Stark Orders and Payments

10/27/2023 12:11am
truck wrote:
I am sitting at work literally laughing out loud catching up on the last few pages of this. Appreciate all of you for the free entertainment...

I am sitting at work literally laughing out loud catching up on the last few pages of this. Appreciate all of you for the free entertainment!! Absolutely love that we've added a catastrophic failure to the mix this early on. Is it a total fluke just like any other bike could have, or is a failure such as this so early on with so few bikes out there a canary in the lithium mine?  Impossible to know at this point, but please pick a side and debate it with the utmost conviction!!! 

Seriously though, to the guy with the new bike and snow in the forecast, has anyone had these out in the cold yet? Curious if it has much impact on battery life? 

It's obviously catastrophic, the end of the road for Stark Future, how can you trust a brand that has a failure...

image-20231027180713-1

image-20231027180847-2

image-20231027181032-3

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Beagle
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10/27/2023 12:32am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2023 12:38am
Ouch. Hope the rider is OK.  Not a great look  , I wonder what happened that caused it?  Any more info on how it happened?  I'm...

Ouch. Hope the rider is OK.  Not a great look  , I wonder what happened that caused it?  Any more info on how it happened? 

I'm sure that MXaddic will know exactly what  happened................... 

But really I wonder what the details of the bike and everything are. 

 

RACING wrote:

Can't wait to read Beagle's official explanation.

Thank you racing, I trust you will find the time to send an email praising my efforts to Anton so I can get a fat Christmas bonus.

Personally I know when I don't know so I try to refrain from speculating, but I do enjoy talking about bikes so I'll take your kind invitation in this instance.

Without anymore information about this I see basically 4 possible explanations:

a. The Stark Varg frame is shit (aka they have a major flaw in design)

b. Stark is having serious quality control issues

c. It was the kind of incident that would have snapped any frame

d. It's the communists and they will soon shoot us all (seriously, take your meds people).

We need more info, for now I'm not convinced it would be a, just based on the abuse by Josh Hill, Travis Pastrana, Thomas Do in Arenacross UK, SX tour and the rider who podiumed in Austria super Enduro.

Until we get more details, I'm inclined to think it's either b or c. If we ever get more details about the fail it could really well turn out to be b, QC issue.

With over a thousand bikes in the wild and counting, that's the first time we hear about this, I guess time will tell if it's a, b or c.

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5
10/27/2023 12:34am

Never buy the first 1000 of anything new. 

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RACING
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10/27/2023 12:36am
It's obviously catastrophic, the end of the road for Stark Future, how can you trust a brand that has a failure...

It's obviously catastrophic, the end of the road for Stark Future, how can you trust a brand that has a failure...

image-20231027180713-1

image-20231027180847-2

image-20231027181032-3

Yeah, Stark is already challenging the other brands on their very first try!

Hurrah!

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The Shop

Beagle
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10/27/2023 12:41am
RACING wrote:

Yeah, Stark is already challenging the other brands on their very first try!

Hurrah!

Hell yeah, you bet they are!

 

 

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10/27/2023 1:19am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2023 1:23am
Ouch. Hope the rider is OK.  Not a great look  , I wonder what happened that caused it?  Any more info on how it happened?  I'm...

Ouch. Hope the rider is OK.  Not a great look  , I wonder what happened that caused it?  Any more info on how it happened? 

I'm sure that MXaddic will know exactly what  happened................... 

But really I wonder what the details of the bike and everything are. 

 

RACING wrote:

Can't wait to read Beagle's official explanation.

Beagle wrote:
Thank you racing, I trust you will find the time to send an email praising my efforts to Anton so I can get a fat Christmas bonus...

Thank you racing, I trust you will find the time to send an email praising my efforts to Anton so I can get a fat Christmas bonus.

Personally I know when I don't know so I try to refrain from speculating, but I do enjoy talking about bikes so I'll take your kind invitation in this instance.

Without anymore information about this I see basically 4 possible explanations:

a. The Stark Varg frame is shit (aka they have a major flaw in design)

b. Stark is having serious quality control issues

c. It was the kind of incident that would have snapped any frame

d. It's the communists and they will soon shoot us all (seriously, take your meds people).

