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Can you not tell that these are two completely different engines? Yes, there are similarities in the overall design but every single part is very clearly different.
Craziest part I've heard is that they're actually running both a front AND rear wheel, just like KTM. Maybe it is another KTM clone like Husqvarna or GASGAS after all... 😞
It's amazing people complaining how it looks like a KTM engine. Why does that actually matter? Does someone who drives a Mustang, worry what a Camaro engine looks like? If they saw the 2 engines on the floor, could they tell which is which? 99% of owners, no. It doesn't matter. Triumph is doing their thing. Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Beta, Sherco and many other dirt bike engines all look the same to a layman. Give it up for Triumph, coming into a game where the market is somewhat flooded in options... At least they're investing and putting their money into our sport, rather than pushing damn electrics! Roll with it, stop the bitching! Go Triumph!!
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Exactly my thoughts. Pound for pound, hype Vs. What we’re actually seeing, it’s nonsense.
it’s just a bike.
similar frame to everything else, similar motor to everything else, nothing revolutionary like it’s being hyped to be.
let’s face it, most people will simply buy or not buy based on the aesthetics. This bike isn’t going to transform yours or anyone else’s race results.
Put this together to show the similarities and differences between some of the engines across the board.
I see four engine designs: A Honda, a Yamaha, a Kawasuki joint venture and a KTM with its clone.
What‘s your point?
Just the keyboard warriors out, doing their thing. They want it to look different. Nothing about performance in any way, just 'look different'. 'And look different now!' Imagine these boneheads sitting in their bedroom... hiding behind the desk, on a break from their little video games!
To be fair VVT, VTC, proper VANOS, all that stuff is kinda negated by a shift lever or even the clutch in a sub-100kg competition bike geared like these things are.
If you watch the video, the Triumph/KTM engines aren't even as visually similar as they first look at a glance and we don't know any valve size or angle details, we don't know any cam details, throttle body details, we can't see the ports, we haven't seen the map files from the ECU, we have no clue on gear ratios or design (Kawi recently made strides with this)...
For someone so emotional about people shit-talking those electric things, you sound awful upset about Triumph and you're doing the same kind of whining here.
Kawi and Suzuki engines are not a joint venture.
Too bad Triumph didn't see fit to differentiate with a right side shifter and drive.
First of all, I‘m not emotional about the Stark bike in any way. I just love good and innovative engineering and I like to argue about that stuff. That’s it!
And that is also why I‘m disappointed by the Triumph! I was hoping for something new and exciting and then they just copy an engine from the competition.
The engine is very much the same as the KTM and also copied it’s one and only flaw: the relatively flat intake manifold. They use the same cylinder head and valve train design (counter rotating cams with finger follower actuated valves) and the same general layout of the gearbox, clutch (they sadly didn’t copy the cool one-piece steel clutch basket), water and oil pump, electric start and throttle body. If they would have at least paired it with a downdraft intake, I would have been fine. But overall that’s just boring!
Maybe they‘ve just wasted money for R&D on hiring the guys they show in the videos.
Question: who does the engineering? Are there any Englishman involved?
BTW: the mechanical VVT from Suzuki’s MotoGP bikes would work great on a motocross bike. A broader powerband is always a benefit. Even more so for the average user.
The Kawi and Sizuki engines in the picture originate from the time when they joined to design their first 250fs in the 2010s. Suzuki kept that design, while Kawi developed it much further and the engines they have now are quite different.
Man, you are so wrong on this. That was the 2004/2005 model and they certainly didn't have electric start. That came in 2021 (on the 250) 2019 on the 450.
Stark and Triumph both announced in 2021. Stark has just started getting a few units out to customers and is ramping up, Triumph will have bikes to dealers in about four months.
It’s not a drastic difference.
Thanks for correction!
I confused rumours floating around with the actual announcement.
Uhh, you’re off by a bit there.
Kawasaki and Suzuki had a joint 250 project for 2004-2005. They also had joint production for a 65, 110, a 400 quad and a few other things.
Engine was designed by Suzuki, chassis by Kawi, manufacturing by Kawi.
Kawasaki kept developing the Suzuki designed engine in their own when they did their own aluminum frame for the bike in 2006. Suzuki was stuck with the old bike for 2006 and introduced a new engine and chassis for 2007.
Today, the KX250 engine is very different. Different bore and stroke, rocker arms, etc.
RM-Z250 is still the original bore and stroke that Yamaha introduced in 2001. Still on cam and buckets, etc.
The new Kawasaki 450 is just a green Honda but I don’t see anyone complaining about that… also didn’t see people complaining when these Japanese brands started copying what KTM does (electric start, hydraulic clutch, factory editions). Look at the Beta and look at the KTM, a lot of similarities between those two, yet people aren’t complaining. You people on here are unreal.
Pit Row
Okay, if you say so! Then it’s even worse… only Triumph with a borrowed design.
Ah alright! Thanks again for setting things right.
What your thoughts on the Triumph engine? What were your expectations/hopes?
Same overall chassis package for the downdraft intake, but with a very different valve train concept.
I don't understand what some of you were expecting. In a time where shootouts basically say, pick your favorite color and that's the best bike for you, what did you expect triumph to do?
They basically had 2 options, build a bike based on things they liked about other manufacturers, or try and re-invent the wheel and have the potential for a massive flop (Cannondale).
Of course, RC and Triumph are going to call it revolutionary and hype it up, you expect them to come out and say "Yup, it's another dirt bike, nothing really going to stand out about it, we hope you like the color, or you're really into having the first of a new model, or the triumph brand means something to you so you want to buy it."
Yup didnt even think about direct injection, thats a pretty obvious one that hasnt been done yet that is definitely coming down the pipeline.
Direct Injection in gasoline engines is used for fuel efficiency and emissions, not necessarily for maximum power output. It’s hard to get a good atomization at high rpms. In racing direct injection is only used when efficiency is most important like in F1 or LeMans. Also, the added complexity with the high pressure pump and all wouldn’t be worth the effort for a motocross bike.
The engine & frame that has been shown so far looks good, nothing new or surprising but nothing bad either.
Exciting times for Triumph with the upcoming 400 single road bike also.
I see Harley are doing a single cylinder road bike as well, perhaps they should get an MX bike designed , to compete with Triumph
I've always enjoyed Triumphs street bikes and their creativity.
I was expecting a lot from their MX bike, especially after hearing them say it would have its "own unique personality".
Maybe it'll be a great bike, but from what we've seen, as far as "personality" goes, I'm really disappointed.
What's the team actually going to be called?
just "Triumph Racing"? until they get or need a title sponsor?
Most likely going to be named Monster Energy Triumph Racing.
I wonder if they could get the NOS energy drink on board, that would be a cool sponsor logo, what about full throttle, seems like a no brainer for promotion in mx.
You think so? I haven't heard title sponsor names yet, but I know all those riders were part of Monster Energy at one point or another.
Post a reply to: Triumph September, maybe?