Picture of Eli's boot

5/9/2023 4:41am
He's got a brand new one anyway...    

He's got a brand new one anyway...

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That's gotta be the happiest person to lose a million+ bucks I've seen.  He has to be one of the most mentally strong riders at this...

That's gotta be the happiest person to lose a million+ bucks I've seen.  He has to be one of the most mentally strong riders at this point.  Or maybe the injury helped him make a hard decision about keeping racing or stopping. Maybe he was just in shock , but it was so crazy to see the way he dealt with the injury In front of his hometown crowd and everything the injury means.

He's dealing with it better than 99% of his fans Laughing

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ga_pike
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5/9/2023 4:50am

So, assuming the "flexion bars" were removed to provide more freedom of motion AND these bars are designed to limit this type of injury, would it not make sense for these guys to wear boots that are unmodified and broken in instead of throwing them out there in brand new boots day of that are obviously "too stiff"?  Maybe at least get next week's boots to them the week before to allow the riders time to get them broken in?  

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Goldmember
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5/9/2023 5:07am
ga_pike wrote:
So, assuming the "flexion bars" were removed to provide more freedom of motion AND these bars are designed to limit this type of injury, would it...

So, assuming the "flexion bars" were removed to provide more freedom of motion AND these bars are designed to limit this type of injury, would it not make sense for these guys to wear boots that are unmodified and broken in instead of throwing them out there in brand new boots day of that are obviously "too stiff"?  Maybe at least get next week's boots to them the week before to allow the riders time to get them broken in?  

The flexion grill is a recent arrival; something for AS to point to.

Tó me the riders response shows what they think of overly stiff boots; it reduces primary safety- flexibility- while not adding anything real. So it's removed.

The AS 10 ankle anti rotation system is real and not tampered with. I know mine has saved me a couple of times.

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Spooner
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5/9/2023 5:07am
ga_pike wrote:
So, assuming the "flexion bars" were removed to provide more freedom of motion AND these bars are designed to limit this type of injury, would it...

So, assuming the "flexion bars" were removed to provide more freedom of motion AND these bars are designed to limit this type of injury, would it not make sense for these guys to wear boots that are unmodified and broken in instead of throwing them out there in brand new boots day of that are obviously "too stiff"?  Maybe at least get next week's boots to them the week before to allow the riders time to get them broken in?  

They do wear them when riding the week leading up to the race. But again the latest gen boots require almost zero break in these days. They are removing the flexion bridge for a different feel, not so they break in faster. 

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The Shop

ga_pike
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5/9/2023 5:55am
Spooner wrote:
They do wear them when riding the week leading up to the race. But again the latest gen boots require almost zero break in these days...

They do wear them when riding the week leading up to the race. But again the latest gen boots require almost zero break in these days. They are removing the flexion bridge for a different feel, not so they break in faster. 

Do they?  We've seen photos of special edition boots being delivered day of the race in Pit Bits so that's why I question that.  

Didn't several guys swap to Alpinestars back in the early 90's for better support over Fox , AXO, or others? 

Spooner
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5/9/2023 6:13am
Spooner wrote:
They do wear them when riding the week leading up to the race. But again the latest gen boots require almost zero break in these days...

They do wear them when riding the week leading up to the race. But again the latest gen boots require almost zero break in these days. They are removing the flexion bridge for a different feel, not so they break in faster. 

ga_pike wrote:
Do they?  We've seen photos of special edition boots being delivered day of the race in Pit Bits so that's why I question that.   Didn't several...

Do they?  We've seen photos of special edition boots being delivered day of the race in Pit Bits so that's why I question that.  

Didn't several guys swap to Alpinestars back in the early 90's for better support over Fox , AXO, or others? 

Yep, here’s several posts from the week before launch of the last few LE’s. 
 

IMG 2304

 
IMG 2303.png?VersionId=ZG

 IMG 2302

 IMG 2301.jpeg?VersionId=9Zbp

 

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MxAddic
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5/9/2023 6:24am
soggy wrote:

There is no evidence the boot failed. 

