Stark Vargs (as in plural)

nwmx
Posts
224
Joined
8/18/2010
Location
Corona, CA US
8/2/2023 10:56am

Where’s that Brian dude at to come do damage control in here?

6
8/2/2023 11:09am
People can Race Alta's and have been.  Not Pro level racing but it can not run long enough anyway.  In NESC , You can run the...

People can Race Alta's and have been.  Not Pro level racing but it can not run long enough anyway.  In NESC , You can run the open and Vet classes on an Alta or Varg.  So for somebody that is  30 there are 2 classes  that I know you can run in.  Jday allows the Alta too. I would be that many local  organizations will allow it in similar classes.   You can run one in the Am AMA Arenacross races in the Age classes. And so on.  

The reason I asked if anybody watched the video was because  You or Mike had said you only read the part you could read for free. And had not said anything about watching a video.

 

 I would say that the sensors notify you that you are getting close to an overheating situation. And like a temp gage  on a car, the temp gage tells you you should stop  doing whatever is overheating the car. But do not stop the car for you.  So It allows you to get to a safe area to stop.  And that is what they were saying about the Varg. 

If the goal is to have fun, than who cares if you detune it to have more fun? Its still there if you decide more power will be more fun. Should they just sell  a bike limited to what they think is more fun? Thats the great thing with electric is how you can adjust the power.

 

 As far as why they did not have the setting to limit the bike and prevent overheating and or extend the range.  Perhaps the bikes started off in that setting and the testers were playing with the app and changed it?  That doesn't seem to sound crazy to me. 

 

When the bike or bikes " Overheated"  . What happened?  Did the rider ignore the warning of the temp getting high and keep riding. Or was the overheating  they talk about  , just the light or however the app communicates that the bike is getting too hot . And the rider stopped at that point?    What was required when a bike overheated? 

 

 So they pretty much said, that Unless You are a top pro level speed the bike is amazing . If you are a top pro level speed guy, its amazing  at the higher HP setting for 75% of a moto or lower the power output to 60ish and it can be amazing for the entire moto. 

 

So what where the items that broke that You guys were talking about?    

Maybe I'll try and translate that over the weekend if somebody doesn't before. I was trying to subscribe , but much of the stuff was not translating and then it would not take my payment. I probably did something wrong since it was in french and I only know a handful of french words. Thank You for posting the article. 

 It really doesn't sound like it said much bad about the bike. Definitely nothing that I can see that would be such a reason for Goldmembers celebration. 

RACING wrote:
OK, let's do this one more time... Mike originally posted a link to the video part of the test.  I was asked questions by #434 and...

OK, let's do this one more time...

Wink

Mike originally posted a link to the video part of the test. 

I was asked questions by #434 and replied "I don't know, I'd have to buy the magazine and read the full article".

The overheating put the bike in "safety mode" (15% of the power, from what I understand, just enough to go back to the pits) after three laps with the two fastest riders. 

Another one of the bikes was stopped with the engine cutting (unrelated to overheating). The Stark staff said it might be a problem with the connectors but was unable to fix it so it was out.

None of these were saved my the "magical Tortelli setting" which remains the interesting question: if you actually have a setting that allows a former pro to ride 40 minutes at 62hp without ant problem, why don't you use it for a press test with a major magazine? 

Ok so  I was questioning the way you got your info since You had never said anything about a video. Only that You would have to pay in order to read the  full article.  To me that implied, that You were able to read part of it. I thought you had said you only read the free part. But I looked quickly at your other posts and  can not find you saying that. WHen I went to that link, I only had a link to subscribe , and a few paragraphs in french that would not translate and  from the way You wrote Your posts it was leading me to believe that You had read whatever that preview was that I could not see, and that was the partial info you saw since you had not paid to read the full article.  

You finally say what caused one of the bikes to cut out.  So 1 bike had bad connector, and that is was unable to be fixed .  Your more recent post seems much less biased. At first pointing out issues and  leaving out the parts of them being great bikes and them still liking the bikes with the issues they had. It just makes you look biased and look like You are trying hard to paint the bikes  in a negative way. 

So with the bikes that  heat heat issues, They do not say what caused them??  Since there was a fast rider able to get at least one 25 minute run  in that pretty hot weather . Just that they happened. And they do not say what the riders had to do in order to ride the bikes again? 

I am wondering if it was a design flaw? the hot weather?Having been charged quickly just after another rider had ridden and they started out with a Hot motor and battery?      You could take a gas bike and  have a rider come in, fuel it up and switch riders and have it overheat on the next riders second lap.   

Since You state that If similar issue came up with a gas powered bike that You could fix them. I assumed that You would have have wondered what the causes and fixes were for the Varg.  Only knowing there was an issue and not the full info behind the issue  is not giving the full story.  Even factory Honda gives some type of reason  why one of their race bikes brake and DNF a moto. And Factory teams are super secretive, and fans always want to know what and why something broke. 

I am wondering if the conditions contributed , could that be avoided? and was it avoided by the rider who got the full battery run?  If it was something that was wrong with one of the bikes that had to be fixed .  I was just asking for more detail on the issues since they were the things You pointed out.  I love how you point out that the bike has too much power to hold onto in the higher settings, but then also complain that they would say that people turn the power down and have more fun. 

I'm giving you the chance to get deep into how crappy thes bikes are. I am surprised you do not want to give out every detail on the issues. Sorry to make you repeat a couple things. But I think You just don't know the answers to what I'm asking. I am sorry to upset you.      

7
8/2/2023 11:26am
mattyhamz2 wrote:

Anyone see the news story from the last few days of the guy that was locked inside of his Tesla because the battery died?

#434 wrote:

Haha, really!? I don’t think that‘s gonna be a problem with the Varg!

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Haha yup. Hot day, battery died and was locked inside. There was another story last year of another guy who’s battery had an issue and the...

Haha yup. Hot day, battery died and was locked inside. There was another story last year of another guy who’s battery had an issue and the car caught fire. Guy struggled to get out because he was locked inside as well. 

