What killed the 500?

TeamGreen wrote:

The final nail in the coffin of Japanese 500s? It was a cop in Mexico...Baja, to be more specific, that drove the final nail. June, 03...

The final nail in the coffin of Japanese 500s?

It was a cop in Mexico...Baja, to be more specific, that drove the final nail.

June, 03, 1995.

Gunsdad wrote:

The AMA....no class, therefore no machines.

TeamGreen wrote:

The final nail in the coffin of Japanese 500s? It was a cop in Mexico...Baja, to be more specific, that drove the final nail. June, 03...

The final nail in the coffin of Japanese 500s?

It was a cop in Mexico...Baja, to be more specific, that drove the final nail.

June, 03, 1995.

7I3N wrote:

Of all the weird shit that has ever happened during races down there, that was by far the most tragic and the most senseless accident ever...

Of all the weird shit that has ever happened during races down there, that was by far the most tragic and the most senseless accident ever. I am convinced that if he was still around, Danny would still be the man to beat in the dez. He would be in his late 30's now. Not only could he use ALL of the power of a 500, he would keep the thing pinned for insane amounts of time. He rode that big KX like it was a 125.

Dropbear wrote:

Didn't Destry Abbott have to be pried off his KX500 to ride a 450? That what I heard anyway.

WhKnuckle wrote:

It's a chicken and egg argument. Yamaha and Suzuki didn't make a competitive open class bike, so they pushed to get the class eliminated. Honda and...

It's a chicken and egg argument. Yamaha and Suzuki didn't make a competitive open class bike, so they pushed to get the class eliminated. Honda and Kawasaki didn't make enough of a fuss because it cost money to race that class and they figured the fewer models they made, the more profit they made - so basically development of the 500s stopped in '93 or so. People don't buy bikes that the pros don't ride and that the factory doesn't update, so they just went away. There was never anything inherent in a 500 that was bad or unmanageable or any of that - many riders preferred them to 250s, others had the opposite point of view. But they were, and still are, very easy bikes to ride and as reliable as a rock.

It's exactly the same thing as the 250T/250F controversy - the manufacturers don't want to keep making 250Ts, so they don't want to see them raced in pro series' and they don't want to really update them very much, and they'll die off in the same way. It's not because they're bad bikes - in fact, a 250T is probably the best all-around motocross bike ever for the vast majority of riders - it's just because the factories are run by businessmen and not motorcycle enthusiasts (KTM aside). Businessmen say, "Why make two bikes for the same class? We'll reduce production expense by making only one, and we'll have the same number of customers. Two bikes for one class is crazy, shut that assembly line down right now." The racing series' gave the factories what they wanted, and the only ones to suffer were people who wanted to race a 250T because it was lighter, more powerful, more reliable, better handling, more developed, better sounding, better smelling and cheaper to ride. But who cares about any of that stuff?

WhKnuckle wrote:

It's a chicken and egg argument. Yamaha and Suzuki didn't make a competitive open class bike, so they pushed to get the class eliminated. Honda and...

It's a chicken and egg argument. Yamaha and Suzuki didn't make a competitive open class bike, so they pushed to get the class eliminated. Honda and Kawasaki didn't make enough of a fuss because it cost money to race that class and they figured the fewer models they made, the more profit they made - so basically development of the 500s stopped in '93 or so. People don't buy bikes that the pros don't ride and that the factory doesn't update, so they just went away. There was never anything inherent in a 500 that was bad or unmanageable or any of that - many riders preferred them to 250s, others had the opposite point of view. But they were, and still are, very easy bikes to ride and as reliable as a rock.

It's exactly the same thing as the 250T/250F controversy - the manufacturers don't want to keep making 250Ts, so they don't want to see them raced in pro series' and they don't want to really update them very much, and they'll die off in the same way. It's not because they're bad bikes - in fact, a 250T is probably the best all-around motocross bike ever for the vast majority of riders - it's just because the factories are run by businessmen and not motorcycle enthusiasts (KTM aside). Businessmen say, "Why make two bikes for the same class? We'll reduce production expense by making only one, and we'll have the same number of customers. Two bikes for one class is crazy, shut that assembly line down right now." The racing series' gave the factories what they wanted, and the only ones to suffer were people who wanted to race a 250T because it was lighter, more powerful, more reliable, better handling, more developed, better sounding, better smelling and cheaper to ride. But who cares about any of that stuff?

