New bike day - Stark Varg has arrived!!!!

The real Sasquatch wrote:

What would you guys think of some type of electronic clutch. That did the same thing as far as disengaging the power ,etc.  But it would...

What would you guys think of some type of electronic clutch. That did the same thing as far as disengaging the power ,etc.  But it would be done via computer so that you wouldn't add the weight,oil and extra parts to the bike other than a lever and wire  from the lever. With Electric making all the torque at any RPM , you can do a lot with throttle control that is not possible on a Gas powered vehicle too.   

Adjustable in the App and could be on the bars using a lever or maybe something like a thumb throttle / or small trigger like lever on the left side so that a rear hand brake could also be an option. You could adjust how hard it was to pull too. Or how about like road bicycle shifters combine the brake lever and shifter. Combine the rear brake and   clutch . So you would kinda move the lever up and down for clutch and pull in for brake . Something like that, so that You can have the hand brake still.

I think the rear hand brake would be really handy for off road too. Less stuff to get grabbed by roots and rocks down low. And would allow you to be in any position on the bike and still hit the brake.   Being a taller rider I have trouble hitting the rear brake while   sometimes. Adjusting it is always a compromise if some direction.  

mog wrote:

From what I have read from ev owners it's simply unnecessary, the clutch is needed on a ice as it lacks any torque at low revs...

From what I have read from ev owners it's simply unnecessary, the clutch is needed on a ice as it lacks any torque at low revs , you manipulate the torque with the clutch , on ev you have enough torque that the throttle is enough 

Do you want to clutch a 80hp 938nm torque 110kg bike ? ....that's more torque  than a Harley I think ...

 

Natester551v wrote:

The idea that the clutch only acts to increase torque at low RPM is total bullshit; any decent enduro or hard enduro rider will tell you...

The idea that the clutch only acts to increase torque at low RPM is total bullshit; any decent enduro or hard enduro rider will tell you that it's a critical tool for technical riding.  So much so that every single world hard enduro guy completely rejects the Rekluse auto clutch.  There is plenty of hyperbole on both sides of the Stark issue already - no need to add to it with completely made up B.S.

The real Sasquatch wrote:

What would you guys think of some type of electronic clutch. That did the same thing as far as disengaging the power ,etc.  But it would...

What would you guys think of some type of electronic clutch. That did the same thing as far as disengaging the power ,etc.  But it would be done via computer so that you wouldn't add the weight,oil and extra parts to the bike other than a lever and wire  from the lever. With Electric making all the torque at any RPM , you can do a lot with throttle control that is not possible on a Gas powered vehicle too.   

Adjustable in the App and could be on the bars using a lever or maybe something like a thumb throttle / or small trigger like lever on the left side so that a rear hand brake could also be an option. You could adjust how hard it was to pull too. Or how about like road bicycle shifters combine the brake lever and shifter. Combine the rear brake and   clutch . So you would kinda move the lever up and down for clutch and pull in for brake . Something like that, so that You can have the hand brake still.

I think the rear hand brake would be really handy for off road too. Less stuff to get grabbed by roots and rocks down low. And would allow you to be in any position on the bike and still hit the brake.   Being a taller rider I have trouble hitting the rear brake while   sometimes. Adjusting it is always a compromise if some direction.  

mog wrote:

From what I have read from ev owners it's simply unnecessary, the clutch is needed on a ice as it lacks any torque at low revs...

From what I have read from ev owners it's simply unnecessary, the clutch is needed on a ice as it lacks any torque at low revs , you manipulate the torque with the clutch , on ev you have enough torque that the throttle is enough 

Do you want to clutch a 80hp 938nm torque 110kg bike ? ....that's more torque  than a Harley I think ...

 

Natester551v wrote:

The idea that the clutch only acts to increase torque at low RPM is total bullshit; any decent enduro or hard enduro rider will tell you...

The idea that the clutch only acts to increase torque at low RPM is total bullshit; any decent enduro or hard enduro rider will tell you that it's a critical tool for technical riding.  So much so that every single world hard enduro guy completely rejects the Rekluse auto clutch.  There is plenty of hyperbole on both sides of the Stark issue already - no need to add to it with completely made up B.S.

mog wrote:

A rekluse auto clutch in now way replicates more torque , in fact it does the exact opposite If you are in 3rd gear it may...