Tesla's have a regular 12 volt battery for a lot of that stuff.  And Getting locked inside a care is not an exclusive to Tesla's or electric cars.  Older cars with power locks could also lock you inside. Its not an Electric issue, it's a Tesla issue. More people drive into water and die each year. People always say , well what if your battery dies on electric cars.  How about if You normally drive more than half the range of an electric car, don't buy one. Drive a gas vehicle.  And with an electric car You can just fill it up at your house. No need to go out of the way and fuel up. So those people who run close to empty to avoid stopping at the gas station. All they have to do is plug in when they get home. 5 seconds instead of 10 minutes minimum. 

 

X   

1

The Shop

RACING
Posts
1726
Joined
6/9/2023
Location
Waddafeuque FR
8/2/2023 11:31am
Ok so  I was questioning the way you got your info since You had never said anything about a video. Only that You would have to...

Ok so  I was questioning the way you got your info since You had never said anything about a video. Only that You would have to pay in order to read the  full article.  To me that implied, that You were able to read part of it. I thought you had said you only read the free part. But I looked quickly at your other posts and  can not find you saying that. WHen I went to that link, I only had a link to subscribe , and a few paragraphs in french that would not translate and  from the way You wrote Your posts it was leading me to believe that You had read whatever that preview was that I could not see, and that was the partial info you saw since you had not paid to read the full article.  

You finally say what caused one of the bikes to cut out.  So 1 bike had bad connector, and that is was unable to be fixed .  Your more recent post seems much less biased. At first pointing out issues and  leaving out the parts of them being great bikes and them still liking the bikes with the issues they had. It just makes you look biased and look like You are trying hard to paint the bikes  in a negative way. 

So with the bikes that  heat heat issues, They do not say what caused them??  Since there was a fast rider able to get at least one 25 minute run  in that pretty hot weather . Just that they happened. And they do not say what the riders had to do in order to ride the bikes again? 

I am wondering if it was a design flaw? the hot weather?Having been charged quickly just after another rider had ridden and they started out with a Hot motor and battery?      You could take a gas bike and  have a rider come in, fuel it up and switch riders and have it overheat on the next riders second lap.   

Since You state that If similar issue came up with a gas powered bike that You could fix them. I assumed that You would have have wondered what the causes and fixes were for the Varg.  Only knowing there was an issue and not the full info behind the issue  is not giving the full story.  Even factory Honda gives some type of reason  why one of their race bikes brake and DNF a moto. And Factory teams are super secretive, and fans always want to know what and why something broke. 

I am wondering if the conditions contributed , could that be avoided? and was it avoided by the rider who got the full battery run?  If it was something that was wrong with one of the bikes that had to be fixed .  I was just asking for more detail on the issues since they were the things You pointed out.  I love how you point out that the bike has too much power to hold onto in the higher settings, but then also complain that they would say that people turn the power down and have more fun. 

I'm giving you the chance to get deep into how crappy thes bikes are. I am surprised you do not want to give out every detail on the issues. Sorry to make you repeat a couple things. But I think You just don't know the answers to what I'm asking. I am sorry to upset you.      

And I'm the one that's biased, lol... 

All I know is what the Moto Verte journalists said in their video and article which I explained the most clearly I could. After months of endless pro-Stark propaganda, it's hard not to notice the first real test faces mechanical problems on half the bikes they had. That's all. Maybe it was bad luck. Maybe it's a design flow. I don't know. Can't be any clearer.

And no, I don't say what caused one bike to cut out. I say what the Stark guys said, which is very different. When a factory engine explodes, it's almost everytime an "electronical problem"... I don't have a clue what happened to that bike. All I know is it stopped and was out.

 

2
8/2/2023 11:38am
nwmx wrote:

Where’s that Brian dude at to come do damage control in here?

He just moved across the country so I’m cutting him some slack right now

2
8/2/2023 11:46am Edited Date/Time 8/2/2023 11:56am
#434 wrote:

Haha, really!? I don’t think that‘s gonna be a problem with the Varg!

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Haha yup. Hot day, battery died and was locked inside. There was another story last year of another guy who’s battery had an issue and the...

Haha yup. Hot day, battery died and was locked inside. There was another story last year of another guy who’s battery had an issue and the car caught fire. Guy struggled to get out because he was locked inside as well. 

Tesla's have a regular 12 volt battery for a lot of that stuff.  And Getting locked inside a care is not an exclusive to Tesla's or...

Tesla's have a regular 12 volt battery for a lot of that stuff.  And Getting locked inside a care is not an exclusive to Tesla's or electric cars.  Older cars with power locks could also lock you inside. Its not an Electric issue, it's a Tesla issue. More people drive into water and die each year. People always say , well what if your battery dies on electric cars.  How about if You normally drive more than half the range of an electric car, don't buy one. Drive a gas vehicle.  And with an electric car You can just fill it up at your house. No need to go out of the way and fuel up. So those people who run close to empty to avoid stopping at the gas station. All they have to do is plug in when they get home. 5 seconds instead of 10 minutes minimum. 

 

X   

Teslas have both a pushbutton and mechanical door release lever. Dude just didn't know how to use his car.

TeslaPushbutton

TeslaDoor 1

7
early
Posts
9771
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
8/2/2023 11:52am
mattyhamz2 wrote:

Anyone see the news story from the last few days of the guy that was locked inside of his Tesla because the battery died?

#434 wrote:

Haha, really!? I don’t think that‘s gonna be a problem with the Varg!

mattyhamz2 wrote:
Haha yup. Hot day, battery died and was locked inside. There was another story last year of another guy who’s battery had an issue and the...

Haha yup. Hot day, battery died and was locked inside. There was another story last year of another guy who’s battery had an issue and the car caught fire. Guy struggled to get out because he was locked inside as well. 

My in-laws Lincoln Aviator has electronic door latches and it's one of the most unnerving things I've ever used. I had to explore further and found theres a small release cord you can pull to open the drivers door, but it seems that cord is only on the driver's doors. One of those "its been working for 100 years, don't F it up" scenarios.

1
prozach
Posts
1241
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Eureka, CA US
8/2/2023 11:57am
Goldmember wrote:

LOL

Most if not all of what is left over, ie any profit, comes from the goverment sanctioned carbon credits scam on taxpayers.