Really? You don't say...

Screenshot 20230508-085625~2 0

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MxAddic
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5/9/2023 6:26am
Spooner wrote:
They do wear them when riding the week leading up to the race. But again the latest gen boots require almost zero break in these days...

They do wear them when riding the week leading up to the race. But again the latest gen boots require almost zero break in these days. They are removing the flexion bridge for a different feel, not so they break in faster. 

Do you even Tech10 Bro?

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soggy
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5/9/2023 6:58am
soggy wrote:

There is no evidence the boot failed. 

MxAddic wrote:
Really? You don't say...    

Really? You don't say...

Screenshot 20230508-085625~2 0

 345855396 745848003887200 3852875245216067896 n 0 0

 

You can’t tell anything definitive from a blurry zoomed in photo. 

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kwhite199
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5/9/2023 7:08am
He's got a brand new one anyway...    

He's got a brand new one anyway...

345855396 745848003887200 3852875245216067896 n 0

 

With how badly this could have gone, I would take the walking boot and crutches any day.  Maybe that is why he is smiling!

 

 

 

1
5/9/2023 7:18am

I hate this for Eli.  I snapped mine years ago.  Two misconceptions are that there must have been tremendous force for it to have snapped and that it wasn't warmed/stretched out 1st.  They rarely snap when you first start working them.  It probably snapped as soon as pressure hit it, more because of the quickness of the pressure, the extreme flexion occurred after it snapped.  He didn't even know it went until that second hit and no support was there.  I did mine playing basketball, goofing around and going after a rebound playing knockout.  I thought the guy behind me had thrown a ball at my ankle for a split second.  I immediately jumped up, and hit the deck again when my foot would not take any pressure.  Within another second or two I knew it had snapped.  I was pretty sure Eli had snapped his before he had pulled over and stopped. Long recovery, and mine is always tight.  I can feel it now.  If this was early in his career, I'd say he would be back, but since it's not, I kinda doubt it. Then again, Ken came back from a even worse injury.  Oddly, I never think about it when I'm riding, but I do think I've moved my foot up a bit normally.  I seriously thought about getting some of the pegs with the support in the back. My boots make it feel pretty darn stable, Tech 7s.  But I don't jump outa the back of the pick-ups in tennis shoes anymore, that's for sure.     

2
5/9/2023 7:41am

ray%27s camera phone 243

 9 weeks after my surgery.  Did my own Rehab, their program was ridiculously slow.  Was on MTB bike after 3 months, M/C after 5 months, at about 6 months I did the triple threat at HH100 (A Mtb bike race/100 mile road bike ride and then a 1/2 marathon run on the MTB bike course all in the same weekend. I was much slower than years past, but I finished.  I'm not sure I'll actually ever recover 100%, but I was about as good as ever after a year.  And I'm not anywhere close to the machine that is Eli Tomac!  Eli here's a tip, make yourself some high heel water shoes for the shower, trust me on this one.  

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wydopen
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5/9/2023 8:18am
ga_pike wrote:
So, assuming the "flexion bars" were removed to provide more freedom of motion AND these bars are designed to limit this type of injury, would it...

So, assuming the "flexion bars" were removed to provide more freedom of motion AND these bars are designed to limit this type of injury, would it not make sense for these guys to wear boots that are unmodified and broken in instead of throwing them out there in brand new boots day of that are obviously "too stiff"?  Maybe at least get next week's boots to them the week before to allow the riders time to get them broken in?  

I figured they had their man friends walk around in their boots for a couple hrs before they ever wore them. 

DR176
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5/9/2023 9:08am

Having worked closely with Astars on some stuff, I can vouch that the riders all get their boots in time to ride and break them in the week before. Some guys take out the front bars on their own, some leave them stock, and some of the top guys have boots that are completely custom. The custom one's range from better inside leg grip or softer feel, to a boot that has a ton more flex. All just depends per the riders preference and it's really cool to see what Astars is willing to do for their riders if it's in the name of an extra .5% on race day. Would stock boots have saved him? Who knows but it's Eli's choice to wear the customs that he prefers. 