We need more info, for now I'm not convinced it would be a, just based on the abuse by Josh Hill, Travis Pastrana, Thomas Do in Arenacross UK, SX tour and the rider who podiumed in Austria super Enduro.

Until we get more details, I'm inclined to think it's either b or c. If we ever get more details about the fail it could really well turn out to be b, QC issue.

With over a thousand bikes in the wild and counting, that's the first time we hear about this, I guess time will tell if it's a, b or c.

Woah, woah, don't be too fast in discrediting d.

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RACING
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10/27/2023 1:25am
RACING wrote:

Yeah, Stark is already challenging the other brands on their very first try!

Hurrah!

Beagle wrote:
Hell yeah, you bet they are!    

Hell yeah, you bet they are!

 

 

Woah, the guy who can't podium SX tour 250, even riding Harry Potter's magic broom, again? 

Laughing

Speaking of magic broom, this vid shows clearly that an average regional rider riding a Stark remains an average regional rider.

 

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10/27/2023 1:27am
RACING wrote:

Yeah, Stark is already challenging the other brands on their very first try!

Hurrah!

Beagle wrote:
Hell yeah, you bet they are!    

Hell yeah, you bet they are!

 

 

RACING wrote:
Woah, the guy who can't podium SX tour 250, even riding Harry Potter's magic broom, again?  Speaking of magic broom, this vid shows clearly that an...

Woah, the guy who can't podium SX tour 250, even riding Harry Potter's magic broom, again? 

Laughing

Speaking of magic broom, this vid shows clearly that an average regional rider riding a Stark remains an average regional rider.

 

This video shows it's not the bike's horse power, it's the rider's skill, determination and fitness, that determines the result...

 

 

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Beagle
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10/27/2023 1:58am
RACING wrote:
Woah, the guy who can't podium SX tour 250, even riding Harry Potter's magic broom, again?  Speaking of magic broom, this vid shows clearly that an...

Woah, the guy who can't podium SX tour 250, even riding Harry Potter's magic broom, again? 

Laughing

Speaking of magic broom, this vid shows clearly that an average regional rider riding a Stark remains an average regional rider.

 

You're right Do can't podium yet against 250s in SX2, in 4 races his best result is 4th.

But more importantly, he had no problem beating 450s at the first try.

I'm real glad that you're posting a video to relieve some riders of their anxiety that EMX are magic, remove all skills from the sport, and will crush the ICE competition even when ridden by noobs.

Yep it's new, it's electric, but it's still a bike, and the rider makes the difference.

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djr
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10/27/2023 3:39am
It's obviously catastrophic, the end of the road for Stark Future, how can you trust a brand that has a failure...

It's obviously catastrophic, the end of the road for Stark Future, how can you trust a brand that has a failure...

image-20231027180713-1

image-20231027180847-2

image-20231027181032-3

So how old are the bikes with broken frames in those photos ?

It's important for context as those bikes could be a few years old with a lot of hours on them, yet Any Stark can only be days or weeks old, which is a BIG difference.

Also , the best estimate is that there are a few hundred, maybe a thousand Stark bikes in existence at the moment, whereas  KTM group & the big 4 make 10s of thousands of bikes each year, so it is a bit different statistically - 1 failure per 5000 against 1 failure per 1000

Also , it looks like that broken piece is part of the motor casing ? How easy to fix is that compared to a frame. (more importantly how many £$€)

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tek14
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10/27/2023 3:57am
Ouch. Hope the rider is OK.  Not a great look  , I wonder what happened that caused it?  Any more info on how it happened?  I'm...

Ouch. Hope the rider is OK.  Not a great look  , I wonder what happened that caused it?  Any more info on how it happened? 

I'm sure that MXaddic will know exactly what  happened................... 

But really I wonder what the details of the bike and everything are. 

 

RACING wrote:

Can't wait to read Beagle's official explanation.

Beagle wrote:
Thank you racing, I trust you will find the time to send an email praising my efforts to Anton so I can get a fat Christmas bonus...

Thank you racing, I trust you will find the time to send an email praising my efforts to Anton so I can get a fat Christmas bonus.

Personally I know when I don't know so I try to refrain from speculating, but I do enjoy talking about bikes so I'll take your kind invitation in this instance.

