equate safety with being a pussy? If there’s measures that can be implemented to prevent catastrophic injuries without sacrificing the integrity of the sport itself I’m not sure that automatically qualifies as the sissification of the sport?
Vital member..
"it's safe enough go watch ping-pong if you're scared!"
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I'm all for trying to make this sport safer, but to offer a different perspective, it looks like there was no sudden stop when he hit the concrete. He definitely came down hard, but almost bounced and skidded across the stadium floor. What if there had been 12" of soft dirt there? Would it have absorbed some impact? Sure, but would it have brought him to a sudden stop too? Would that have caused more or more serious injuries? No one can say, all we can do is speculate. What I do know is Austin is broken but could it have been worse. I'm just super glad he's gonna be ok and this crash didn't have a way worse outcome.
This isn't speculation. It's physics. There is no conceivable way he is more injured landing in dirt in that crash.
You’re the biggest complainer in this place.
Tracks don’t need to be safer, bikes need slowed down. Premier class needs to be 250cc 2 or 4 stroke, 125 or 150cc 2 or 4 stroke for lites. When the last place LCQ guy can seat bounce the triple from the inside line, we have a power issue.
I think had his contact not come out we wouldn’t be having this chat. I wish he would have backed it down instead of trying to win in that moment. I was hoping he’d win the title this year.
Or Webb's from a couple years back.
Kind of reminds me of the MMA studies that proved that having a simple beard absorbs 37% more impact than a fighter with no facial hair. Something has to be better than nothing on that concrete
I have thought about the NASCAR comparison, I think the biggest difference there, in NASCAR, you can hit one of two things on the track - another car, or a wall. They only have two areas they have to focus on for safety, it makes it a lot easier to focus and learn (which I think they have done a tremendous job BTW).
I still don't think there is a perfect solution for the floors no matter what ideas we throw at it. For every idea, there is a reason it won't work. Foam pit, obviously won't work. Foam padding, you run the risk of it being a hurdle for trackside needs, and without it being anchored at some capacity, it becomes an obstacle itself. And as some have mentioned, if you have a high-speed tumble, less resistance is a good thing. I put 80% of that responsibility back on the riders though, this is a dangerous sport, people get hurt constantly, and there IS optional riding gear to offer more protection for these 1 in 1000 crashes, the riders choose not to wear it though, so the gamble really is on their part. For example, I wear a Leatt 3.5 chest/back protector, and while I am not Jett Lawrence, I can barely tell it is there when on the track, and I have a level of certainty, that Forkner's back would not have broke the way it did had he been wearing one. I just think in a sport this dangerous, you can't prevent everything and there will always be risks - we can't pad ourselves out of it like you can in other sports, there is way more variables.
AMA has done a good job improving and evolving safety over the years, a lot of lessons learned, kind of like NASCAR. Even the variations of hay bales/ safety blocks (and covers) have evolved quite a bit. The safety nets in high banked 90 degree corners, even the dirt itself has "evolved" for lack of better term. I am not disagreeing, safety is paramount, but we keep coming back to the very few spots of concrete and these rare crashes, and I do not know if we will ever get a viable solution for that one scenario.
Pit Row
They also concrete the grass portion near the Superspeedways so when a car goes sliding across they continue to slide instead of digging the tire in the dirt and flipping. The Hans device was another lifesaver. NASCAR is amazingly safe considering the speeds.
If anything...I'd agree with a soft sand apron around the track.
I'm glad someone gets it. Forkner basically came away unscathed considering the severity of that crash. Anything else would been worse by causing more damage. He was able to skid across the concrete and keep inertia moving forward. Sand or thin mats would have been friction and caused a change in speed. That force (change in speed/direction) is what causes the damage. Same reason why motoGP riders can skid across the asphalt at 100mph+ and come away unscathed. If they hit the gravel the friction causes them to tumble and that's when they tear shit up. The only way to avoid concrete in Supercross would be to install seamless airbags surrounding the track which is obviously not feasible. You would still need concrete lanes surrounding those airbags and there's no room for that. Those lanes are required for medical team, dirt works equipment, media, fire, etc.
We see the same or worse injuries on the track when riders hit the dirt almost every race. How many crashes have we seen on the concrete and how severe were the injuries?? Had Austin hit the face of a jump instead of concrete he would likely be paralyzed or dead.
