Does Chase’s SX Championship “Change the Silly Season”…?

5/8/2023 6:07am
Mit12 wrote:

Sexton wants off the Honda, its not about the money.

Yeah the rumor was he wants to be the big dog on a team and he can’t get the Honda front end to feel right to him. 

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JBlain619
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5/8/2023 7:12am Edited Date/Time 5/8/2023 7:13am
TeamGreen wrote:
We’ve all heard the tale that Chase is going to KTM, right? However, I’m quite sure Honda has “1st right to refuse”; so, do they? Do...

We’ve all heard the tale that Chase is going to KTM, right?

However, I’m quite sure Honda has “1st right to refuse”; so, do they?

Do they refuse to beat other offers?

Do they keep Chase? 

Does this change things regarding who’s on a 450 at Honda over the next few years? We all know that Jett is on the 450 alongside Chase for the Nationals next month and assumedly the SMX Finals…but, there’s been all sorts of speculation as to who’s on a Honda 450 alongside Jett in ‘24 & beyond.

I’m thinking this can change what we think we know.

There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well. It would be up to the OEM to exercise the clause.  It will be interesting as to how HRC is going to handle this.  They have been waiting for a premier title in SX since RC, so it would be easy to see how they would want to keep him. IF Chase is truly unhappy, I don't know that HRC would keep him around.  It will get really interesting if Chase wins the outdoors too.

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lumpy790
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5/8/2023 8:01am

Lots of 2024 contract negotiations just went in the trash and negotiations are beginning all over again.

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stremme12
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5/8/2023 8:05am Edited Date/Time 5/8/2023 8:11am
TeamGreen wrote:
We’ve all heard the tale that Chase is going to KTM, right? However, I’m quite sure Honda has “1st right to refuse”; so, do they? Do...

We’ve all heard the tale that Chase is going to KTM, right?

However, I’m quite sure Honda has “1st right to refuse”; so, do they?

Do they refuse to beat other offers?

Do they keep Chase? 

Does this change things regarding who’s on a 450 at Honda over the next few years? We all know that Jett is on the 450 alongside Chase for the Nationals next month and assumedly the SMX Finals…but, there’s been all sorts of speculation as to who’s on a Honda 450 alongside Jett in ‘24 & beyond.

I’m thinking this can change what we think we know.

JBlain619 wrote:
There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well...

There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well. It would be up to the OEM to exercise the clause.  It will be interesting as to how HRC is going to handle this.  They have been waiting for a premier title in SX since RC, so it would be easy to see how they would want to keep him. IF Chase is truly unhappy, I don't know that HRC would keep him around.  It will get really interesting if Chase wins the outdoors too.

What does championship clause mean though that pertains to Honda keeping Chase?

A clause where if he wins he has to stay? What does a championship clause have to do with him leaving?

I could see a clause that says if you win a championship we will renew but I don't believe that is the case here. It sounds like Chase wants to leave not stay so a clause really has nothing to do with this situation. 

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The Shop

5/8/2023 8:35am
TeamGreen wrote:
We’ve all heard the tale that Chase is going to KTM, right? However, I’m quite sure Honda has “1st right to refuse”; so, do they? Do...

We’ve all heard the tale that Chase is going to KTM, right?

However, I’m quite sure Honda has “1st right to refuse”; so, do they?

Do they refuse to beat other offers?

Do they keep Chase? 

Does this change things regarding who’s on a 450 at Honda over the next few years? We all know that Jett is on the 450 alongside Chase for the Nationals next month and assumedly the SMX Finals…but, there’s been all sorts of speculation as to who’s on a Honda 450 alongside Jett in ‘24 & beyond.

I’m thinking this can change what we think we know.

JBlain619 wrote:
There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well...