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DanielsenMX
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5/9/2023 9:54am
 Looks like the straps didn't hold?

Screenshot 20230508-085625~2

 Looks like the straps didn't hold?

Looks like he, and from what I've heard, other riders as well, removed the three plastic pieces on the front of the ankle that come stock on the tech 10s. Those help prevent hyperflexion I guess. 

soggy
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5/9/2023 11:00am

His ankle flexed so much because his Achilles snapped. Not because the boot was too soft or unbuckled.  Injuries happen all the time doing perfectly normal sports activities. (See Kobe when his Achilles snapped, or Kevin Durant). 

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5/9/2023 11:04am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2023 11:09am
soggy wrote:
His ankle flexed so much because his Achilles snapped. Not because the boot was too soft or unbuckled.  Injuries happen all the time doing perfectly normal...

His ankle flexed so much because his Achilles snapped. Not because the boot was too soft or unbuckled.  Injuries happen all the time doing perfectly normal sports activities. (See Kobe when his Achilles snapped, or Kevin Durant). 

The question here and througout this thread is whether the boot limits the range of motion or not. If the boot is designed to limit range of motion, than the limits of Eli's achilles doesn't matter, because it is designed to protect against it reaching that point. And if it isn't designed to limit the range of motion (in the configuration Eli used), than also it doesn't matter because the boot is working as designed to specifically not prevent that level of flexion.

But we don't have answers on either.

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soggy
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5/9/2023 11:08am
soggy wrote:
His ankle flexed so much because his Achilles snapped. Not because the boot was too soft or unbuckled.  Injuries happen all the time doing perfectly normal...

His ankle flexed so much because his Achilles snapped. Not because the boot was too soft or unbuckled.  Injuries happen all the time doing perfectly normal sports activities. (See Kobe when his Achilles snapped, or Kevin Durant). 

The question here and througout this thread is whether the boot limits the range of motion or not. If the boot is designed to limit range...

The question here and througout this thread is whether the boot limits the range of motion or not. If the boot is designed to limit range of motion, than the limits of Eli's achilles doesn't matter, because it is designed to protect against it reaching that point. And if it isn't designed to limit the range of motion (in the configuration Eli used), than also it doesn't matter because the boot is working as designed to specifically not prevent that level of flexion.

But we don't have answers on either.

When the Achilles snaps it’s usually not from over extension. It’s from a quick movement or change in forces. 

5/9/2023 11:10am
soggy wrote:
His ankle flexed so much because his Achilles snapped. Not because the boot was too soft or unbuckled.  Injuries happen all the time doing perfectly normal...

His ankle flexed so much because his Achilles snapped. Not because the boot was too soft or unbuckled.  Injuries happen all the time doing perfectly normal sports activities. (See Kobe when his Achilles snapped, or Kevin Durant). 

The question here and througout this thread is whether the boot limits the range of motion or not. If the boot is designed to limit range...

The question here and througout this thread is whether the boot limits the range of motion or not. If the boot is designed to limit range of motion, than the limits of Eli's achilles doesn't matter, because it is designed to protect against it reaching that point. And if it isn't designed to limit the range of motion (in the configuration Eli used), than also it doesn't matter because the boot is working as designed to specifically not prevent that level of flexion.

But we don't have answers on either.

soggy wrote:

When the Achilles snaps it’s usually not from over extension. It’s from a quick movement or change in forces. 

Well, then the question should be an easy answer.

1
5/9/2023 11:13am

8DC93ABB-AD12-46D9-8AEB-0F2184C71497.jpeg?VersionId=hx0mwbO

WarrenMX wrote:
Where are the flexion absorption bars? I just got a new pair of tech 10s and I always forget how damn stiff they are when they...

