Stark Vargs (as in plural)

BCE
Posts
47
Joined
4/15/2019
Location
NL
9/6/2023 12:25am

Recently there are 2 demos in the Netherlands.
Yesterday I was able to take a test drive.
Had a lot of fun.
The motorcycle feels very narrow and compact.
The track was pretty loose.
After 10 minutes, 30% of the battery capacity had already been used.
So that a pro can ride it for 30 minutes on anything other than a hardpack track will not work.
The motorcycle is really neatly put together.
The plastic feels a bit flimsy.
And I don't like the phone on the bar.
Way too fragile.
A bit more power than the Alta.
But not that much better than I expected.
Too bad there are only 2 parameters to set.
Throttle response should also be a parameter in my opinion.
I wonder what the price will turn out when they finaly catch up with production.
And if the company will survive.

3
BCE
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47
Joined
4/15/2019
Location
NL
9/6/2023 12:38am

Knipsel

MBR
Posts
1217
Joined
9/1/2011
Location
FI
9/6/2023 12:45am
Beagle wrote:
47 years old Fin veteran enters the chat     About the range: He gets over 1 hour on hardpack MX track (before battery gets to...

47 years old Fin veteran enters the chat

 

 

About the range:

He gets over 1 hour on hardpack MX track (before battery gets to 15% and reduced power).

30 min deep sand outdoors track.

1.5 - 2 h on single track enduro

For MX he uses about 1.5% per min of riding, (and can charge at 1% per min on 220 V), here are 3 scenarios to show what this range would mean in the real world:

1. if you don't ride much, say 3 times 20 min sessions (or 4 times 15 min) you don't need to charge at the track.

2. if you do 30 min sessions and rest (charge the battery) for 45 min after every session you always start from fully charged battery so you can ride all day (with generator or outlet at the track).

3. say you do 30 min sessions then only rest for 30 min you could easily do 5 times 30 min before lunch break (1h15 min to get back to 100%).

As always, your mileage may vary, agreed the gas tank is a great analogy, depending on terrain, riding style and skills you may use more or less battery, just like your buddy may empty his tank sooner or later than you.

Thanks for the mention. I wasn't able to ride 3 x 20 min motos on full size motocross track without charging Stark Varg. To be able to do it, I charged the bike for 20 - 30min between each moto from 220v power outlet at the track. 

Beagle
Posts
1770
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse FR
9/6/2023 3:50am
MBR wrote:
Thanks for the mention. I wasn't able to ride 3 x 20 min motos on full size motocross track without charging Stark Varg. To be able...

Thanks for the mention. I wasn't able to ride 3 x 20 min motos on full size motocross track without charging Stark Varg. To be able to do it, I charged the bike for 20 - 30min between each moto from 220v power outlet at the track. 

Thanks for the info, so how much battery do you use for 20 min moto? 

And more importantly, how does it feel riding the Varg?

Sorry I don't speak Finnish so could just go with the English description below the video. I've seen other videos by Manninen bros talking about the bike but still don't understand a single word 😁

1

The Shop

JM485
Posts
5796
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA US
9/6/2023 7:29am
BCE wrote:
Recently there are 2 demos in the Netherlands. Yesterday I was able to take a test drive. Had a lot of fun. The motorcycle feels very...

Recently there are 2 demos in the Netherlands.
Yesterday I was able to take a test drive.
Had a lot of fun.
The motorcycle feels very narrow and compact.
The track was pretty loose.
After 10 minutes, 30% of the battery capacity had already been used.
So that a pro can ride it for 30 minutes on anything other than a hardpack track will not work.
The motorcycle is really neatly put together.
The plastic feels a bit flimsy.
And I don't like the phone on the bar.
Way too fragile.
A bit more power than the Alta.
But not that much better than I expected.
Too bad there are only 2 parameters to set.
Throttle response should also be a parameter in my opinion.
I wonder what the price will turn out when they finaly catch up with production.
And if the company will survive.

Just for reference, you can't extrapolate battery percentage in a linear way for the full range, the battery will taper off faster near the beginning, then hold a lot more steady near that 70%-30% range before tapering off again at a faster rate.  I don't remember the exact reasoning, but it has something to do with the difficulty in measuring true capacity based on Voltage and translating that to a percentage figure that is easy to read, so in actuality you would probably get a decent amount more range than you're thinking.  There will also be additional parameters added to the phone app over time, this is just what they are starting with, and I would bet throttle response will likely be one of those parameters.    