You are correct sir. Tesla only exist today because of the taxpayers tit that it continuously sucks off of. BUT,....you cannot convince the suckers into actually...

You are correct sir. Tesla only exist today because of the taxpayers tit that it continuously sucks off of. BUT,....you cannot convince the suckers into actually following the money or focusing on reality. They are too blind in "saving the planet" even though the vehicle is made of fossil fuels, has to have fossil fuels to power it and there are NO solutions to the afterlife of the failing battery systems.

As the famous Forrest Gump once stated, "stupid is as stupid does". 

Oil industry has been heavily subsidized forever. Still around $20b a year!  ICE car manufacturers had one of the largest tax payer bailouts ever during the 2008 recession.  Lots of industries survive of the tax payer...🤷‍♀️ Kinda disingenuous to call out just one. 

5
1
8/2/2023 12:13pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Haha yup. Hot day, battery died and was locked inside. There was another story last year of another guy who’s battery had an issue and the...

Haha yup. Hot day, battery died and was locked inside. There was another story last year of another guy who’s battery had an issue and the car caught fire. Guy struggled to get out because he was locked inside as well. 

Tesla's have a regular 12 volt battery for a lot of that stuff.  And Getting locked inside a care is not an exclusive to Tesla's or...

Tesla's have a regular 12 volt battery for a lot of that stuff.  And Getting locked inside a care is not an exclusive to Tesla's or electric cars.  Older cars with power locks could also lock you inside. Its not an Electric issue, it's a Tesla issue. More people drive into water and die each year. People always say , well what if your battery dies on electric cars.  How about if You normally drive more than half the range of an electric car, don't buy one. Drive a gas vehicle.  And with an electric car You can just fill it up at your house. No need to go out of the way and fuel up. So those people who run close to empty to avoid stopping at the gas station. All they have to do is plug in when they get home. 5 seconds instead of 10 minutes minimum. 

 

X   

Teslas have both a pushbutton and mechanical door release lever. Dude just didn't know how to use his car.

Teslas have both a pushbutton and mechanical door release lever. Dude just didn't know how to use his car.

TeslaPushbutton

TeslaDoor 1

Makes more sense. My sister locked herself inside a camper of mine and climbed out the emergency exit. People do strange stuff when they panic.  It sounded strange , I was thinking that would be a very overlooked thing.     

 

Details matter,  Thats why I'm wondering about the issues with the Vargs. Not because I do not believe there were issues. Just would like to know if they are real concerns or isolated events.

8/2/2023 12:43pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:

Anyone see the news story from the last few days of the guy that was locked inside of his Tesla because the battery died?

shit. if i end up locked inside my varg i will be so fcking upset. 

10
swordfish
Posts
1950
Joined
9/2/2021
Location
Somewhere , AB CA
8/2/2023 1:25pm
RACING wrote:
Oh, btw, that Benjamin Cobb guy from Stark says another interesting thing: "With the rules in place, being able to race MXGP will be long and...

Oh, btw, that Benjamin Cobb guy from Stark says another interesting thing: "With the rules in place, being able to race MXGP will be long and difficult. We're working with national federations, in France, Italy, Great Britain, so that people can buy our bike knowing the can go and race their championship."

So, for now, between "settings" and rules, it's the fastest playbike in the world, but not a race bike yet.

 

People can Race Alta's and have been.  Not Pro level racing but it can not run long enough anyway.  In NESC , You can run the...

People can Race Alta's and have been.  Not Pro level racing but it can not run long enough anyway.  In NESC , You can run the open and Vet classes on an Alta or Varg.  So for somebody that is  30 there are 2 classes  that I know you can run in.  Jday allows the Alta too. I would be that many local  organizations will allow it in similar classes.   You can run one in the Am AMA Arenacross races in the Age classes. And so on.  

The reason I asked if anybody watched the video was because  You or Mike had said you only read the part you could read for free. And had not said anything about watching a video.

 

 I would say that the sensors notify you that you are getting close to an overheating situation. And like a temp gage  on a car, the temp gage tells you you should stop  doing whatever is overheating the car. But do not stop the car for you.  So It allows you to get to a safe area to stop.  And that is what they were saying about the Varg. 

If the goal is to have fun, than who cares if you detune it to have more fun? Its still there if you decide more power will be more fun. Should they just sell  a bike limited to what they think is more fun? Thats the great thing with electric is how you can adjust the power.

 

 As far as why they did not have the setting to limit the bike and prevent overheating and or extend the range.  Perhaps the bikes started off in that setting and the testers were playing with the app and changed it?  That doesn't seem to sound crazy to me. 

 

When the bike or bikes " Overheated"  . What happened?  Did the rider ignore the warning of the temp getting high and keep riding. Or was the overheating  they talk about  , just the light or however the app communicates that the bike is getting too hot . And the rider stopped at that point?    What was required when a bike overheated? 

 

 So they pretty much said, that Unless You are a top pro level speed the bike is amazing . If you are a top pro level speed guy, its amazing  at the higher HP setting for 75% of a moto or lower the power output to 60ish and it can be amazing for the entire moto. 

 

So what where the items that broke that You guys were talking about?    

Maybe I'll try and translate that over the weekend if somebody doesn't before. I was trying to subscribe , but much of the stuff was not translating and then it would not take my payment. I probably did something wrong since it was in french and I only know a handful of french words. Thank You for posting the article. 

 It really doesn't sound like it said much bad about the bike. Definitely nothing that I can see that would be such a reason for Goldmembers celebration. 

If everyone of your posts wasn’t a novel I’d bet some of us would actually read them instead of going straight for the downvote button. 

12
2
8/2/2023 1:36pm
Ok so  I was questioning the way you got your info since You had never said anything about a video. Only that You would have to...

Ok so  I was questioning the way you got your info since You had never said anything about a video. Only that You would have to pay in order to read the  full article.  To me that implied, that You were able to read part of it. I thought you had said you only read the free part. But I looked quickly at your other posts and  can not find you saying that. WHen I went to that link, I only had a link to subscribe , and a few paragraphs in french that would not translate and  from the way You wrote Your posts it was leading me to believe that You had read whatever that preview was that I could not see, and that was the partial info you saw since you had not paid to read the full article.  