Without anymore information about this I see basically 4 possible explanations:

a. The Stark Varg frame is shit (aka they have a major flaw in design)

b. Stark is having serious quality control issues

c. It was the kind of incident that would have snapped any frame

d. It's the communists and they will soon shoot us all (seriously, take your meds people).

We need more info, for now I'm not convinced it would be a, just based on the abuse by Josh Hill, Travis Pastrana, Thomas Do in Arenacross UK, SX tour and the rider who podiumed in Austria super Enduro.

Until we get more details, I'm inclined to think it's either b or c. If we ever get more details about the fail it could really well turn out to be b, QC issue.

With over a thousand bikes in the wild and counting, that's the first time we hear about this, I guess time will tell if it's a, b or c.

It appears that frame was pre-production unit not one sold to customers and frame been redesigned between. 

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early
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10/27/2023 4:16am

Call me crazy but I think offroad motorcycles should have frames, not stressed castings. 

Hope Stark can get this sorted, pulling for those guys.

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wr74
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10/27/2023 4:31am
RACING wrote:

Can't wait to read Beagle's official explanation.

Beagle wrote:
Thank you racing, I trust you will find the time to send an email praising my efforts to Anton so I can get a fat Christmas bonus...

Thank you racing, I trust you will find the time to send an email praising my efforts to Anton so I can get a fat Christmas bonus.

Personally I know when I don't know so I try to refrain from speculating, but I do enjoy talking about bikes so I'll take your kind invitation in this instance.

Without anymore information about this I see basically 4 possible explanations:

a. The Stark Varg frame is shit (aka they have a major flaw in design)

b. Stark is having serious quality control issues

c. It was the kind of incident that would have snapped any frame

d. It's the communists and they will soon shoot us all (seriously, take your meds people).

We need more info, for now I'm not convinced it would be a, just based on the abuse by Josh Hill, Travis Pastrana, Thomas Do in Arenacross UK, SX tour and the rider who podiumed in Austria super Enduro.

Until we get more details, I'm inclined to think it's either b or c. If we ever get more details about the fail it could really well turn out to be b, QC issue.

With over a thousand bikes in the wild and counting, that's the first time we hear about this, I guess time will tell if it's a, b or c.

tek14 wrote:

It appears that frame was pre-production unit not one sold to customers and frame been redesigned between. 

So the production bike is a different design and does not attach the linkage to the cast al engine casing ?  Genuine q, I don’t have a stark to check. Seems a super sketchy design to me.

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RACING
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10/27/2023 6:36am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2023 6:40am
tek14 wrote:

It appears that frame was pre-production unit not one sold to customers and frame been redesigned between. 

If they modified the frame, it won't change anything, since what broke is not the frame.

Wink

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RACING
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10/27/2023 6:41am
wr74 wrote:
So the production bike is a different design and does not attach the linkage to the cast al engine casing ?  Genuine q, I don’t have...

So the production bike is a different design and does not attach the linkage to the cast al engine casing ?  Genuine q, I don’t have a stark to check. Seems a super sketchy design to me.

Quite bold and original to say the least...

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vdrsnk04
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10/27/2023 6:44am

Never buy the first 1000 of anything new. 

So don’t buy this new model year of yz250f since it’s a complete model change, wait until the next year. Got it, the logic is clear. 

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MxAddic
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10/27/2023 6:50am

Silly Spaniards, Trix are for kids...

Seems they are better at propaganda than engineering after all.

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fourfourone
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10/27/2023 7:08am
MxAddic wrote:

Silly Spaniards, Trix are for kids...

Seems they are better at propaganda than engineering after all.

Do you wake up, rub your hands together in excitement knowing you're going to go right on vital and make stupid comments over and over and over and over and over. 

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MxAddic
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10/27/2023 7:13am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2023 7:16am
Do you wake up, rub your hands together in excitement knowing you're going to go right on vital and make stupid comments over and over and...

Do you wake up, rub your hands together in excitement knowing you're going to go right on vital and make stupid comments over and over and over and over and over. 

No but evidently you wake up looking to jump on my dick. Tongue

Glad I didn't disappoint.