1
2
BCE
Posts
47
Joined
4/15/2019
Location
NL
9/6/2023 7:43am
BCE wrote:
Recently there are 2 demos in the Netherlands. Yesterday I was able to take a test drive. Had a lot of fun. The motorcycle feels very...

Recently there are 2 demos in the Netherlands.
Yesterday I was able to take a test drive.
Had a lot of fun.
The motorcycle feels very narrow and compact.
The track was pretty loose.
After 10 minutes, 30% of the battery capacity had already been used.
So that a pro can ride it for 30 minutes on anything other than a hardpack track will not work.
The motorcycle is really neatly put together.
The plastic feels a bit flimsy.
And I don't like the phone on the bar.
Way too fragile.
A bit more power than the Alta.
But not that much better than I expected.
Too bad there are only 2 parameters to set.
Throttle response should also be a parameter in my opinion.
I wonder what the price will turn out when they finaly catch up with production.
And if the company will survive.

JM485 wrote:
Just for reference, you can't extrapolate battery percentage in a linear way for the full range, the battery will taper off faster near the beginning, then...

Just for reference, you can't extrapolate battery percentage in a linear way for the full range, the battery will taper off faster near the beginning, then hold a lot more steady near that 70%-30% range before tapering off again at a faster rate.  I don't remember the exact reasoning, but it has something to do with the difficulty in measuring true capacity based on Voltage and translating that to a percentage figure that is easy to read, so in actuality you would probably get a decent amount more range than you're thinking.  There will also be additional parameters added to the phone app over time, this is just what they are starting with, and I would bet throttle response will likely be one of those parameters.    

This was one of their first days of testing.
You could reserve an hour and you could drive 2 times 10 minutes.
In the meantime, the bike was on the charger.
After the first hour, they set the limit at 45 horsepower to save battery. But after the second hour (4x 10 minutes with charging in between) the battery was below 15%.

And then the power is severely limited.

This was of course on a loose sand track.

The motor and battery were also very hot.

4
WCRider
Posts
3129
Joined
8/19/2017
Location
BE
9/6/2023 8:30am

Can't wait to see the new fire resistant collection from Alpinestars. Neck burn baby. 

1
JM485
Posts
5796
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA US
9/6/2023 8:52am
BCE wrote:
This was one of their first days of testing. You could reserve an hour and you could drive 2 times 10 minutes. In the meantime, the...

This was one of their first days of testing.
You could reserve an hour and you could drive 2 times 10 minutes.
In the meantime, the bike was on the charger.
After the first hour, they set the limit at 45 horsepower to save battery. But after the second hour (4x 10 minutes with charging in between) the battery was below 15%.

And then the power is severely limited.

This was of course on a loose sand track.

The motor and battery were also very hot.

I see, I didn't realize this was on a sand track, that makes a lot more sense.  If you were limited to 45hp on a sand track that's not going to be any fun at all and definitely isn't a good indicator of what the bike is actually capable of, they aren't doing themselves any favors having people demo the bike under those conditions. 

Broseph
Posts
1190
Joined
4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA US
9/6/2023 9:44am
BCE wrote:
Recently there are 2 demos in the Netherlands. Yesterday I was able to take a test drive. Had a lot of fun. The motorcycle feels very...

Recently there are 2 demos in the Netherlands.
Yesterday I was able to take a test drive.
Had a lot of fun.
The motorcycle feels very narrow and compact.
The track was pretty loose.
After 10 minutes, 30% of the battery capacity had already been used.
So that a pro can ride it for 30 minutes on anything other than a hardpack track will not work.
The motorcycle is really neatly put together.
The plastic feels a bit flimsy.
And I don't like the phone on the bar.
Way too fragile.
A bit more power than the Alta.
But not that much better than I expected.
Too bad there are only 2 parameters to set.
Throttle response should also be a parameter in my opinion.
I wonder what the price will turn out when they finaly catch up with production.
And if the company will survive.

JM485 wrote:
Just for reference, you can't extrapolate battery percentage in a linear way for the full range, the battery will taper off faster near the beginning, then...