You finally say what caused one of the bikes to cut out.  So 1 bike had bad connector, and that is was unable to be fixed .  Your more recent post seems much less biased. At first pointing out issues and  leaving out the parts of them being great bikes and them still liking the bikes with the issues they had. It just makes you look biased and look like You are trying hard to paint the bikes  in a negative way. 

So with the bikes that  heat heat issues, They do not say what caused them??  Since there was a fast rider able to get at least one 25 minute run  in that pretty hot weather . Just that they happened. And they do not say what the riders had to do in order to ride the bikes again? 

I am wondering if it was a design flaw? the hot weather?Having been charged quickly just after another rider had ridden and they started out with a Hot motor and battery?      You could take a gas bike and  have a rider come in, fuel it up and switch riders and have it overheat on the next riders second lap.   

Since You state that If similar issue came up with a gas powered bike that You could fix them. I assumed that You would have have wondered what the causes and fixes were for the Varg.  Only knowing there was an issue and not the full info behind the issue  is not giving the full story.  Even factory Honda gives some type of reason  why one of their race bikes brake and DNF a moto. And Factory teams are super secretive, and fans always want to know what and why something broke. 

I am wondering if the conditions contributed , could that be avoided? and was it avoided by the rider who got the full battery run?  If it was something that was wrong with one of the bikes that had to be fixed .  I was just asking for more detail on the issues since they were the things You pointed out.  I love how you point out that the bike has too much power to hold onto in the higher settings, but then also complain that they would say that people turn the power down and have more fun. 

I'm giving you the chance to get deep into how crappy thes bikes are. I am surprised you do not want to give out every detail on the issues. Sorry to make you repeat a couple things. But I think You just don't know the answers to what I'm asking. I am sorry to upset you.      

RACING wrote:
And I'm the one that's biased, lol...  All I know is what the Moto Verte journalists said in their video and article which I explained the...

And I'm the one that's biased, lol... 

All I know is what the Moto Verte journalists said in their video and article which I explained the most clearly I could. After months of endless pro-Stark propaganda, it's hard not to notice the first real test faces mechanical problems on half the bikes they had. That's all. Maybe it was bad luck. Maybe it's a design flow. I don't know. Can't be any clearer.

And no, I don't say what caused one bike to cut out. I say what the Stark guys said, which is very different. When a factory engine explodes, it's almost everytime an "electronical problem"... I don't have a clue what happened to that bike. All I know is it stopped and was out.

 

Thank You.     I'll say that because You glossed over all of the positive parts in your first post, to make everything about the issues and leave out that the still thought all of the good things people pointed out were also true EVEN with the issues they ran into. Seemed biased to me.  That last summary seemed much less biased than Your first post.  I will admit I am biased towards giving people the benefit of the doubt when they are trying to do or create things that can change many people's lives in a positive way.  I know the potential of electric powered vehicles  could make for some amazing things in moto.  I realize that everything has its limits and an electric dirt bike is no different. If its going to work for the person buying it, who cares if it will not do things that those people do not need it to do? I am all for finding the limits and putting all the info out there positive and negative. As long as it is complete info. I think that knowing what lead to the issues is as important as hearing about the issues. Without the full story , it's more misleading that any claim Stark has made. 

I would want to know the same stuff if a test on any new device/thing I was interested enough in to read about. The only thing I am biased towards is getting the full story out. I do not care if it makes Stark look good or bad if it is the truth and the full story. If it was up to Stark to not let them know what caused the issues, I think that was a bad move by Stark. And they should have explained the cause and how they fixed the problem.  I think the cutting out and heat issues are potentially issues that could be problems, I'm just not ready to say the bike is useless because of the issues without knowing the full extent of what caused them, how they fixed them, and if they have a way to avoid them.  Depending on the cause and fix, it might not be an issue if you can do something to avoid it. 

I tend to think that would be a less biased response than celebrating and calling them a joke, and saying they were lying the their customers.

Thank You, again for taking the time to put as much info out there as You have.    

1
5
8/2/2023 1:49pm
RACING wrote:
Oh, btw, that Benjamin Cobb guy from Stark says another interesting thing: "With the rules in place, being able to race MXGP will be long and...

Oh, btw, that Benjamin Cobb guy from Stark says another interesting thing: "With the rules in place, being able to race MXGP will be long and difficult. We're working with national federations, in France, Italy, Great Britain, so that people can buy our bike knowing the can go and race their championship."

So, for now, between "settings" and rules, it's the fastest playbike in the world, but not a race bike yet.

 

People can Race Alta's and have been.  Not Pro level racing but it can not run long enough anyway.  In NESC , You can run the...

People can Race Alta's and have been.  Not Pro level racing but it can not run long enough anyway.  In NESC , You can run the open and Vet classes on an Alta or Varg.  So for somebody that is  30 there are 2 classes  that I know you can run in.  Jday allows the Alta too. I would be that many local  organizations will allow it in similar classes.   You can run one in the Am AMA Arenacross races in the Age classes. And so on.  

The reason I asked if anybody watched the video was because  You or Mike had said you only read the part you could read for free. And had not said anything about watching a video.

 

 I would say that the sensors notify you that you are getting close to an overheating situation. And like a temp gage  on a car, the temp gage tells you you should stop  doing whatever is overheating the car. But do not stop the car for you.  So It allows you to get to a safe area to stop.  And that is what they were saying about the Varg. 

If the goal is to have fun, than who cares if you detune it to have more fun? Its still there if you decide more power will be more fun. Should they just sell  a bike limited to what they think is more fun? Thats the great thing with electric is how you can adjust the power.

 

 As far as why they did not have the setting to limit the bike and prevent overheating and or extend the range.  Perhaps the bikes started off in that setting and the testers were playing with the app and changed it?  That doesn't seem to sound crazy to me. 

