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2023 ktm engine with a 2023 Honda frame. Why on earth would anyone do this transplant?
Basically take a motor from a company who saved the 2 stroke and completely modernized it and stick in into a frame from the company that killed 2 strokes and then call it a CR and celebrate Honda for doing so. Fuckin morons.
the R&D needs to push forward. this isn't a good example but rethinking frame design, how the bike pivots front and back, and really stretch their imagination. if we need the production rule abolished then so be it. we're seriously stuck in a refinement rut. we should be be decades beyond where we're at now.
Those forks look amazing
The swingarm would be a backward step!
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I believe it was around 2017 I saw Redline make its debut . At first, I thought it was a CRF chassis with a CR 250 engine punched out to a 295. As soon as I saw it was a KTM 300 motor, I told myself, nope.
It would make more sense to just go buy a KTM 300.
Exactly. Makes no sense other than to show your skills at fabrication. Its a great looking bike, but thats it.
I especially love the obsession with putting things in these Honda frames that are notorious for being the worst chassis on the track. So just, why? Because it’s red? And Hondas were dominant in the 80s and 90s so somehow they’re still the best?
REINVENT the chassis. Completely.
Its beyond ridiculous, we have more choices of different bikes than ever before, and it's even larger choice with direct aftermarket big bore kits and engines....
But some people are never content and what to deal with manufacturers that have abandoned them years ago.
Exactly, you can't put a sx125 in a chassis any better than the one it comes in.
I wish Yamaha would build a 350 four stroke….and a counter balanced, e start, 300 two stroke…(if they’d put an e start, and a counter balance on their 250, I might just buy that bike)….but since they aren’t/wont, I’m afraid my money for my next bike purchase will be going to the KTM companies.
Be careful man for posting facts on here.
We all want the simplicity of two strokes back. The technology’s gotten outta hand.
Also, a completely reworked Suzuki 450 and 250
Ha harsh but true! However in the OP’s defence, he was only posing an off season hypothetical scenario.
Some if y’all are getting mad for no reason. Look, the thread is basically “If you had ‘wants’, what would they be?” You’re right, there are a whole lot of varieties to choose from. But it’s still okay to talk about what we’d like to see. Jeez
not complaining about the choices we have but an updated Suzuki in terms of weight/power with electric start and kyb suspension would absolutely find its way into my garage.
Well, Fantic ( FanYam! ) have something like what you wish for. Though, the '350' is a 310 ( if that?) and info on that is a bit hit and miss.
I think we here in OZ can get them, but the USA? They may be verboten, there.
Well guess what. Honda is not making them. Another brand is. So maybe don’t be so scared of a colour and support the brand that is making the bike that you actually want.
Pit Row
That's No reinvention of the Motorcycle chassis.
It's a Spine / Backbone with Hangers. At it's basic level, a similar concept to the old non closed cradle XR70s etc and onwards.
A (very) good solution for Stark Vargs Battery and Motor set up, combined with the aluminium sections. They obviously had some further development with the addition of the 2 extra mounts on the lowest portion of the forward, deep hangers. Introducing a 'non pivoting / bit of Triangulation' to that interface, which Did Not exist on earlier prototypes at that point.
It's a Good set up, for their Battery and Motor 'solutions', and with quite minimal parts and weldments to it. I like it, and I'm a bit of a critical arsehole when it comes to chassis design and builds. It's been part of my work life for over 50 years now.
"Reinvention", would be something like the various 'funny front ends ' ( and rear ends- there's been a Lot of both, as well as so, so many materials and structure types) to join our 2 wheels together.
But, not many of them have proved worthwhile, even in Road Race / Road Bike applications. I'm no Luddite, and have ridden / have mates with a variety of Bimota Tesi's, and one with a GTS1000 ( that still won't sell it to me - but, he's willed it to me, as I have done for him with some of my 'makings' and bikes).
Heck, I'm pretty sure if I ever get another TT2 / TT1 built up for myself, to ride ( if my new Knees coming this year will bend far enough ) I'll make and put on a Girder front end. But, with the price you can get for one - complete TT2s and TT1s - it will probably have either the 38mm or 41.7mm M1 'Zoke front ends I have - "Ducatisti", crave such things......
Our fellow Aussie here, I think going by Suspensionsmith, has his Telescopic / Girder combination front ends for both MCs and MTBs, that I find fascinating - I have to get down to Canberra (?) sometime, to check out his cleverness.