A rekluse auto clutch in now way replicates more torque , in fact it does the exact opposite

If you are in 3rd gear it may stop stalling but it won't loft the wheel to get over a log ,a stark.will easily do that at almost any speed from 1mph to 45mph 

 

It's not bs to say the clutch is used to manipulate torque ,it's the exact function of a clutch 

 

I appreciate the apology however 

theycallmeebryan wrote:

Those "demo" bikes that were floating around the country were non-functioning display bikes for display purposes. 

djr wrote:

This is why people are skeptical. Makes it sound like that Nikola electric truck company, where they had to roll the non-functioning truck down a hill...

This is why people are skeptical.

Makes it sound like that Nikola electric truck company, where they had to roll the non-functioning truck down a hill to film a video, after telling lies about the truck being working and ready to go.

Do Honda, KTM etc give dealers non-functioning demo bikes ?

The real Sasquatch wrote:

Honda and KTM are not brand new companies with brand new bikes trying to setup a dealer network.   I don't see an issue with a non...

Honda and KTM are not brand new companies with brand new bikes trying to setup a dealer network.   I don't see an issue with a non working display model.  No dealers around me let you test ride a bike before buying one anyway .  They had made it really clear it was not a working bike.  

As long as it feels to be taking , they are setting up a dealer network, training dealers  , building a manufacturing plant and figuring out a lot of the stuff in a much more public way than pretty much any other manufacturer. Then add on the Covid delays and it is not a surprise that they are not ontime.   

I think its better to be late and have a solid product , than ontime with a bike that has recalls or stop ride orders.  Very often Polaris will come out with a new model SXS and then have a stop ride order put out.  It is easier for me to say this since I am not waiting on one myself.  

djr wrote:

This is why people are skeptical. Makes it sound like that Nikola electric truck company, where they had to roll the non-functioning truck down a hill...

This is why people are skeptical.

Makes it sound like that Nikola electric truck company, where they had to roll the non-functioning truck down a hill to film a video, after telling lies about the truck being working and ready to go.

Do Honda, KTM etc give dealers non-functioning demo bikes ?

The real Sasquatch wrote:

Honda and KTM are not brand new companies with brand new bikes trying to setup a dealer network.   I don't see an issue with a non...

Honda and KTM are not brand new companies with brand new bikes trying to setup a dealer network.   I don't see an issue with a non working display model.  No dealers around me let you test ride a bike before buying one anyway .  They had made it really clear it was not a working bike.  

As long as it feels to be taking , they are setting up a dealer network, training dealers  , building a manufacturing plant and figuring out a lot of the stuff in a much more public way than pretty much any other manufacturer. Then add on the Covid delays and it is not a surprise that they are not ontime.   

I think its better to be late and have a solid product , than ontime with a bike that has recalls or stop ride orders.  Very often Polaris will come out with a new model SXS and then have a stop ride order put out.  It is easier for me to say this since I am not waiting on one myself.  

truck wrote:

They are doing a lot, but I truly wonder if they had been planning on being acquired by now or entered into partnership with a major...

They are doing a lot, but I truly wonder if they had been planning on being acquired by now or entered into partnership with a major manufacturer before they had to do some of this stuff. Those $100 deposits don't pay the bills and investors don't just keep throwing cash at you if you aren't producing. If this company doesn't exist in 6 months it shouldn't surprise anyone. 

As to why people are not raising the same concerns with triumph, it's apples and oranges. One is a new company generating zero revenue and the other generates enough revenue to develop a new mx bike five times over without succeeding and it still wouldn't bring the company down. They also don't have to do half the things you listed stark as having to do right now. They just get to build a bike. 

The real Sasquatch wrote:

Honda and KTM are not brand new companies with brand new bikes trying to setup a dealer network.   I don't see an issue with a non...

Honda and KTM are not brand new companies with brand new bikes trying to setup a dealer network.   I don't see an issue with a non working display model.  No dealers around me let you test ride a bike before buying one anyway .  They had made it really clear it was not a working bike.  