 

When the bike or bikes " Overheated"  . What happened?  Did the rider ignore the warning of the temp getting high and keep riding. Or was the overheating  they talk about  , just the light or however the app communicates that the bike is getting too hot . And the rider stopped at that point?    What was required when a bike overheated? 

 

 So they pretty much said, that Unless You are a top pro level speed the bike is amazing . If you are a top pro level speed guy, its amazing  at the higher HP setting for 75% of a moto or lower the power output to 60ish and it can be amazing for the entire moto. 

 

So what where the items that broke that You guys were talking about?    

Maybe I'll try and translate that over the weekend if somebody doesn't before. I was trying to subscribe , but much of the stuff was not translating and then it would not take my payment. I probably did something wrong since it was in french and I only know a handful of french words. Thank You for posting the article. 

 It really doesn't sound like it said much bad about the bike. Definitely nothing that I can see that would be such a reason for Goldmembers celebration. 

swordfish wrote:

If everyone of your posts wasn’t a novel I’d bet some of us would actually read them instead of going straight for the downvote button. 

I have a problem with condensing my thoughts.  And tend to try  be very clear so there is less misunderstanding of what I'm saying.  I know they are super long and I apologize  . Its funny that people go to a place to read stuff and do not want to read something because its too long. Yet a thread is 20+ pages long. I understand though  .And I guess I just need to make fewer points in my posts.

Funny thing is no matter what I post in electric stuff, I can almost always hit refresh and see the Thumbs down .  Even on a 2 sentence reply.   

1
7
swordfish
Posts
1950
Joined
9/2/2021
Location
Somewhere , AB CA
8/2/2023 1:57pm
People can Race Alta's and have been.  Not Pro level racing but it can not run long enough anyway.  In NESC , You can run the...

People can Race Alta's and have been.  Not Pro level racing but it can not run long enough anyway.  In NESC , You can run the open and Vet classes on an Alta or Varg.  So for somebody that is  30 there are 2 classes  that I know you can run in.  Jday allows the Alta too. I would be that many local  organizations will allow it in similar classes.   You can run one in the Am AMA Arenacross races in the Age classes. And so on.  

The reason I asked if anybody watched the video was because  You or Mike had said you only read the part you could read for free. And had not said anything about watching a video.

 

 I would say that the sensors notify you that you are getting close to an overheating situation. And like a temp gage  on a car, the temp gage tells you you should stop  doing whatever is overheating the car. But do not stop the car for you.  So It allows you to get to a safe area to stop.  And that is what they were saying about the Varg. 

If the goal is to have fun, than who cares if you detune it to have more fun? Its still there if you decide more power will be more fun. Should they just sell  a bike limited to what they think is more fun? Thats the great thing with electric is how you can adjust the power.

 

 As far as why they did not have the setting to limit the bike and prevent overheating and or extend the range.  Perhaps the bikes started off in that setting and the testers were playing with the app and changed it?  That doesn't seem to sound crazy to me. 

 

When the bike or bikes " Overheated"  . What happened?  Did the rider ignore the warning of the temp getting high and keep riding. Or was the overheating  they talk about  , just the light or however the app communicates that the bike is getting too hot . And the rider stopped at that point?    What was required when a bike overheated? 

 

 So they pretty much said, that Unless You are a top pro level speed the bike is amazing . If you are a top pro level speed guy, its amazing  at the higher HP setting for 75% of a moto or lower the power output to 60ish and it can be amazing for the entire moto. 

 

So what where the items that broke that You guys were talking about?    

Maybe I'll try and translate that over the weekend if somebody doesn't before. I was trying to subscribe , but much of the stuff was not translating and then it would not take my payment. I probably did something wrong since it was in french and I only know a handful of french words. Thank You for posting the article. 

 It really doesn't sound like it said much bad about the bike. Definitely nothing that I can see that would be such a reason for Goldmembers celebration. 

swordfish wrote:

If everyone of your posts wasn’t a novel I’d bet some of us would actually read them instead of going straight for the downvote button. 

I have a problem with condensing my thoughts.  And tend to try  be very clear so there is less misunderstanding of what I'm saying.  I know...

I have a problem with condensing my thoughts.  And tend to try  be very clear so there is less misunderstanding of what I'm saying.  I know they are super long and I apologize  . Its funny that people go to a place to read stuff and do not want to read something because its too long. Yet a thread is 20+ pages long. I understand though  .And I guess I just need to make fewer points in my posts.

Funny thing is no matter what I post in electric stuff, I can almost always hit refresh and see the Thumbs down .  Even on a 2 sentence reply.   

It’s ok. I’d read more of your comments if they were less wordy. 

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1
8/2/2023 3:55pm
swordfish wrote:

If everyone of your posts wasn’t a novel I’d bet some of us would actually read them instead of going straight for the downvote button. 

I have a problem with condensing my thoughts.  And tend to try  be very clear so there is less misunderstanding of what I'm saying.  I know...

I have a problem with condensing my thoughts.  And tend to try  be very clear so there is less misunderstanding of what I'm saying.  I know they are super long and I apologize  . Its funny that people go to a place to read stuff and do not want to read something because its too long. Yet a thread is 20+ pages long. I understand though  .And I guess I just need to make fewer points in my posts.

Funny thing is no matter what I post in electric stuff, I can almost always hit refresh and see the Thumbs down .  Even on a 2 sentence reply.   

swordfish wrote:

It’s ok. I’d read more of your comments if they were less wordy. 

Thank you for the constructive  input.   I need to stop spending so much time writing anyway.  I was thinking of just making a Youtube channel for my longer opinions and covering some day to day shop stuff, and local race stuff like my friend and I used to do on a podcast then FB  .  And try harder to keep things short on here . I think a lot of context is lost when I write stuff VS saying it anyway.  

1
8/2/2023 4:33pm
Ok so  I was questioning the way you got your info since You had never said anything about a video. Only that You would have to...

Ok so  I was questioning the way you got your info since You had never said anything about a video. Only that You would have to pay in order to read the  full article.  To me that implied, that You were able to read part of it. I thought you had said you only read the free part. But I looked quickly at your other posts and  can not find you saying that. WHen I went to that link, I only had a link to subscribe , and a few paragraphs in french that would not translate and  from the way You wrote Your posts it was leading me to believe that You had read whatever that preview was that I could not see, and that was the partial info you saw since you had not paid to read the full article.  