Just for reference, you can't extrapolate battery percentage in a linear way for the full range, the battery will taper off faster near the beginning, then hold a lot more steady near that 70%-30% range before tapering off again at a faster rate.  I don't remember the exact reasoning, but it has something to do with the difficulty in measuring true capacity based on Voltage and translating that to a percentage figure that is easy to read, so in actuality you would probably get a decent amount more range than you're thinking.  There will also be additional parameters added to the phone app over time, this is just what they are starting with, and I would bet throttle response will likely be one of those parameters.    

Couldn’t the software take this into account and display a linear battery percentage from 100 to 0? Seems more useful that way. 

1
early
Posts
9814
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
9/6/2023 9:50am
Broseph wrote:

Couldn’t the software take this into account and display a linear battery percentage from 100 to 0? Seems more useful that way. 

The gas gauge would drop like a rock after half tank on every Chevy I've ever owned  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

3
djr
Posts
147
Joined
1/18/2015
Location
GB
9/6/2023 10:22am
BCE wrote:
This was one of their first days of testing. You could reserve an hour and you could drive 2 times 10 minutes. In the meantime, the...

This was one of their first days of testing.
You could reserve an hour and you could drive 2 times 10 minutes.
In the meantime, the bike was on the charger.
After the first hour, they set the limit at 45 horsepower to save battery. But after the second hour (4x 10 minutes with charging in between) the battery was below 15%.

And then the power is severely limited.

This was of course on a loose sand track.

The motor and battery were also very hot.

JM485 wrote:
I see, I didn't realize this was on a sand track, that makes a lot more sense.  If you were limited to 45hp on a sand...

I see, I didn't realize this was on a sand track, that makes a lot more sense.  If you were limited to 45hp on a sand track that's not going to be any fun at all and definitely isn't a good indicator of what the bike is actually capable of, they aren't doing themselves any favors having people demo the bike under those conditions. 

They  may not be doing themselves any favours with a demo in those conditions,   but they are doing potential customers a big favour doing a demo in those conditions.

There are a lot of sand tracks all around the world, in some places nothing but sand.

So buyers need to know how the bike gets on in those conditions 

1
Beagle
Posts
1770
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse FR
9/7/2023 3:10pm

Here are some pictures I stole from Facebook, there are some cool Vargs out there

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372994298 2983132181822811 3193102552829949578 n

375834225 195772166849930 5959329556124914190 n.jpg?VersionId=aoiO3G

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IMG 20230908 000431.jpg?VersionId=b6HlKxbehEsrl6QNjA2ljUTqVy

IMG 20230908 000539.jpg?VersionId=hkU8.Eu44

 

4
2
Beagle
Posts
1770
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse FR
9/7/2023 3:17pm

The Varg doesn't look half bad in supermoto either

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370686813 996744695082411 1207664947033017305 n 0

 

This one is directly from Stark account but still crazy!

368239937 600075175630024 839027509093460496 n

 

And finally, this is a tribute 

347254268 3518198871774058 6523041238072208316 n

14
2
JM485
Posts
5796
Joined
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Location
Davis, CA US
9/7/2023 4:56pm
Broseph wrote:

Couldn’t the software take this into account and display a linear battery percentage from 100 to 0? Seems more useful that way. 

I’m not familiar enough with the technical challenges associated with it to give you an answer as to why, I just know I’ve been told before that it’s not very easy to do for whatever reason.  If it was simple to implement everyone would be doing it Laughing

1
BobPA
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8327
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10/31/2013
Location
PA US
9/7/2023 5:52pm
Here we go again with the resident shill comment. Shame on me first clicking "BUY" first and being an electric dirtbike enthusiast who happens to be...

Here we go again with the resident shill comment. Shame on me first clicking "BUY" first and being an electric dirtbike enthusiast who happens to be smart, articulate, and a halfway decent rider.... shame on me!

Grow up.

Here's another customer who owns 2:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CtXDxv1M0fj

Old post, I know. But still relevant. 

I%2C Too%2C Am Extraordinarily Humble.jpg?VersionId=PjhVf2rWaK31 TR1sibwtZDAs

4
Broseph
Posts
1190
Joined
4/28/2018
Location
Stevenson, WA US
9/7/2023 6:38pm
Here we go again with the resident shill comment. Shame on me first clicking "BUY" first and being an electric dirtbike enthusiast who happens to be...

Here we go again with the resident shill comment. Shame on me first clicking "BUY" first and being an electric dirtbike enthusiast who happens to be smart, articulate, and a halfway decent rider.... shame on me!

