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No no not 2 strokes (in a perfect world yes)
the current 250F bikes are better and faster than the 250 smokers ever were.. it seems 450 is too much indoors, what if we had the premiere class back to 250 and the manufacturers started making 125 4 strokes as the “lites” or whatever you wanna call that class?
I miss the days when not everyone could jump everything and getting sections perfect was more important..
The 4 strokes where a bait and switch by the EPA to begin with. Can you imagine an outdoor national with all E bikes. Why not force NASCAR to go electric?
Everyone can jump everything? You must not have been to a race live or something. Many tracks not everyone can jump everything, especially in the 250 class.
Just look at Redbud last weekend alone. Not even all the 450 guys were jumping the leap.
125 four strokes on an outdoor track, would be like watching your grass grow.
A full race 125 4 stroke would cost a fortune to build and maintain. That’s the problem with 250 4 strokes. They are great race bikes but at the pro level way too expensive. 250 2-strokes should be allowed to race with 250 4 strokes at the nationals.
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Maybe 175s and 350s?
Totally agree that current bikes are way faster than the “equal” bikes they replaced, and there’s nothing at the races today anything like the 125 class. JMO, the two classes should have about 35hp and 50hp, and something like an RPM limit to keep longevity decent.
Small displacement 4 strokes aren't cost effective in a performance environment.
The best chance to slow down the sport is with slower electric bikes like a rc 17.5 class.
e.g. CRF150R
It's a false sense of security, what makes anyone think everyone would suddenly be safer and at a lower risk if displacement was less, tracks and obstacles would simply become more technical and consequently more dangerous. Is a 250 really that much safer than a 450?
Nascar eletric
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I think a more logical approach would be to have the lites class be 125cc two stroke and the 250 class be 250f's. Listening to PULPmx over the years some pros have proposed similar sentiments in terms of bike displacement. Not that I am a die hard two stroke guy, but having a 125cc two stroke pro class would not only make things cheaper for factory teams, but also privateers. I see more and more 125cc two strokes at the practice tracks not exclusively being ridden by young guns, but by vets and some ex pros. We have a total of (6) manufacturers that make a competitive 125cc two stroke (Yamaha, Fantic, GasGas, KTM, Husqvarna, TM) so the excuse that there aren't enough manufacturers making them is not valid. I could see local racing bumping up as well if 125's were brought back at the pro level. Cheap bikes to race and maintain, plus doesn't take a rocket scientist or a mortgage to do a top end rebuild.
Are the current 250F better than a 250 2stroke, if they were allowed to ride 250 2-strokes in the 250 class everyone would be on one. The only reason they are banned is because thats not what the AMA wants.
The 250 four strokes are still overwhelmingly favoured over the two strokes in international Pro/Am series where they race head to head.
Even, perhaps, sacrificing a little peak power, the four strokes other benefits outweigh any disadvantages.
The AMA are not the 'one' that is maintaining the Handicap Class rules. Go ahead, contact them, and they will refer you to MX Sports.
It's down to DC - in the Outdoors - and, I'd think, Feld in SX.
DC could change the rules in an instant - and probably Feld would follow, especially with the integration of Outdoors and SX into SMX. But that's only if He and Feld ignored the manufacturers 'insistence' on retaining the Handicap Class rules. And that ain't happening anytime soon.
Same as dropping 250s and 450s, for 125s and 250s - it's not going to happen. Luongo, with KTM backing, tried to force a 350 limit, years ago. And, the Japanese manufacturers said Not effing likely. Around the same time, well earlier, 2009 / 2010 I think, Luongo / FIM put equivalency into MX2 rules - that ' disappeared ' within a couple of months, before the next season. Though, equivalency has remained in EMX250.
As to current 125 Manufacturers. Well, there's Yamaha, with the FanYam offshoot, The KTM Group - that's 3 'brands', Not 3 Manufacturers - and TM. Sherco and Beta make 125s - Enduro bikes, but they could do MXers if they perceived a demand for them. Rieju don't appear to have continued with the Spanish era Gas Gas 125 engines.
Just a note, concerning Fantic : I recently read an interview in Enduro21 with David Guarneri, former MXGP rider, Enduro Rider and now chief tester at Fantic. He said that the Minarelli made 300cc EFI, Electric Start , Electric Powervalve 300cc engine'd bike - still using the Yamaha chassis - is supposed to be announced / shown as a 2024 model in the next few months.
Make 250 2T eligible in 250 class and limit modification to 250 4t”s to keep cost down for privateers… leave 450 class alone, it’s the new affordable/ economy class….
One jump a year doesn’t count.
See the AMA displacement rule........you will find your answer.
In a perfect world we would go back to 2-strokes. But sadly, the powers that be are going to keep running this sport into the ground and making the sport more and more unaffordable.
They had it perfect to begin with when it was 125/250. Just go back to that and we're perfect. Or even real old school 125/250/open
Run whatever stroke you want just has to be limited to those displacements.
Pit Row
I love 2 strokes, but that ship has sailed for big time MX. I actually laughed at the thought of a 125 four stroke...can you even fathom the cost of racing one of those, let alone the snooze factor. Haters can hate, but the 250F is pretty great all around.
DC is a career politician beholden to his deep state masters. None of this will change.
The best part is this sentiment is unanimously agreed with... but... NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE BECUASE THOSE IN CHARGE HAVE BEEN SUCKING THE TEET OF THE MANUFACTURERS FOR YEARS.
250 (any type) Class and Open Class is the answer outdoors.
Indoors needs more limitation imo becuase the 250s run just as fast (or faster) lap times, but it would just be a headache to make any real change there.
At this point the sad reality is we are in a holding pattern until electrics take over. A separate group of folks would need to start their own series with better rules and competitive pay to give people what they want for ICE racing. I don't even have a problem with electrics other than a full gate of them would just seem boring to me.
Allow 300 2T's to go up against 250 four strokes...
Go back and watch supercross this past season. There were many rhythms only your top 3 or so guys were able to hit consistently at different races.
Why don’t they all race old Polini’s and Cobra 50’s and everyone has to start backwards! Halfway through the race they should stop and mechanics should have to perform an engine swap. While engines are being swapped riders should have to compete in a CrossFit competition and should shotgun and venti iced black coffee from Starbucks and then finish the last half of the race blindfolded.
The direction some people want to move this sport and what they recommend is ridiculous and need to touch grass.
need a max stroke and rpm limit on the 250/lites class for reliability's sake. make it more equal. or maybe minimum main bearing width/size. something like that.
The 250 is great for average riders and the top riders look perfect on a 450. I don’t see the problem.
You make some great points. Seems these days the bikes are so good everybody is just sending it and ending up on the coach.
I would argue that’s a skills / balls thing over having the power to do it..
Where is the evidence that 'we are in a holding pattern until electrics take over'?
150 open cc = lites class and 250 open cc = premier division. That is enough umph considering where the technology and chassis/suspension is in the current state. Stop the bleeding.
Post a reply to: Could we go back to 125’s and 250’s?