As long as it feels to be taking , they are setting up a dealer network, training dealers  , building a manufacturing plant and figuring out a lot of the stuff in a much more public way than pretty much any other manufacturer. Then add on the Covid delays and it is not a surprise that they are not ontime.   

I think its better to be late and have a solid product , than ontime with a bike that has recalls or stop ride orders.  Very often Polaris will come out with a new model SXS and then have a stop ride order put out.  It is easier for me to say this since I am not waiting on one myself.  

truck wrote:

They are doing a lot, but I truly wonder if they had been planning on being acquired by now or entered into partnership with a major...

They are doing a lot, but I truly wonder if they had been planning on being acquired by now or entered into partnership with a major manufacturer before they had to do some of this stuff. Those $100 deposits don't pay the bills and investors don't just keep throwing cash at you if you aren't producing. If this company doesn't exist in 6 months it shouldn't surprise anyone. 

As to why people are not raising the same concerns with triumph, it's apples and oranges. One is a new company generating zero revenue and the other generates enough revenue to develop a new mx bike five times over without succeeding and it still wouldn't bring the company down. They also don't have to do half the things you listed stark as having to do right now. They just get to build a bike. 

Josh422 wrote:

Pretty sure the company that owns Royal Enfield has invested pretty heavily into Stark Future? 

truck wrote:

They are doing a lot, but I truly wonder if they had been planning on being acquired by now or entered into partnership with a major...

They are doing a lot, but I truly wonder if they had been planning on being acquired by now or entered into partnership with a major manufacturer before they had to do some of this stuff. Those $100 deposits don't pay the bills and investors don't just keep throwing cash at you if you aren't producing. If this company doesn't exist in 6 months it shouldn't surprise anyone. 

As to why people are not raising the same concerns with triumph, it's apples and oranges. One is a new company generating zero revenue and the other generates enough revenue to develop a new mx bike five times over without succeeding and it still wouldn't bring the company down. They also don't have to do half the things you listed stark as having to do right now. They just get to build a bike. 

Josh422 wrote:

Pretty sure the company that owns Royal Enfield has invested pretty heavily into Stark Future? 

truck wrote:

Looks like they paid 50 million for 10% stake. No idea for far 50 million takes you but building from scratch I wouldn't think very far? 

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

I've been riding woods for 90% of my riding "career". 50 years or so? I don't think people understand how electric motors work. Yes I used...

I've been riding woods for 90% of my riding "career". 50 years or so?

I don't think people understand how electric motors work.

Yes I used a clutch plenty, but it was to get the engine at the proper point, or to keep from stalling. 

I don't see the need with an electric. 

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

I've been riding woods for 90% of my riding "career". 50 years or so? I don't think people understand how electric motors work. Yes I used...

I've been riding woods for 90% of my riding "career". 50 years or so?

I don't think people understand how electric motors work.

Yes I used a clutch plenty, but it was to get the engine at the proper point, or to keep from stalling. 

I don't see the need with an electric. 

The real Sasquatch wrote:

Yah I don't know if people understand that if you wanted an electric bike to , You could have it hit at 80HP right away like...

Yah I don't know if people understand that if you wanted an electric bike to , You could have it hit at 80HP right away like a light switch with all of its power.   The second you crack the throttle. I think that people will have to adjust how they ride. But like Bryan was saying you can do everything with throttle control. You do not need to slip the clutch to stop spinning, just let off the throttle and get back on as needed.  On an ICE bike you slip the clutch when you spin so that You can keep the RPM's up , and stay in the power. 

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

I've been riding woods for 90% of my riding "career". 50 years or so? I don't think people understand how electric motors work. Yes I used...

I've been riding woods for 90% of my riding "career". 50 years or so?

I don't think people understand how electric motors work.

Yes I used a clutch plenty, but it was to get the engine at the proper point, or to keep from stalling. 

I don't see the need with an electric. 

The real Sasquatch wrote:

Yah I don't know if people understand that if you wanted an electric bike to , You could have it hit at 80HP right away like...