He just wants to talk tough to make himself feel better.
It's a constant "everyone is soft these days compared to my generation" when it comes to him.
Meanwhile....he's too old and scared to even ride a modern dirt bike and thinks the sport was tougher back when they had 4" of suspension and 25hp.
We don’t need to outline the track with pads. Just make subtle changes to the entrance of sections so they aren’t as fast. This will curb a lot of the major injuries. They should have 3-5 nets minimum to cover the berms, more dirt to build things properly and slow the track down. Way way too many laps on these fast tracks.
8.04 really sums it up. reminds me of ripping my head open on the rim in 9th grade. I didn’t want to get clobbered hard flying in , to hyper smash a windmill tomahawk dunk. So I clobbered myself onto the rim.
I don't believe you guys are thinking this through. Every single track has technical sections that can cause injury. Every single track has concrete next to the outer lanes. It's just that riders don't fly off the track every week. What is everyone's suggestion for Daytona and Atlanta? Do we need Magoofan to make a simulation of the Daytona track surrounded by airbags and wrestling mats? Talk about high speed next to the asphalt...
Had Austin crashed in that same section, landed in the dirt, and broke his collar bone it would be the norm and we wouldn't even be talking about this as it's the norm. But instead, he's one of the handful of riders who've flown off the track and landed on their back on the concrete in the last 5 years all of a sudden we need to put pads and nets down?? Give me a break, those riders are just fine.
Like RC said, "When does it stop?" We already lost the whoops and dragon's back.
Did everyone see the rider get punted into the opposing lane last week and go the wrong direction on the track for a bit? If he had crashed head-on with another rider and gotten hurt, it sounds like everyone would be talking about putting nets/fences up between the lanes to prevent it?
It's a vey dangerous sport. Shit is going to happen. They've done a good job at making it as safe as possible, and not killing the race viewing experience.
Yup after I thought about it I'll take back the sand apron option. Sand would have a sudden stop or grab more on impact. Either way the rider is screwed if he's flying thru the air like that. Sliding when landing probably saved him from a broken neck. I also agree that entrance jump is what starts the "excessive" speed. The double-step tabletop has been used at nearly every race to start the first rhythm section. Round 1,2,3,5,6,7 have all used that double-step tabletop within the first 3 jumps of the first turn. I think its time to change it up Dirt Wurx...
Edit: They're also going to use it at Rounds 13,15,16.
I have thought it through, I am not saying that riders will not crash etc. I am not one do the pad everything people. I want the whoops longer than 9 pads(dumbest idea ever) I even like dragon backs. Hell I grew up back with MC, Lusk, KDub, Button, etc. The point is that the rhythms are faster now because of the typical 3 and 5 footers and the transitions. Couple this with faster more capable bikes and better technique and you have the current recipe. So make subtle changes so that when they enter said rhythm it isn’t 3rd gear open on a 250f. Slow the rhythms down and you wont have as many major injuries. I know first hand how dangerous our sport is, and I myself am an old school hard nosed guy. But even I see that the rhythms are dumb. They made the wrong changes in the name of safety.
We’re fine with big whoops and dragons backs. People will get hurt in supercross. I get it, but that particular jump had kicked people all day. Go flatten the knuckle on the table just a little. We’re lucky Austin was the only one hurt.
I hear you about the technical rhythm sections, but that's a double edged sword. Everyone wants to see the cream rise to the top, and we want to separate the men from the boys. The difficult sections on the track is where this separation happens. If you remove them and make tracks easier with no option for variety, then we are back to the "startercross, no passing, easy one lined track with no separation, and everyone running the same pace".
So it's a tough call to make to start dumbing down the tracks. As RC and RV said, the riders should know when to back it down in those sections.
Again, keep rhythms technical and let the best rise. But don’t make the entry speed so fast. One simple change, not dumb ones eliminating berms, whoops, and dragon backs. I’ll keep saying the same thing, slow down the rhythms and keep them technical. The speed when riders are thrown off isn’t as fast and have a slower impact which is easy to understand. Things will always happen in our sport and everyone understands that concept. So what do we do about it? Keep it hard and keep it the best sport on earth but make changes that make sense. Slow down the rhythms and keep them technical.
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