Was Roczens failure to get the RMZ to fire enough?

I'm sure I saw this was thrown out there in a thread or from a media outlet a while ago too, when Ken gave HEP the nod over Club or his 'privateer' Kawi's, but it certainly wasn't from ML/Lewis.

Suzuki just cancelled any and all changes to the 24 and beyond models this morning, because KR just got 2nd on this one.

Was reading through the rules.  From what I could see nothing to stop them adding e-start but they can’t use different cases so unless the RMZ has the e-start housing in the casting then they have nowhere to go.

You just wanted to see ML quote you, didn’t you? 

Better add Yamaha to the pile too. Marchbanks had a fantastic day ruined when the Blue bike had to be pitted for an issue. To me, Kenny's attendance made the race more interesting. Guess if you can get a  second overall at the Premier series in the US, it must be at least a decent ride. Other than the Honda, lots of folks may need to "Jettison" that electric start in hopes of doing better.....

Are you sure you're not confusing when he was on Honda and tested using the kickstart vs. electric start?

https://motocrossactionmag.com/ken-roczen-ditches-his-electric-start-at…

Ultimately, the kickstarter changed nothing in the outcome of the day. Kenny wouldn't have gotten the overall win even if he didn't tip over as he was already in 2nd. He got 2nd overall! Is the kickstart a disadvantage in these situations? Absolutely. Does this singular incident wake Suzuki up and make them dive in head first into developing a new MX bike? Nope.

Surprised Kenny wasnt rocking the bike back and forth more when it didnt fall into neutral the first time.

Being 'Kickstart Kenny" was all fun and games until it cost him some positions. He should've taken the kickstarter to the podium again lol.

Just joking, but that was brutal to watch. Hated to see it. I would take my chances with estart rather than a kickstarter, without a doubt (on a 450 at least.) Sure any bike can have problems but to me it's pretty obvious that having the button is better in the situation that Ken was in, 9 times out of 10.

I was at the race and was so glad that KR showed up though. He made it very exciting and it was cool how much the crowd was behind him. He was sending that quad, huge. He's fun to watch. And it is just awesome to see him on a Suzuki. I'm glad there are a bunch of Suzukis on the track this year (unlike some years where there wasn't any in the field.) But it was a bummer when he couldn't get the bike re-fired.

I thought for sure they’d bust out the Thor Battle Box.

All joking aside...you're right. The "Kickstart Kenny" has been a monicker he's humourously used on his butt patch since he lined up for the first time on his new yellow ride...and it showed his confidence in his riding to overcome that design flaw of the Suzuki and the factory's refusal to come to the competitive party that the rest of the OEM's have. But, Kenny doesn't fall a lot...so it hasn't cost him, until now. 

It was indeed hard to watch, and imagine his frustration and embarassment as well. It was amazing that he never mentioned it (that I know of) in any post-race interview. 

It will be interesting to see if losing out on that small amount of points the first moto changes his seeding in the SMX standings. Same as if he would have went back out and finished the SX race where he jammed his knee. All of this could potentially cost tens of thousands of dollars in the SMX standings.

The bike will have e-start next year and it wont be because of this moment.

Wishful thinking...or a fact? These kinds of posts always confuse me. I mean...are you an "insider" or what?

It's been talked about by Keefer and Matthes. Matthes said it's probably going to have the E-Start for 2024 yesterday on his race review. 

Keefer said there is changes coming to the 2024 but no specifics on what. Matthes said it sounds like just the E-Start. 

I am not an insider, so it would infact be a rumor but it is a strong rumor that has been spoken by both Matthes and Keefer. Not an all new RMZ but basically the same bike with added estart for 2024. 

My own opinion is that it has to do with what Ken is requesting in order to re-sign and their talks with Ferrandis/attempting to lock down another high level rider.

They have had an estart RMZ450 engine since around 2017 it just never made it to production because of weight. The RMX has also been around for a long time with estart but that engine doesn't make enough power to compete at the top level. Seems development & R&D are still very lacking over there but they have enough incentive to put out an estart bike for now to keep the HEP guy happy. 