Grow up.

Here's another customer who owns 2:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CtXDxv1M0fj

BobPA wrote:
Old post, I know. But still relevant. 

Old post, I know. But still relevant. 

I%2C Too%2C Am Extraordinarily Humble.jpg?VersionId=PjhVf2rWaK31 TR1sibwtZDAs

Don’t forget to like and subscribe.

7
Chippy
Posts
189
Joined
11/18/2019
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
9/8/2023 7:48pm

The SM setup looks sweet. 

1
Beagle
Posts
1770
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse FR
9/9/2023 11:32am

913 posted a new vid, that's just him riding his great private track. In these conditions range anxiety is not a thing but he used 68% battery in 90 min (set on 55 hp). Obviously it depends on the track and rider but that's still a pretty respectable range.

 

 

5
9/9/2023 6:52pm
Beagle wrote:
913 posted a new vid, that's just him riding his great private track. In these conditions range anxiety is not a thing but he used 68%...

913 posted a new vid, that's just him riding his great private track. In these conditions range anxiety is not a thing but he used 68% battery in 90 min (set on 55 hp). Obviously it depends on the track and rider but that's still a pretty respectable range.

 

 

I don't know if I'm more jealous of his Varg or his backyard track!

Beagle
Posts
1770
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse FR
9/17/2023 2:08pm

Pretty comprehensive range test is in by ECR.

All the details are in the vid and on their website.

Enduro trail mountain ride (40 hp, 50% regen): 2h11min (54 km / 34 mi) with 1800 m / 6000 ft elevation change. Different settings and scenery but that's about what Enforcer Enduro reported.

Slow leisure trail (25 hp, 50% regen): 3h24min (80 km / 44 mi)

Pro MX Thunder Valley (40-50 hp, 50% regen): 56 min (29 km / 18 mi)

MX IMI motorsports complex (40-50 hp, 50% regen): 1h4min (29 km / 18 mi)

These are practice days, seems plenty enough for amateurs and vet riders, provided you have means to charge between sessions. For pro competition right now we know it's perfectly fine for 15 min SX, we'll see quite soon for longer times.

https://electriccyclerider.com/2023/09/17/stark-varg-battery-range-test/

 

 

2
cmotodad
Posts
1007
Joined
12/18/2013
Location
Yorba Linda, CA US
9/17/2023 6:06pm

At the track today there was a local dealer doing a staff ride day with a Varg. I saw it at the end of the day, so I had to walk over and take a close look. After a bit of conversation, I was able to ride the bike up and down the parking area. Tracks had already closed for the day. Since I have a couple garage built electric CRF's, it was cool to be able to make some limited comparisons. Very thin feeling bike, low bars and high hard  feeling seat. Rode it in the parameters set by the dealership. Very tunable for different skill and conditions. Not impressed by choice of material used for the plastics compared to what we are used to having on current MX bikes. Rear brake pedal had a different feel. It will be interesting when they are out in masses.

9/17/2023 8:51pm

Curious how a pro at thunder valley mx was able to go 56min on a charge, yet i used 83% in 30 minutes at Cahuilla. Pretty similar tracks.

1
9/17/2023 9:04pm
Curious how a pro at thunder valley mx was able to go 56min on a charge, yet i used 83% in 30 minutes at Cahuilla. Pretty...

Curious how a pro at thunder valley mx was able to go 56min on a charge, yet i used 83% in 30 minutes at Cahuilla. Pretty similar tracks.

The video said he had some quick stops and some cruises on the water truck track, which were included in the 56 minutes of ride time.

cmotodad
Posts
1007
Joined
12/18/2013
Location
Yorba Linda, CA US
9/18/2023 2:47pm

Bryan, What is the real world battery life at your speed?

9/18/2023 5:24pm
cmotodad wrote:

Bryan, What is the real world battery life at your speed?

He's posted videos...

 

 

Beagle
Posts
1770
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse FR
9/22/2023 3:03pm

Interesting comments, first impressions from riders with different skill levels

 

 

1
Beagle
Posts
1770
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse FR
9/23/2023 12:24pm

I haven't yet seen someone not enjoying his time riding the Varg. Comments from amateurs, pro riders and ex pro riders are pretty similar to what we've been hearing for a year.

 

 

2

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