Lightning78 wrote:

Im looking for a 500 to ride for fun in the Dez and trails .....have to ask..... which in your guys opinon is a better macking...

Im looking for a 500 to ride for fun in the Dez and trails .....have to ask..... which in your guys opinon is a better macking in modern format ....the CR500 or the KX500?

Please assume this is without any AF conversions stock bike vs stock bike.

My dad had an 88 CR500 when I was younger and got to ride it a few times, that was some scary fun! I just want one in the stable to ride when I need the shit scared out of me.....500's are a blast if you have the skills to ride one.

Lightning78 wrote:

Im looking for a 500 to ride for fun in the Dez and trails .....have to ask..... which in your guys opinon is a better macking...

Im looking for a 500 to ride for fun in the Dez and trails .....have to ask..... which in your guys opinon is a better macking in modern format ....the CR500 or the KX500?

Please assume this is without any AF conversions stock bike vs stock bike.

My dad had an 88 CR500 when I was younger and got to ride it a few times, that was some scary fun! I just want one in the stable to ride when I need the shit scared out of me.....500's are a blast if you have the skills to ride one.

Craze wrote:

KX500 hands down

WhKnuckle wrote:

It's a chicken and egg argument. Yamaha and Suzuki didn't make a competitive open class bike, so they pushed to get the class eliminated. Honda and...

It's a chicken and egg argument. Yamaha and Suzuki didn't make a competitive open class bike, so they pushed to get the class eliminated. Honda and Kawasaki didn't make enough of a fuss because it cost money to race that class and they figured the fewer models they made, the more profit they made - so basically development of the 500s stopped in '93 or so. People don't buy bikes that the pros don't ride and that the factory doesn't update, so they just went away. There was never anything inherent in a 500 that was bad or unmanageable or any of that - many riders preferred them to 250s, others had the opposite point of view. But they were, and still are, very easy bikes to ride and as reliable as a rock.

It's exactly the same thing as the 250T/250F controversy - the manufacturers don't want to keep making 250Ts, so they don't want to see them raced in pro series' and they don't want to really update them very much, and they'll die off in the same way. It's not because they're bad bikes - in fact, a 250T is probably the best all-around motocross bike ever for the vast majority of riders - it's just because the factories are run by businessmen and not motorcycle enthusiasts (KTM aside). Businessmen say, "Why make two bikes for the same class? We'll reduce production expense by making only one, and we'll have the same number of customers. Two bikes for one class is crazy, shut that assembly line down right now." The racing series' gave the factories what they wanted, and the only ones to suffer were people who wanted to race a 250T because it was lighter, more powerful, more reliable, better handling, more developed, better sounding, better smelling and cheaper to ride. But who cares about any of that stuff?

WhipMeister wrote:

Too many options, not enough buyers.

WhipMeister wrote:

Too many options, not enough buyers.

yamathumb wrote:

Do you think they would sell 5000 of them the first year if a modern large bore Kx is produced? Assume electric start, counterbalance, and a...

Do you think they would sell 5000 of them the first year if a modern large bore Kx is produced? Assume electric start, counterbalance, and a msrp 1000.00 more than a 450. I do. I weigh 230lbs, a 250 and 300 two stroke are a bit strained on the low end for my fatass. 350 would probably be perfect, a 400 with manageable low end and comparable overrev to a 300(let's say they get 9000 rpm wound all the way out) could be set up to be pretty linear if the goal was 60 hp, and some overrev. The problem with 300s is the 72mm stroke. A bore stroke ratio more comparable to a current 250 would have a wider power spread. It'll never happen but, one can dream. Tomasini and Brc might get put out of business though. There is room for one manufacturer with a big bore. Hell, they could probably get 10k just for an engine kit that drops into the current chassis....