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crt32
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10/27/2023 7:15am

In Josh Hill's YouTube video his Stark started losing power at 20 mins and he stopped doing jumps. He thought it might be a temp issue because after he took a break and jumped back on had normal speed again. But the track was not deep and pretty flowy, so getting hot at 20 mins and going into limp mode doesn't seem ideal. 

Also, my kid's Stacyc batteries (just like my laptop, phone, and other items) do not hold the same length of charge as it did brand new. Is it safe to assume the STARK battery charge time will also decrease over the life?

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Andrew314
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10/27/2023 7:24am
crt32 wrote:
In Josh Hill's YouTube video his Stark started losing power at 20 mins and he stopped doing jumps. He thought it might be a temp issue...

In Josh Hill's YouTube video his Stark started losing power at 20 mins and he stopped doing jumps. He thought it might be a temp issue because after he took a break and jumped back on had normal speed again. But the track was not deep and pretty flowy, so getting hot at 20 mins and going into limp mode doesn't seem ideal. 

Also, my kid's Stacyc batteries (just like my laptop, phone, and other items) do not hold the same length of charge as it did brand new. Is it safe to assume the STARK battery charge time will also decrease over the life?

Yes. Then once the battery is junk, you will bury it in the dirt. Because we are trying to save the planet, all while the little african boy slaves are digging up the minerals for your new battery. Just trust the science guys.

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RACING
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10/27/2023 7:38am
crt32 wrote:
In Josh Hill's YouTube video his Stark started losing power at 20 mins and he stopped doing jumps. He thought it might be a temp issue...

In Josh Hill's YouTube video his Stark started losing power at 20 mins and he stopped doing jumps. He thought it might be a temp issue because after he took a break and jumped back on had normal speed again. But the track was not deep and pretty flowy, so getting hot at 20 mins and going into limp mode doesn't seem ideal. 

Also, my kid's Stacyc batteries (just like my laptop, phone, and other items) do not hold the same length of charge as it did brand new. Is it safe to assume the STARK battery charge time will also decrease over the life?

Or maybe he stopped doing jumps because he felt something funky was going on with his shock linkage.

Or both.

Laughing

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crt32
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10/27/2023 7:44am
crt32 wrote:
In Josh Hill's YouTube video his Stark started losing power at 20 mins and he stopped doing jumps. He thought it might be a temp issue...

In Josh Hill's YouTube video his Stark started losing power at 20 mins and he stopped doing jumps. He thought it might be a temp issue because after he took a break and jumped back on had normal speed again. But the track was not deep and pretty flowy, so getting hot at 20 mins and going into limp mode doesn't seem ideal. 

Also, my kid's Stacyc batteries (just like my laptop, phone, and other items) do not hold the same length of charge as it did brand new. Is it safe to assume the STARK battery charge time will also decrease over the life?

Curiosity got me so quick Google. I know it's only one article. 

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioratio….

Line chart showing Tesla Model S battery deterioration over time by car age including trend line

10/27/2023 8:08am

Does anyone know what a replacement battery is worth? 

-MAVERICK-
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10/27/2023 8:12am

Does anyone know what a replacement battery is worth? 

7k USD. 

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Beagle
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10/27/2023 8:22am
Andrew314 wrote:
Yes. Then once the battery is junk, you will bury it in the dirt. Because we are trying to save the planet, all while the little...

Yes. Then once the battery is junk, you will bury it in the dirt. Because we are trying to save the planet, all while the little african boy slaves are digging up the minerals for your new battery. Just trust the science guys.

Yes Li batteries will degrade over time and I believe the ones used by Stark are rated for 500-1000 cycles. But more importantly than rating, real life data will tell us in some years how long they are reliable and if you ever need to change it before switching bikes (as long as you're not a pro rider I don't think this will be an issue).

Dear Andrew, I applaud your concern for the environment, obviously you're not typing this from a smartphone or laptop, are you?

Because if you are really concerned about cobalt, you know than smartphone batteries, laptop batteries and most consumer electronics use cobalt. Obviously it's a tiny amount compared to the amount of cobalt contained in the Varg battery, right? About 8 g for a smartphone compared to about 2.7 kg for the Varg battery. But the production numbers will turn this on its head.

Let's keep it simple and focus on just one smartphone brand. Every year Apple sells over 200 millions iphones, that are using about 1 600 tons of Co.