Yah I don't know if people understand that if you wanted an electric bike to , You could have it hit at 80HP right away like a light switch with all of its power.   The second you crack the throttle. I think that people will have to adjust how they ride. But like Bryan was saying you can do everything with throttle control. You do not need to slip the clutch to stop spinning, just let off the throttle and get back on as needed.  On an ICE bike you slip the clutch when you spin so that You can keep the RPM's up , and stay in the power. 

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Granted, I spent the last 20 on a 500, so having to get the power in the sweet spot wasn't really a thing, it was mostly...

Granted, I spent the last 20 on a 500, so having to get the power in the sweet spot wasn't really a thing, it was mostly used to keep the damn thing from stalling. 

Ever start an 84 CR500? Takes it out of you depending on where you are.

mog wrote:

How are all the stark doubters ok with triumph ? No real bikes, no real pictures, no production line pictures, no display bikes , no date...

How are all the stark doubters ok with triumph ?

No real bikes, no real pictures, no production line pictures, no display bikes , no date for anything other than they say they will race in 24 , no deposit being taken, no information on weight, power or anything

Yet it's only stark that's in the limelight, which shows none of these things matter ,it's. Just because it's electric ...

 

Where are the threads on triumph ? I will wait ....

GrapeApe wrote:

Because Bobby Hewitt would never wear a turtleneck

 

Motocrossjunky wrote:

    Loic Bruni and Jorge Zaragoza seem to own a Stark and look really good on it. Don’t think they paid for it, so maybe...

 

 

Loic Bruni and Jorge Zaragoza seem to own a Stark and look really good on it. Don’t think they paid for it, so maybe that’s where some of those bikes go. Reason I think they own them is because they ride other tracks instead of the usual Stark track. 

38special wrote:

Triumph did not take people's money based on one set of specifications (specifically weight) and delivery dates, and then change them via carefully spun PR messages. ...

Triumph did not take people's money based on one set of specifications (specifically weight) and delivery dates, and then change them via carefully spun PR messages.  Triumph did not announce "we're in production and shipping bikes", and then 5-6 weeks later, only actually deliver 1 bike.

Triumph is behaving exactly as I'd expect a well established motorcycle manufacturer to behave.  They will show the bike when it's ready.

I am not against Stark or Customer #1, but I do raise an eyebrow to Stark's way of doing things so far.  They must assume we're all so stupid that we'll just take all the PR at face value and not take a step back and think for ourselves.

 

Natester551v wrote:

And with respect to the clutch I'd say that any top level motocrosser would laugh at the idea of having no clutch to modulate power (Chad...

And with respect to the clutch I'd say that any top level motocrosser would laugh at the idea of having no clutch to modulate power (Chad Reed and Eli Tomac come to mind).  It is absolutely true that the electric motor can deliver a much more linear (as in - straight line) power curve than an ICE engine but having to twist the throttle open or shut as the only means to control it is very limiting.  

And my apologies to mog for the overly harsh response - I could've been more articulate about it.  If Stark succeeds and begins to expand their lineup, they'll have to have a clutch option to reach certain riders.

motoman617 wrote:

How many bikes do they plan to ship in their first year? Have they said? How many bikes are shipping each week or month? How long...

How many bikes do they plan to ship in their first year? Have they said? How many bikes are shipping each week or month? How long does it take to build one bike?  If you go to their site to order one today it says Dec. 2024 delivery. That seems like an awful long delivery time if they are already building and shipping bikes. Not trying to be negative, just curious. 

motoman617 wrote:

How many bikes do they plan to ship in their first year? Have they said? How many bikes are shipping each week or month? How long...

How many bikes do they plan to ship in their first year? Have they said? How many bikes are shipping each week or month? How long does it take to build one bike?  If you go to their site to order one today it says Dec. 2024 delivery. That seems like an awful long delivery time if they are already building and shipping bikes. Not trying to be negative, just curious. 

motoman617 wrote:

How many bikes do they plan to ship in their first year? Have they said? How many bikes are shipping each week or month? How long...

How many bikes do they plan to ship in their first year? Have they said? How many bikes are shipping each week or month? How long does it take to build one bike?  If you go to their site to order one today it says Dec. 2024 delivery. That seems like an awful long delivery time if they are already building and shipping bikes. Not trying to be negative, just curious. 