Where are the flexion absorption bars?

I just got a new pair of tech 10s and I always forget how damn stiff they are when they are new, I find them really hard to ride in at first. It got me thinking, how do the pros deal with new boots every weekend? Sounds like this is the answer?

I can't remember which rider it was, but I recall them saying that they used to break in James Stewart's boots for him during the week leading up to the race because Stew absolutely hated wearing new boots. Maybe it was Chiz?

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studworx
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5/9/2023 11:26am
Goldmember wrote:
The flexion grill is a recent arrival; something for AS to point to. Tó me the riders response shows what they think of overly stiff boots...

The flexion grill is a recent arrival; something for AS to point to.

Tó me the riders response shows what they think of overly stiff boots; it reduces primary safety- flexibility- while not adding anything real. So it's removed.

The AS 10 ankle anti rotation system is real and not tampered with. I know mine has saved me a couple of times.

Exactly this

Moto520
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5/9/2023 11:41am
rbjennings wrote:
 9 weeks after my surgery.  Did my own Rehab, their program was ridiculously slow.  Was on MTB bike after 3 months, M/C after 5 months, at...

ray%27s camera phone 243

 9 weeks after my surgery.  Did my own Rehab, their program was ridiculously slow.  Was on MTB bike after 3 months, M/C after 5 months, at about 6 months I did the triple threat at HH100 (A Mtb bike race/100 mile road bike ride and then a 1/2 marathon run on the MTB bike course all in the same weekend. I was much slower than years past, but I finished.  I'm not sure I'll actually ever recover 100%, but I was about as good as ever after a year.  And I'm not anywhere close to the machine that is Eli Tomac!  Eli here's a tip, make yourself some high heel water shoes for the shower, trust me on this one.  

Good to hear that you were able to get out there and compete so quickly.  You are a tough dude for that

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5/9/2023 11:43am
The question here and througout this thread is whether the boot limits the range of motion or not. If the boot is designed to limit range...

The question here and througout this thread is whether the boot limits the range of motion or not. If the boot is designed to limit range of motion, than the limits of Eli's achilles doesn't matter, because it is designed to protect against it reaching that point. And if it isn't designed to limit the range of motion (in the configuration Eli used), than also it doesn't matter because the boot is working as designed to specifically not prevent that level of flexion.

But we don't have answers on either.

We saw Eli's boot hyper-flexion in what he said was not an extreme landing. So not designed to or capable of limiting.

I imagine if they made them with a hard flexion stop, if it were possible (given they are made from soft leather and plastic), the chances are that the metatarsals, the foot bones, or some other structure, would break.

1
5/9/2023 11:47am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2023 11:51am
The question here and througout this thread is whether the boot limits the range of motion or not. If the boot is designed to limit range...

The question here and througout this thread is whether the boot limits the range of motion or not. If the boot is designed to limit range of motion, than the limits of Eli's achilles doesn't matter, because it is designed to protect against it reaching that point. And if it isn't designed to limit the range of motion (in the configuration Eli used), than also it doesn't matter because the boot is working as designed to specifically not prevent that level of flexion.

But we don't have answers on either.

Goldmember wrote:
We saw Eli's boot hyper-flexion in what he said was not an extreme landing. So not designed to or capable of limiting. I imagine if they...

We saw Eli's boot hyper-flexion in what he said was not an extreme landing. So not designed to or capable of limiting.

I imagine if they made them with a hard flexion stop, if it were possible (given they are made from soft leather and plastic), the chances are that the metatarsals, the foot bones, or some other structure, would break.

Or the rider would say it is not "comfy," and nix that feature  But that's not even where we are.

We're still in stage where we're acting as if the safety gear couldn't possibly play a role in the safety. There was a time pro riders actively advocated against helmets.