If Stark were to use as much Co as Apple needs just for its iphones, they would have to sell about 600 000 Vargs every year.

And I'm not talking about Apple entire range of products, nor about the other smartphone manufacturers, not even about laptops, tablets and so on, just iphones.

Now say Stark are very successful and sell 20 000 Vargs a year, which may be on par with 450s sales for the most successful manufacturers, that would be about 3% of the Co used just for iPhones.

I hope this alleviates your concern.

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Beagle
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10/27/2023 8:25am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2023 8:27am
crt32 wrote:
Curiosity got me so quick Google. I know it's only one article.  https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration#:~:text=Tesla%20Battery%20Degradation%20by%20Age%20of%20Car&text=As%20you%20can%20see%20in,its%20original%20capacity%20and%20range.

Curiosity got me so quick Google. I know it's only one article. 

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioratio….

Line chart showing Tesla Model S battery deterioration over time by car age including trend line

Yeah keeping 80-90% capacity after 10 years seems about right for current NMC batteries.

So you can expect to lose about 5 min of range with your Varg in 10 years. But the good thing is that you'll be 10 years older so the break will be welcome Laughing

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10/27/2023 8:30am
crt32 wrote:
In Josh Hill's YouTube video his Stark started losing power at 20 mins and he stopped doing jumps. He thought it might be a temp issue...

In Josh Hill's YouTube video his Stark started losing power at 20 mins and he stopped doing jumps. He thought it might be a temp issue because after he took a break and jumped back on had normal speed again. But the track was not deep and pretty flowy, so getting hot at 20 mins and going into limp mode doesn't seem ideal. 

Also, my kid's Stacyc batteries (just like my laptop, phone, and other items) do not hold the same length of charge as it did brand new. Is it safe to assume the STARK battery charge time will also decrease over the life?

crt32 wrote:
Curiosity got me so quick Google. I know it's only one article.  https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration#:~:text=Tesla%20Battery%20Degradation%20by%20Age%20of%20Car&text=As%20you%20can%20see%20in,its%20original%20capacity%20and%20range.

Curiosity got me so quick Google. I know it's only one article. 

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioratio….

Line chart showing Tesla Model S battery deterioration over time by car age including trend line

And how many 10 year old MX bikes are out there running at better than 80% of what they were when new? How many times will You have to rebuild an engine, change oil, clean filters, etc during that time? There are many variables that can impact the lifespans of a battery. That have been posted about multiple times already.  

1
6
Andrew314
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10/27/2023 8:31am

Does anyone know what a replacement battery is worth? 

-MAVERICK- wrote:

7k USD. 

hahaha this whole charade keeps getting better and better.

4
Andrew314
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10/27/2023 8:35am
Beagle wrote:
Yes Li batteries will degrade over time and I believe the ones used by Stark are rated for 500-1000 cycles. But more importantly than rating, real...

Yes Li batteries will degrade over time and I believe the ones used by Stark are rated for 500-1000 cycles. But more importantly than rating, real life data will tell us in some years how long they are reliable and if you ever need to change it before switching bikes (as long as you're not a pro rider I don't think this will be an issue).

Dear Andrew, I applaud your concern for the environment, obviously you're not typing this from a smartphone or laptop, are you?

Because if you are really concerned about cobalt, you know than smartphone batteries, laptop batteries and most consumer electronics use cobalt. Obviously it's a tiny amount compared to the amount of cobalt contained in the Varg battery, right? About 8 g for a smartphone compared to about 2.7 kg for the Varg battery. But the production numbers will turn this on its head.

Let's keep it simple and focus on just one smartphone brand. Every year Apple sells over 200 millions iphones, that are using about 1 600 tons of Co.

If Stark were to use as much Co as Apple needs just for its iphones, they would have to sell about 600 000 Vargs every year.

And I'm not talking about Apple entire range of products, nor about the other smartphone manufacturers, not even about laptops, tablets and so on, just iphones.

Now say Stark are very successful and sell 20 000 Vargs a year, which may be on par with 450s sales for the most successful manufacturers, that would be about 3% of the Co used just for iPhones.

I hope this alleviates your concern.

I applaud your open support to child slave labor. We will definitely save this planet one electric bike/car at a time.

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