^ that motor/battery as a stressed member approach is definitely interesting and it sounds like it works fine on the Stark from those who have ridden it doesn't it. And the wild suspension setups are always impressive, as is the thought process behind them, even back to the 80's Hondas.
Modern ICE chassis seem so good right now (as the whole package of frame, suspension, swingarm, linkage) that I don't get why in they specific area someone would be so keen to throw it all away and how we 'should be decades ahead' 😂 It's good people push the envelope and think outside the box though, of course.
They had hover boards in Back to the Future, maybe the manufacturers could throw some fruitless R&D money at that? Or maybe just some Tron lights? Phil Nicoletti kinda had it going on briefly last season?
I just bought a new Austrian two stroke for less than 10K, a 2023 TE250
Something between a CRF250F and 250RX. Slightly smaller, lighter chassis and smoother power w/o sacrificing suspension performance and handling. I don’t need a bike capable of winning a GNCC or SX, but I’d love a bike that could keep up in the tight stuff and not fade late in the day.
You can't know what you're missing if you've never experienced it. Some of us think our "modern" bikes have evolved at a proper pace, but in truth, we're still using the same basic chassis/suspension systems first unveiled almost half a century ago now. Compare that to current Formula 1 chassis/suspension versus what they had back then, and it's easy to see what's happened to us. We've gone nowhere fast. Stark is changing that now, and predictably, that poor bike has made everyone everywhere light their hair on fire. Please God no, not something totally NEW!!!! I can't take it!!!
The evolution of our sport has been consistently stifled by the AMA, an organization that has been very carefully corrupted by the profit-motives of the OEMs. Heck, I'd love to see a brand new (very quiet) 125 twin that has tremendous torque and weighs 190 pounds - and we should have that option by now - but no, we've learned to be happy to throw money at bikes with their triple clamp offsets changed by 5mm. The guy that started this thread is so loyal to Honda he'd ride red dog poop. If you were an OEM, why would you even try to change that?
We are brand loyal to a fault, and as such, we get the bikes we deserve.
That's a smart take, thanks for the discussion 👍 It is tough for me to imagine how good we 'could' have had it, given that we don't, but I know some (like yourself) have more vision on that front.
For me, it's a tricky balance because to some of us better doesn't mean more stuff, more functions, more features... To some I guess it does.
I think we can, mostly, agree a very lightweight battery and starter is a worthwhile addition for most riders. I think the same can be said for basic EFI with minimal sensors with an Alpha-N tune, albeit the two stroke side of that seems to have a little room for improvement.
Going much beyond where we are right now, as far as complexity and additions, will detract from that balance of simplicity and performance that made Motocross bikes such awesome and uncompromising race bikes.
I don't disagree as far as chassis / geometry / material advancements go though.
I've probably take this way off topic, but kinda still in.the ballpark.
Reading the comments in this thread, you can tell who got coal in their stockings and no nookie on new years, what a bunch of loudmouth negative Nancys
I hope every time you say "I wish that... " someone is there to come along and shit all over your ideas and dreams.
Don't start crying on us now
Tell us that you sleep in KTM pajamas and bed sheets without telling us you sleep in KTM pajamas and bedsheets.
Can't find my proper answer: no, I won't buy this, and there's even a lesser chance I'd ever buy a Stark.
I started this thread, because I thought it would be fun to see what members dream the manufacturers would come out with and make them run to the dealership to get one, Yes! I like Honda's, but I also own TWO! KTM's and an 1987 Honda CR500, but also Suzuki's in the distant past. I know some members are a bit Testy and Butthurt that Honda HRC won every AMA title that was up to grabs in 2023, but the purpose of this thread wasn't to bash other brands and say Honda's are the best, it was to see if the Perfect! bike was built, what would it be and you'd immediately purchase one, my perfect bike would be a lightweight electric start 2-stroke Honda CR300R, what the hell is wrong with that wish, if you want a 200hp Stark Varg that weighs 180 lbs or a factory built Kawasaki KX125SR, Awesome I salute you, but instead people Piss and Moan about it. People have complained about 4-strokes being heavy boring bikes, but I love um, I also grew up in the time where we revved the piss out of 2-strokes and they required more effort to make run fast, but they were exciting as hell and I miss that. Anyways! Piss and Moan to your hearts content, I'll keep coming up with Dumb idea's for posts and polls for some of you to complain about. Funny thing is, some of the ones who complain the most, never have any idea's for new threads on this site, but instead like an ankle biting Chihuahua they sit and wait on the sidelines for a new thread they can Yap! about. Ride! Red Dog poop, Shame on you for that comment.
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