I have 0 idea if this is coming to the 250 too or only the 450. Id imagine the BarX guys are asking for it as well.

Even "just adding electric start" requires budget and employees to design, test, and produce new cases, electronics, etc. It is my understanding the lights have been off on the off-road side of the building for quite a while now. Maybe someone from the road side can go over and find whatever the last R&D employee out the door was working on? I have a hard time believing that will happen but I guess we'll see soon enough.

Anyone remember when back in 2017 Honda first offered E start on their new 450? KRoc elected to stick with Kickstart because he didn't like the feel of the engine with the added rotating mass due to the E start ring gear. He got hurt shortly after so We'll never know if that would have changed after a few rounds. I doubt he's even recommending to Suzuki that they add E start. He blamed being gassed as the reason he couldn't start the bike. I would plan on seeing the same old RM-Z for some time.

Adding an e-start? Sure. Designing a new RM-Z? I doubt that. I think Suzuki is all-in on developing their new electric powerplants and the RM-Z models will be phased out in the next 10 years. They won't bother to do anything with those models except cling to the "winningest brand in motocross history" marketing schemes and minor model updates. Maybe they'll prove me wrong. 

You could see he was totally gassed. He did not even have the energy to kick it, much less rock a 230 pound bike in the mud.

Funny we’re still talking about E start after the Suzuki did better than any KTM, Kawasaki or Yamaha on the overall. 

My insider contact told me Roczen was spotted in Japan at the Suzuki's HQ canteen this week. 

TBH he is the only one that could do that and that may help their brand in MX

They start just fine if you do things right. You have to put in in neutral and give it a big kick. So many riders try to start it in gear and give it half kicks. Then when they actually do it right it'll start in one or two kicks. In the early 00s, yes it was a nightmare. Hasn't been that way for a long time though.

People who are deceived don't realize they're deceived...because they're deceived.

Don't they modify the shift cams to lessen the chance of false neutrals. And harder to find neutral?

That worked a treat last Saturday.

Kenny just showed what happens to your race results IF you let the engine stop. Could it have stayed running with a recluse?

The only reason he didn't lose more positions is, all his caliber of riders are at home on the couch. Let's say you have 4 more guys running withing 4-5 seconds, now where does he land?

Kenny said the bike was stuck between two ruts, and he tried but could not rock the bike.

My CR500 hot starts with just a little half kick. A bike that's notoriously hard to start which is compounded if you don't know the cold starting ritual. 

I do say hot start because cold start is different.

Put e-start on it and raise the price $1000. It's would still be competitively priced. 

I raced many big bores in the past, 2 stroke and 4 stroke.  2 strokes are much easier to kickstart.  I lost a old man off-road class championship once because of a simple stall on my 2003 YZ450F.  I tried the fast start method, not the "what you should do drill".  Cost me about a minute of kicking, but more importantly it's the heart rate after kicking a minute.  Even when electric start takes 5-30 seconds, your getting a little break that my forearms appreciate.  I also went thru a period of RM-250s, and a RMZ450.  The RMZ was a great bike, but Suzuki lost me when they refused to update.  I'm not sure if they will wake up or fade away.  They could update basically one bike with a E-start, the RMZ250 could share almost everything with a 300-350cc machine.  450s will go the way of the 500s soon.  I think they already make more power than the bikes that went away because they made too much power.  But, it doesn't have a chance of happening.  

I'm not sure there would really be too much re-engineering to add electric start.  The RMX had electric start for a few years.  I'd think they could do some re-tooling and fairly "simple" changes to the production and achieve the desired product.  My point is, they aren't starting from scratch with this concept.

Well first you have to find neutral,  with no clutch lever its rocking the bike back and forth.  Then start it.  And then figure out how to get it moving with no stall.  Not an easy task as tall as the first gear is on these bikes.  Pretty lucky to get it going at all.