1
5/9/2023 12:10pm

One very good observation about that center part of the boot.. Clearly its either modified by the riders or by Alpinestars, via rider request. This way they have more flex in a brand new boot. I'm guessing those 3 hard plastic bars are supposed to hit each other and create a wedge to stop the boot from any further motion. Remove those, now that area has no more restriction. Could easily be a reason that boot over extended. And Eli wouldn't throw  Astars under the bus as its one of his biggest sponsors. I'm sure it will come out in 10 years. Just sucks that this whole thing happened.

ASTAR-TECH10-LE

 ELI-DENVER-BOOT.jpg?VersionId=q96wXh.vFAWN

 

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mersk331
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5/9/2023 1:43pm

Astars gives the athletes a lot of leeway and options with what is possible to do with the boots. A lot of them, especially Eli, are very picky on feel/comfort and mobility. Eli doesn't typically burn through a lot of boots throughout the year so when there is an LE boot he will always break the boot in. The athletes usually get enough time to do that. A few of the guys have been running the boots without the flexion stack in the front of the boot so they have more mobility and easier to break in. The buckles don't stop the boot from fulling compressing like Eli experienced.  Eli doesn't run his buckles super tight, but the buckles can come loose when they flex that much and that's why they look like that in the photo. The buckles didn't break. I feel for Eli and hope that he does come back. Thats a shitty deal no doubt.

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kpiper
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5/9/2023 5:09pm

I don't think it was a boot issue or foot placement. It was a freak thing. He has probably landed like that 2000+ times with no issue.

It happens and the likelihood increases with age. "The peak age for Achilles tendon rupture is 30 to 40" - Mayo Clinic.

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kpiper
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5/9/2023 5:10pm

hannahfootpeg

 Hannah always preached riding on the balls of your feet as the secret to going fast.

soggy
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5/9/2023 5:13pm
Rosso391 wrote:
One very good observation about that center part of the boot.. Clearly its either modified by the riders or by Alpinestars, via rider request. This way...

One very good observation about that center part of the boot.. Clearly its either modified by the riders or by Alpinestars, via rider request. This way they have more flex in a brand new boot. I'm guessing those 3 hard plastic bars are supposed to hit each other and create a wedge to stop the boot from any further motion. Remove those, now that area has no more restriction. Could easily be a reason that boot over extended. And Eli wouldn't throw  Astars under the bus as its one of his biggest sponsors. I'm sure it will come out in 10 years. Just sucks that this whole thing happened.

ASTAR-TECH10-LE

 ELI-DENVER-BOOT.jpg?VersionId=q96wXh.vFAWN

 

That little piece of plastic on the front of the boot is not limiting the movement. It may make it flex easier but the boots flex is limited with the hinges and the cuff of the boot. 
 

it socks this happened but chances are it was going to happen to him regardless of the boot he was in. 

2
5/9/2023 5:16pm
Rosso391 wrote:
One very good observation about that center part of the boot.. Clearly its either modified by the riders or by Alpinestars, via rider request. This way...

One very good observation about that center part of the boot.. Clearly its either modified by the riders or by Alpinestars, via rider request. This way they have more flex in a brand new boot. I'm guessing those 3 hard plastic bars are supposed to hit each other and create a wedge to stop the boot from any further motion. Remove those, now that area has no more restriction. Could easily be a reason that boot over extended. And Eli wouldn't throw  Astars under the bus as its one of his biggest sponsors. I'm sure it will come out in 10 years. Just sucks that this whole thing happened.

ASTAR-TECH10-LE

 ELI-DENVER-BOOT.jpg?VersionId=q96wXh.vFAWN

 

soggy wrote:
That little piece of plastic on the front of the boot is not limiting the movement. It may make it flex easier but the boots flex...

That little piece of plastic on the front of the boot is not limiting the movement. It may make it flex easier but the boots flex is limited with the hinges and the cuff of the boot. 
 

it socks this happened but chances are it was going to happen to him regardless of the boot he was in. 

If it "may flex easier" without said piece, than it is certainly providing some resistance on range of motion. 

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