You finally say what caused one of the bikes to cut out.  So 1 bike had bad connector, and that is was unable to be fixed .  Your more recent post seems much less biased. At first pointing out issues and  leaving out the parts of them being great bikes and them still liking the bikes with the issues they had. It just makes you look biased and look like You are trying hard to paint the bikes  in a negative way. 

So with the bikes that  heat heat issues, They do not say what caused them??  Since there was a fast rider able to get at least one 25 minute run  in that pretty hot weather . Just that they happened. And they do not say what the riders had to do in order to ride the bikes again? 

I am wondering if it was a design flaw? the hot weather?Having been charged quickly just after another rider had ridden and they started out with a Hot motor and battery?      You could take a gas bike and  have a rider come in, fuel it up and switch riders and have it overheat on the next riders second lap.   

Since You state that If similar issue came up with a gas powered bike that You could fix them. I assumed that You would have have wondered what the causes and fixes were for the Varg.  Only knowing there was an issue and not the full info behind the issue  is not giving the full story.  Even factory Honda gives some type of reason  why one of their race bikes brake and DNF a moto. And Factory teams are super secretive, and fans always want to know what and why something broke. 

I am wondering if the conditions contributed , could that be avoided? and was it avoided by the rider who got the full battery run?  If it was something that was wrong with one of the bikes that had to be fixed .  I was just asking for more detail on the issues since they were the things You pointed out.  I love how you point out that the bike has too much power to hold onto in the higher settings, but then also complain that they would say that people turn the power down and have more fun. 

I'm giving you the chance to get deep into how crappy thes bikes are. I am surprised you do not want to give out every detail on the issues. Sorry to make you repeat a couple things. But I think You just don't know the answers to what I'm asking. I am sorry to upset you.      

RACING wrote:
And I'm the one that's biased, lol...  All I know is what the Moto Verte journalists said in their video and article which I explained the...

And I'm the one that's biased, lol... 

All I know is what the Moto Verte journalists said in their video and article which I explained the most clearly I could. After months of endless pro-Stark propaganda, it's hard not to notice the first real test faces mechanical problems on half the bikes they had. That's all. Maybe it was bad luck. Maybe it's a design flow. I don't know. Can't be any clearer.

And no, I don't say what caused one bike to cut out. I say what the Stark guys said, which is very different. When a factory engine explodes, it's almost everytime an "electronical problem"... I don't have a clue what happened to that bike. All I know is it stopped and was out.

 

Wait till there's more reviews from owners and moto mags, this may be a real issue or it may not.

1
8/3/2023 11:38am
RACING wrote:
Oh, btw, that Benjamin Cobb guy from Stark says another interesting thing: "With the rules in place, being able to race MXGP will be long and...

Oh, btw, that Benjamin Cobb guy from Stark says another interesting thing: "With the rules in place, being able to race MXGP will be long and difficult. We're working with national federations, in France, Italy, Great Britain, so that people can buy our bike knowing the can go and race their championship."

So, for now, between "settings" and rules, it's the fastest playbike in the world, but not a race bike yet.

 

People can Race Alta's and have been.  Not Pro level racing but it can not run long enough anyway.  In NESC , You can run the...

People can Race Alta's and have been.  Not Pro level racing but it can not run long enough anyway.  In NESC , You can run the open and Vet classes on an Alta or Varg.  So for somebody that is  30 there are 2 classes  that I know you can run in.  Jday allows the Alta too. I would be that many local  organizations will allow it in similar classes.   You can run one in the Am AMA Arenacross races in the Age classes. And so on.  

The reason I asked if anybody watched the video was because  You or Mike had said you only read the part you could read for free. And had not said anything about watching a video.

 

 I would say that the sensors notify you that you are getting close to an overheating situation. And like a temp gage  on a car, the temp gage tells you you should stop  doing whatever is overheating the car. But do not stop the car for you.  So It allows you to get to a safe area to stop.  And that is what they were saying about the Varg. 

If the goal is to have fun, than who cares if you detune it to have more fun? Its still there if you decide more power will be more fun. Should they just sell  a bike limited to what they think is more fun? Thats the great thing with electric is how you can adjust the power.

 

 As far as why they did not have the setting to limit the bike and prevent overheating and or extend the range.  Perhaps the bikes started off in that setting and the testers were playing with the app and changed it?  That doesn't seem to sound crazy to me. 

 

When the bike or bikes " Overheated"  . What happened?  Did the rider ignore the warning of the temp getting high and keep riding. Or was the overheating  they talk about  , just the light or however the app communicates that the bike is getting too hot . And the rider stopped at that point?    What was required when a bike overheated? 

 

 So they pretty much said, that Unless You are a top pro level speed the bike is amazing . If you are a top pro level speed guy, its amazing  at the higher HP setting for 75% of a moto or lower the power output to 60ish and it can be amazing for the entire moto. 

 

So what where the items that broke that You guys were talking about?    

Maybe I'll try and translate that over the weekend if somebody doesn't before. I was trying to subscribe , but much of the stuff was not translating and then it would not take my payment. I probably did something wrong since it was in french and I only know a handful of french words. Thank You for posting the article. 

 It really doesn't sound like it said much bad about the bike. Definitely nothing that I can see that would be such a reason for Goldmembers celebration. 

swordfish wrote:

If everyone of your posts wasn’t a novel I’d bet some of us would actually read them instead of going straight for the downvote button. 

He is the ONLY one on Vital I scroll right past his posts without reading - should be banded to a maximum of 5 sentences.

3
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Beagle
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8/3/2023 2:42pm

Just wanted to give you a hand translating the main points from moto verte review (thanks for posting it).

I don't want to spend too much time for complete translation and I'm lacking the technical vocabulary (sorry I'm a track bike guy, no off-road... yet).

So here goes:

The Varg feels very nimble and comes with high quality components (foot rest, brake pedal, swingarm...)

