Posts
6
Joined
2/2/2023
Location
Leerbeek, BE
Hy, KTM changing their 2 stroke line-up from carb to TBI technologie has caused plenty of issues. Less performance(125), less tunable, map issues, maintenance, more complex, etc…One can argue that those problems are inevitable with new generation bikes/technology. Is it possible KTM group will ‘make amends’ and ditch EFI on 2 stroke engines when a decline in sales (plenty 23’s sx125 at the dealership showroom collecting dust) becomes undeniable? Or, KTM will continue with EFI technology and eventually keep up (surpass?) carburated 2 stroke?
Highly doubtful
I don’t think they will go back to carbs for the big bikes..
Sometimes a step or 2 backwards before forward. The 125 & 250 appear to have gone backwards, the 300 appears to have some glitches but o/all is an awesome bike. They will get them sorted out.
My opinion… they should’ve stayed with the 22’ carb engine, improve on durabilty(125 had great stock power but crankshaft/ecu issues), keep improving air shock technology, Eventually, doing the same as Yamaha has done with their 2 stroke line-up, and ending up with a machine that doesn’t need updates every other year and their 2 stroke bikes would sell like hot cakes for years.
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Can't say I'm not tempted to combine the epower-valve with my Super X STIC carb. FYI, there are ppl retrofitting tbi bikes.
I have to say that my 24 300SX has a great upgraded tune(WMR) and ride. It doesn't beat me up neither. Glad the PO paid for the mods.
The 16-22 motor is incredibly reliable for a 125. Some of the 22s just had shit cranks.
I’m not a KTM guy but I do respect the brand. They don’t do everything right but they get the big stuff right. Whatever 2 stroke issues they have will be worked out. With that said I wanted a two stroke but wasn’t ready to sign up for a new KTM 2T just yet. You can test till the cows come home but at some point ya got sell it to get all the bugs worked out. I don’t care what product it is.
With that said about KTM. I think Beta was smart with their 300 RX approach. Simple two mode setting Sunshine/rain modes. Simple carb and manual adjust PV. Pretty much trouble free and cost effective. KTM is probably throwing money at getting the bugs worked out of TBI where Beta is not. If it’s not broke don’t fix it.
No way they’ll go back to carb, the 23+ chassis would be sweet with a carb sx motor with estart, we can dream.
Pretty much everyone agrees the 21-22 chassis is better than the 23+
I keep hoping some aftermarket company makes a good, reliable ECU that will support a carb retrofit. One can only hope! Haha
Well it’s actually the same chassis 2019-2022, I have both, and I do not agree. The 23+ handles more precisely and has great ergos. I love the 19-22, have over 300hrs on them but they are not going back to the carb or back that chassis.
Derek Harris youtube, they remapped get ecu to the 23 125 and it's better than a full mod 22 and older 125.
Just like when efi came out and ktm came out with the mikuni replacement of keihin, once setup they rip. Shame they don't come setup stock, but the same can be said for fhe 2009 rmz450 or the recent Honda crf450 and many bikes inbetween.
It's like the myth that all air forks suck, so that means all spring forks are better... its all in the setup
The part you left out from Harris' video is that a well-running stock carb bike blows away both the mod-carb bike and the GET-TBI bike
, at least as far as his dyno comparisons show.
Dark blue = stock TBI bike
light blue = GET TBI bike
Green = mod carb bike
Red = stock carb bike
You got that wrong
Dark blue stock tbi
Light blue was the good running stock tbi
The dark red is the get tbi bike
The green is the modded carb bike and he says a stock carb bike is lil less.
Rewatch the video when he adds the good running stock tbi curve. The program changes the Get curve from light blue to dark red.
So actually the get tbi curve looks pretty good. I believe he said the get tbi vs the modded carb bikes. Hits peak power lower in the rev range vs the carb bike.
So the carb bike has better over rev capabilities vs the get tbi curve. Which might favor a more earlier shift point instead of just shifting way into the over rev past the sweet spot.
That's just the stock get map it comes with. Some tweaking could get the better over rev's back.
Yeah his verbiage the way he explains it is confusing. The order in which he explains it implies the "good running stock bike" is a carb bike,. but what he says later implies it's a TBI bike. But I think you're right on which line is which. You are right, that GET-TBI curve looks promising if further dialing can add a ton of overrev. Some things just cannot be overcome on a 125 by short shifting. Many times, jumps right out of corners are completely un-doable if you have no overrev and are forced to grab another gear at the worst time. Hopefully they get these bikes figured out, but I can say the few rides I have on them are not promising. Even when "tuned awesome" they just don't feel like they have the pull or drive that the carb bikes have.
I've got a 18 150 and love it.... it needed a lot of fing around with carbs to get it where it is.... do I think efi, battery and estsrt is needed on a 125? Probably not? Do I believe some of the new ones run like shit? Yes. Do I belive they will get it figured out? Yes.
Pit Row
So by all accounts from multiple tuners, the efi 125 isn't a dog, but the mapping is a million miles off.
Interesting that oem silencer is best, thats been same for a while.... you can't make big power with a fmf shorty borrowed from a 2002 rm125 lol.
On the 2018 150s, most silencers lost power.
I ve watched that video, in recent comments he claims to have gained more power uit of a carb bike. Anyways, efi is showing promising progress in tuning capabilities.
Indeed, the red is the get TBI, the green is the mod-carb with a little more over-rev.
But the issue is to only install resistors, as to fool a couple sensors.
The weight!...Good lawd!
I'm glad I see the 300SX as my alternative big thumper. Cuz with 1 gal of gas, it has +18lbs. on my '22YZ250f w/1 qt. gas and +29lbs. on my 200SX same amt gas!
The 300 shows the rear has +7 on the YZF and +11 on the 200. Up front it has +11 on the YZF and +17 on the 200.
On the track, it seemed to feel similar to the YZF and I read that the 300SX without gas was 220lbs.. So it should only be like about +5 over the YZF. Nope. But hey, I'm not getting days of forearm soreness like from my 200 with the same plush YZ front end and STIC Super X carb. The 300 is butta' and the green WMR map is fire with some short shifting and 50t out back.
End of rant.
Post a reply to: KTM 2 strokes back to carb?