Goldmember wrote:

Stark Vargs are the Best MX Bike Ever Made, don't you know? How arrogant and insensitive can you be to ask difficult questions? They will be...

Stark Vargs are the Best MX Bike Ever Made, don't you know?

How arrogant and insensitive can you be to ask difficult questions?

They will be delivered when they are ready, one every 18 months it seems is the present schedule.

They take a lot of work to assemble from parts bought in from outside contractors; how much do you realistically think a company with 17,000 orders but only 80 people can accomplish?

 

BCE wrote:

Do you by any change ride a number 69 yamaha? https://youtu.be/_Hi_gmD2rfI?t=1885 Just kidding. I do get all the sketicism and raves about the bike. Just with...

Do you by any change ride a number 69 yamaha?

https://youtu.be/_Hi_gmD2rfI?t=1885

Just kidding.
I do get all the sketicism and raves about the bike.
Just with about everything else in life, the truth will be probable somewhere in the middle.

38special wrote:

Triumph did not take people's money based on one set of specifications (specifically weight) and delivery dates, and then change them via carefully spun PR messages. ...

Triumph did not take people's money based on one set of specifications (specifically weight) and delivery dates, and then change them via carefully spun PR messages.  Triumph did not announce "we're in production and shipping bikes", and then 5-6 weeks later, only actually deliver 1 bike.

Triumph is behaving exactly as I'd expect a well established motorcycle manufacturer to behave.  They will show the bike when it's ready.

I am not against Stark or Customer #1, but I do raise an eyebrow to Stark's way of doing things so far.  They must assume we're all so stupid that we'll just take all the PR at face value and not take a step back and think for ourselves.

 

aeffertz wrote:

Welcome to the world of pre-orders. I am firmly in the stance of never purchasing anything based on hopes and promises (wasn't there suppose to be...

Welcome to the world of pre-orders. I am firmly in the stance of never purchasing anything based on hopes and promises (wasn't there suppose to be a Tesla truck a few years ago?) but just because a company decides to roll out a thing based on that model doesn't mean it's a scam. 

I'm honestly so confused as to why people who have 0 investment or real interests keep commenting in these threads as if it's some sort of rug pull. Where is the next goal post going to be moved to? First it was the bike didn't exist, then when OP got his bike suddenly he was a Stark shill and it's still a scam. Seriously, why must everything be  a conspiracy theory in today's world? 

Goldmember wrote:

Stark Vargs are the Best MX Bike Ever Made, don't you know? How arrogant and insensitive can you be to ask difficult questions? They will be...

Stark Vargs are the Best MX Bike Ever Made, don't you know?

How arrogant and insensitive can you be to ask difficult questions?

They will be delivered when they are ready, one every 18 months it seems is the present schedule.

They take a lot of work to assemble from parts bought in from outside contractors; how much do you realistically think a company with 17,000 orders but only 80 people can accomplish?

 

motoman617 wrote:

How many bikes do they plan to ship in their first year? Have they said? How many bikes are shipping each week or month? How long...

How many bikes do they plan to ship in their first year? Have they said? How many bikes are shipping each week or month? How long does it take to build one bike?  If you go to their site to order one today it says Dec. 2024 delivery. That seems like an awful long delivery time if they are already building and shipping bikes. Not trying to be negative, just curious. 

Goldmember wrote:

Stark Vargs are the Best MX Bike Ever Made, don't you know? How arrogant and insensitive can you be to ask difficult questions? They will be...

Stark Vargs are the Best MX Bike Ever Made, don't you know?

How arrogant and insensitive can you be to ask difficult questions?

They will be delivered when they are ready, one every 18 months it seems is the present schedule.

They take a lot of work to assemble from parts bought in from outside contractors; how much do you realistically think a company with 17,000 orders but only 80 people can accomplish?

 

swordfish wrote:

Opinions are confusing to you?  Ever work for a start up or invest in one. I think there is a pretty valid concern about future support...

Opinions are confusing to you? 
Ever work for a start up or invest in one. I think there is a pretty valid concern about future support and outlook for Stark. That should not be a surprising revelation to any one. Lots of risk associated with becoming a customer.