Strange feeling for the first jumps, no clutch, no gears, no noise etc... but you understand quite fast how to ride it. Everything is done modulating the throttle, the bike is perfectly balanced.

Heavier than 450 however it is much easier to handle and no fear of stalling it in hairpins. They did not spend much time on bike with thumb brake cause they wanted to stay with something they're used to (but Tortelli says it offers more control).

Can a Stark Varg rival with a 450? Yes ! They were riding a 450YZF for comparison and the Stark is on par power-wise (in 60 HP mode) and chassis-wise. It pulls really hard and continuously (no dip in the power curve, no downtime shifting). Holeshot every time (without any holeshot device), even switching riders. Careful not to open too much, no clutch, all control is in your right wrist. Extremely good rear grip. Even though it's heavier (8 kg) it's surprisingly easier to handle than 450, front wheel goes wherever you want effortlessly. Feels also light during the jumps, no inertia.

Does it handle better than 250 (4 strokes)? Yes! The chassis is very precise, front wheel feels very light even compared to 250FC. The 250 feels heavier in the turns, engine inertia is pushing you in the turns, the 250 feels more clumsy/cumbersome. On the other hand the Varg feels more like a 2 strokes, turns on a dime, you can go for the inside line. Even with comparable power (48 HP mode) the Varg feels more punchy, more grunt when you open wide. No need to compare with a 350, the Varg has better handling and way more power.

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1
8/3/2023 3:07pm
Beagle wrote:
Just wanted to give you a hand translating the main points from moto verte review (thanks for posting it). I don't want to spend too much...

Just wanted to give you a hand translating the main points from moto verte review (thanks for posting it).

I don't want to spend too much time for complete translation and I'm lacking the technical vocabulary (sorry I'm a track bike guy, no off-road... yet).

So here goes:

The Varg feels very nimble and comes with high quality components (foot rest, brake pedal, swingarm...)

Strange feeling for the first jumps, no clutch, no gears, no noise etc... but you understand quite fast how to ride it. Everything is done modulating the throttle, the bike is perfectly balanced.

Heavier than 450 however it is much easier to handle and no fear of stalling it in hairpins. They did not spend much time on bike with thumb brake cause they wanted to stay with something they're used to (but Tortelli says it offers more control).

Can a Stark Varg rival with a 450? Yes ! They were riding a 450YZF for comparison and the Stark is on par power-wise (in 60 HP mode) and chassis-wise. It pulls really hard and continuously (no dip in the power curve, no downtime shifting). Holeshot every time (without any holeshot device), even switching riders. Careful not to open too much, no clutch, all control is in your right wrist. Extremely good rear grip. Even though it's heavier (8 kg) it's surprisingly easier to handle than 450, front wheel goes wherever you want effortlessly. Feels also light during the jumps, no inertia.

Does it handle better than 250 (4 strokes)? Yes! The chassis is very precise, front wheel feels very light even compared to 250FC. The 250 feels heavier in the turns, engine inertia is pushing you in the turns, the 250 feels more clumsy/cumbersome. On the other hand the Varg feels more like a 2 strokes, turns on a dime, you can go for the inside line. Even with comparable power (48 HP mode) the Varg feels more punchy, more grunt when you open wide. No need to compare with a 350, the Varg has better handling and way more power.

Thank You for doing this!!! Did they get into the issues any deeper than have already been described on here by others?  If so could You share what they said? 

 Thank You  again for taking the time to translate, I think hearing about any issues that came up, along with how to avoid and or what was needed to fix them would be interesting and helpful info for people unsure if they should take delivery of theirs.  They  could better understand if it might be a problem for them, with their intended use.

It's awesome to hear a direct comparison by  a magazine many have said are known for honest testing. 

Beagle
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8/3/2023 3:11pm

Suspensions are great, they had 4 bikes (including one with thumb brake) so 3 bikes each with a different suspension setting, they were perfectly adapted to different riding levels (faster guys liking harder setting better and so on). The bike reactions are very sane/healthy, nothing weird or unexpected, it reacts as it's supposed to. Whenever you land short it's progressive and takes it efficiently and again it tracks really well (not sure if tracking is correct, meaning rear grip is awesome).

Track time? It was 35 °C with little wind, bone dry track, 60 HP mode, on this track their pro rider could ride 26 min at full power before low power setting kicks in at 16% battery left. The regional league rider (level comparable to most users) could ride full power for 39 min. Charging from 0 to 100% takes 1h40 (220 V).

Would it be possible to compete in regional league (in France)? Yes provided the track is equiped with electrical plugs. French federation is currently working on regulations to allow electric motorcycles to compete, probably in mx1 (open). Typical race day is 2 15 min practices with some time to recharge in between, then bigger break enough for full charge before first race 20 min + 1 lap it's ok, then pause for at least 1h30 and second 20 min + 1 lap race it's gonna be fine.

For National or Elite it would not be possible 25 min + 1 or 2 laps, respectively, it would mean last lap (or 2) at reduced power.

Did you encounter any issues during testing? Yes, with such heat (35 °C) the bike went to safety mode after 3 laps, it happened for both pro riders, not the other one. Also one bike turned off unexpectedly, Stark was not able to pinpoint the issue on site.

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Beagle
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8/3/2023 3:25pm

Let's go on with what the Stark marketing guy has to say, .

Stark marketing guy : the objective was to produce a bike that was better or at least on par with the best ICE bikes. We want to have a bike that is accessible for everyone (adjustable power) and can also compete at the highest level. Right now for MXGP regulation wise it's difficult but we want the average Joe to be able to compete in his national championship, in particular we are working with the French, British and Italian federations [btw it's not in MV article but the Varg already has one podium in french female championship].

So you have any explanation about the issues suffered during the test? [Sorry I don't really understand what he says, it's a mess so no point to translate it although he did state that Tortelli can ride 30 min full power (62 HP, 84% regen) so we'll have to wait for some Tortelli wildcard somewhere sometime ti see that]

 

3
Beagle
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8/3/2023 3:37pm

Let's wrap this up with what the reader/pro rider invited to the test had to say (competes in National, on a CRF 450 2023).

