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1/20/2022
Location
Riverside, CA, USA
Edited Date/Time
10/26/2023 3:30pm
Doing some reading about Ducati's latest big single:
https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/new-model-preview/ducati-reveals-659cc…
Thinking there will likely be serious crossover between this engine and their new 450 moto engine... If that's true, and if they stick with the desmodromic top end/valve train.... This thing could be gnarly.
Wild prediction - this engine makes class leading power... other makes are forced to make more power than they already do by making improvements to their valve trains...Everyone starts making way too much power then the AMA knocks max displacement down to 350cc
Crazy?
Everyone should make 350 anyway.
Desmo valves would be awesome... Not awesome for the average Joe out there, but awesome as in factory Ducati. I don't think Ducati is targeting the average Joe anyways with this bike.
From VitalMX
It was also confirmed that the bike would be created with the "Desmodromic system" that Ducati use to create a broad power delivery curve on all motorcycles that exit their Bologna facility.
Or they take the electronics / mapping to the next level so the riders are able to effectively use all that extra power.
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I wonder how this would result in broad power per se - It seems like the advantage is mainly that they can up the RPM without worrying about a traditional valvetrain - springs, valve float etc... Which could mean higher max RPM and more top end power... Might have more to learn on that.
That was the original intent of the Desmodronic valve system, springs and metallurgy weren't that good in the 1950s and floating valves were much more common as RPMs started getting higher and higher as technology improved. Desmo valves still actually require some springs to keep tension on the return arm albeit not nearly at the tension of normal valve springs.
It is a wonderfully engineered system and works but a bit unnecessary in the modern era but is Ducatis claim to fame and might provide very marginal benefits as the camshaft doesn't have to push against strong valve springs but the cam lobe is sloped so the spring returns that energy to the cam shaft upon closing so even that is sort of trivial.
They might be able to get it to rev slightly higher than a normal valvetrain but I dont think anyone is asking for bikes to rev HIGHER than they already do, if anything slower revving heavier rotating mass engines are a bit better for the masses.
You also have twice the amount of valve shims to check
Wait... who the Hail is Marry?
"... if anything slower revving heavier rotating mass engines are a bit better for the masses."
Agreed.
XR-style power can be extremely effective and doesn't exacerbate mistakes by the pilot as much as more repsonsive power delivery can.
Haha! Edited... Good eye - Spelling ain't my strong sute
100% - On top of that - for folks like me the speed 450's deliver with relatively no effort is the most dangerous part. After my last get-off on my 450 I'm back on the 125 where I have to work for the speed.
It's all good... just havin' some fun!
20" rear wheel.
Wild prediction: The new Cannondale
I suspect it may allow slightly broader pose by allowing the engineers to use cam profiles that wouldn't play nicely with springs. Otherwise it seems like unnecessary complexity in a dirt bike application. Even so I'm really pumped for a Ducati dirt bike and will probably buy one, cause I bet it'll be really pretty
If not as close as all the other clueless guesses!
I've dealt with Desmodromic Valve actuation for quite a few decades now. Since the 70s. They are not 'scary', at all.
Yes, they are / were a good way of defeating valve bounce / valve spring failure.
The main advantage they have nowadays, that so many don't know / understand, is the extremely rapid opening and closing of a valve / valves.
That and the lessening of valve overlap, is quite the thing.
And, Ducati have brought the valve inspection / adjustment intervals to fairly Large Ks / Hours. The "bad old days" of having only a few thousand miles / ks between inspections, and, perhaps adjustment, went away, largely, a few decades ago.
I'd say they will be aiming the bikes specs towards the "monied up" side of the market. Though, what I expect to be a higher price, may be negated by not having to change much with the bike. Though, that won't change some owners need to 'Bling' and personalize a bike. It's got a Termignoni as std? - Well, an Akrapovic may well appeal...... what's another couple of grand....?
My mate and I often sit in his Ducati workshop and Grey Import business, and reflect on how we would have gone "BS", if someone had said we'd be dealing with 230+HP V2 then V4 Ducatis, and 170+HP V4Valve spring Dukes in the years to come, way back when we started to work and play with them. We both marvel at it all. Both of us had dealings with RT450s.
And now we a seeing the return of a 450 class Desmo dirt Bike. And, a 600 /700cc class Single.
FanFugginTastic!
When it comes to Motorcycles, we live (and Have lived) in wonderful times.
Exciting vid'.
Couldn't disagree more, I say they come out swinging with something very , very competitive.
Pit Row
Just came across my dealer feed. Man that thing is insane. A 450 built like that, May be a game changer.
User name does not check out.
I think this is what has my interest piqued. Is it going to be like Motogp and WSBK where it took years for them to get to the top or they come out with their current dominating form right out of the gate? With Gigi there now, I don't put it past them to be right at the top very quickly.
Do you think the manufacturers are struggling to make the 450's more powerful? I'm sure they could all make them fire breathing dragons tomorrow if they wanted. It's more or making the power they already have usable for the general public. I feel like Honda has definitely toned down their 450, for instance
Agreed, all about being user friendly now, smooth tractable power.
Yamaha had an 80hp motor available for jimmy button in 99' if you believe the chatter, was pretty much unrideable.
23" front wheel
That would be a spectacular fail, but the comparison seems inapt. Cannondale never made a motorcycle. Ducati has been making motorcycles for almost 60 years, as long as Honda, and dominates at the highest level of road racing by virtue of their engineers.
Let me guess, much more expensive than the current crop of overpriced mx scooters.
Just another straw in the mx camels back.
It will be red.
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