It was a great surprise, I expected it to work well but not like that. It's easy to adapt and ride it, the engine just pulls like crazy! Obviously the downside was the heating issue after 3 laps. Once they get that sorted the Varg will be unbeatable. Power and chassis wise I can do things more easily than with my own bike (CRF 450). It handles great and you can play with it, even during the jumps. In the turns you can put it left, right, cut corners, it's really surprising, even more so when you notice its weight taking it off the stand. To whip it in the jumps without any inertia you need to anticipate, feels like a big mountain bike. Great suspensions and the ability to change power, engine braking and so on with your phone is awesome.

5
8/3/2023 5:25pm
Beagle wrote:
Let's wrap this up with what the reader/pro rider invited to the test had to say (competes in National, on a CRF 450 2023). It was...

Let's wrap this up with what the reader/pro rider invited to the test had to say (competes in National, on a CRF 450 2023).

It was a great surprise, I expected it to work well but not like that. It's easy to adapt and ride it, the engine just pulls like crazy! Obviously the downside was the heating issue after 3 laps. Once they get that sorted the Varg will be unbeatable. Power and chassis wise I can do things more easily than with my own bike (CRF 450). It handles great and you can play with it, even during the jumps. In the turns you can put it left, right, cut corners, it's really surprising, even more so when you notice its weight taking it off the stand. To whip it in the jumps without any inertia you need to anticipate, feels like a big mountain bike. Great suspensions and the ability to change power, engine braking and so on with your phone is awesome.

Thank You again for taking the time to do this for everybody. 

That is pretty impressive for the Pro rider to say what he said.  With the big deal that was made by the other guy that read the article over the issues, I thought there would be more mention of them to warrant such a response from them.  I guess even the doubters know how good the Varg can be , so that was why they got so excited over something hardly covered. 

8/3/2023 5:42pm
Beagle wrote:
Let's wrap this up with what the reader/pro rider invited to the test had to say (competes in National, on a CRF 450 2023). It was...

Let's wrap this up with what the reader/pro rider invited to the test had to say (competes in National, on a CRF 450 2023).

It was a great surprise, I expected it to work well but not like that. It's easy to adapt and ride it, the engine just pulls like crazy! Obviously the downside was the heating issue after 3 laps. Once they get that sorted the Varg will be unbeatable. Power and chassis wise I can do things more easily than with my own bike (CRF 450). It handles great and you can play with it, even during the jumps. In the turns you can put it left, right, cut corners, it's really surprising, even more so when you notice its weight taking it off the stand. To whip it in the jumps without any inertia you need to anticipate, feels like a big mountain bike. Great suspensions and the ability to change power, engine braking and so on with your phone is awesome.

The battery is air cooled, the motor/inverter is water cooled.

Does the article mention if the heat issue with the battery or if it was with the motor/inverter?

1
8/3/2023 5:46pm
Beagle wrote:
Let's go on with what the Stark marketing guy has to say, . Stark marketing guy : the objective was to produce a bike that was...

Let's go on with what the Stark marketing guy has to say, .

Stark marketing guy : the objective was to produce a bike that was better or at least on par with the best ICE bikes. We want to have a bike that is accessible for everyone (adjustable power) and can also compete at the highest level. Right now for MXGP regulation wise it's difficult but we want the average Joe to be able to compete in his national championship, in particular we are working with the French, British and Italian federations [btw it's not in MV article but the Varg already has one podium in french female championship].

So you have any explanation about the issues suffered during the test? [Sorry I don't really understand what he says, it's a mess so no point to translate it although he did state that Tortelli can ride 30 min full power (62 HP, 84% regen) so we'll have to wait for some Tortelli wildcard somewhere sometime ti see that]

 

Getting a longer runtime might end up being a new skill that needs to be learned to replace  some of the things You do not need to do on an electric MX bike.  If You want to ride one, and ride longer . Perhaps Tortelli is the part of the setting that can not be duplicated with a new to electric rider.

The regen braking might be a part of extending the runtime that has to be learned. 

I'm looking forward to seeing more people ride them and see what they say. 

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Beagle
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8/4/2023 12:00am

Sorry there are no details about the heat issue from the riders (just unintelligible answer from Stark), it's literally just the last paragraph where they mention that the 2 faster guys (pro level) had their bike defaulting to safety mode after 3 laps while the 3rd rider (regional league so maybe corresponds to good level amateur?) did not have any issue. Plus one bike turned off unexpectedly and could not restart.

So from this review it's not possible to know if it's a quality control issue, how common it is, if it's software or hardware related, easy to fix or not.

My take from this review is that riders from different levels from MV came out much impressed with the bike, very easy to ride and combining 450 power (when set in 60 HP mode) with excellent handling (much better than 450 and even better than a 250). They highlight the performance of the motor with excellent grunt and traction (holeshot every time). Basically what all riders that tried it have already said. They did have some technical issues and say that for France this bike could be well suited for competition at regional league not in elite category due to battery limitations (although Stark says it should not be an issue).

The pro guy is convinced that once heat issues get sorted nothing will be able to compete with the Stark, I guess we will see soon enough Starks competing in various national championships.

That being said, they also state that they got 40 min riding without any issue (even on a 35 °C day) for rider more representative of most users.

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#434
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8/4/2023 1:19am

Thanks Beagle!

djr
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8/4/2023 1:42am

I think the best & fairest test for a stark would be for someone to test one for several days , rather than just one day.

It's new tech, it could play up on the first day, then be fine after that. 

Or it could play up every day, which is not what you want

Best of all would be for someone to ride for a few months and see how the battery etc. holds out.

It is a bit concerning that the stark is said to have gone into safety mode after 3 laps with the pro riders , and 1 bike stopped altogether. 

You would think that the bikes provided by stark for these tests would have been checked over & tested  to be 100% reliable ( even built to a better spec than production bikes) , with so  much depending on getting some good publicity from one of the first proper unbiased tests

To a lot of potential buyers it won't matter how powerful or good handling the bike is, if there are concerns over reliability, when reliability and less maintenance is one area where an electric bike should be much better than a conventional bike .

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