There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well. It would be up to the OEM to exercise the clause.  It will be interesting as to how HRC is going to handle this.  They have been waiting for a premier title in SX since RC, so it would be easy to see how they would want to keep him. IF Chase is truly unhappy, I don't know that HRC would keep him around.  It will get really interesting if Chase wins the outdoors too.

stremme12 wrote:
What does championship clause mean though that pertains to Honda keeping Chase? A clause where if he wins he has to stay? What does a championship...

What does championship clause mean though that pertains to Honda keeping Chase?

A clause where if he wins he has to stay? What does a championship clause have to do with him leaving?

I could see a clause that says if you win a championship we will renew but I don't believe that is the case here. It sounds like Chase wants to leave not stay so a clause really has nothing to do with this situation. 

It all depends on how the contract is written.  If it says that the contract is automatically renewed at X amount % increase  and there is not anything in it allowing either party to back out. Then it could change things. I don't know if any team has ever kept a rider that wanted to leave though.  If both Honda and Sexton wanted out of the deal they could probably make that happen no matter what the contract said. Plus Honda has the advantage of knowing how the testing has been going with Jett on a 450. So they have a little bit of  insight into how Jett will be on the 450. Practice and testing is different from racing though, but its still a piece of info I would factor into my decision if I was part of Team Honda. Even if they think Jett will beat Chase, it would be better to have them both just to be safe. And then with Hunter , they could sweep a podium or 2 here and there when they are all on 450's. Should be interesting how the next few years go.

I wonder which will change things up more,Chase winning the title, or Eli possible not being able to ride for a big  part of next year ( If he decides to come back) . I've seen estimates  for 8 weeks to 12 months or more for the injury Eli has. Who knows how long he will be out.I hope he comes back and doesn't go out like this. I saw that his wife posted that he WILL be back. I hope that is the case. Maybe this time away from racing will show Eli he wants to stick around longer than he thought he did.

I just still can not believe that happened. Such a strange thing. I feel for him and his family and team. I  also saw that his Dad had a similar injury, so another time that his Dad's experience can help him out . 

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stremme12
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5/8/2023 8:42am
JBlain619 wrote:
There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well...

There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well. It would be up to the OEM to exercise the clause.  It will be interesting as to how HRC is going to handle this.  They have been waiting for a premier title in SX since RC, so it would be easy to see how they would want to keep him. IF Chase is truly unhappy, I don't know that HRC would keep him around.  It will get really interesting if Chase wins the outdoors too.

stremme12 wrote:
What does championship clause mean though that pertains to Honda keeping Chase? A clause where if he wins he has to stay? What does a championship...

What does championship clause mean though that pertains to Honda keeping Chase?

A clause where if he wins he has to stay? What does a championship clause have to do with him leaving?

I could see a clause that says if you win a championship we will renew but I don't believe that is the case here. It sounds like Chase wants to leave not stay so a clause really has nothing to do with this situation. 

It all depends on how the contract is written.  If it says that the contract is automatically renewed at X amount % increase  and there is...

It all depends on how the contract is written.  If it says that the contract is automatically renewed at X amount % increase  and there is not anything in it allowing either party to back out. Then it could change things. I don't know if any team has ever kept a rider that wanted to leave though.  If both Honda and Sexton wanted out of the deal they could probably make that happen no matter what the contract said. Plus Honda has the advantage of knowing how the testing has been going with Jett on a 450. So they have a little bit of  insight into how Jett will be on the 450. Practice and testing is different from racing though, but its still a piece of info I would factor into my decision if I was part of Team Honda. Even if they think Jett will beat Chase, it would be better to have them both just to be safe. And then with Hunter , they could sweep a podium or 2 here and there when they are all on 450's. Should be interesting how the next few years go.

I wonder which will change things up more,Chase winning the title, or Eli possible not being able to ride for a big  part of next year ( If he decides to come back) . I've seen estimates  for 8 weeks to 12 months or more for the injury Eli has. Who knows how long he will be out.I hope he comes back and doesn't go out like this. I saw that his wife posted that he WILL be back. I hope that is the case. Maybe this time away from racing will show Eli he wants to stick around longer than he thought he did.

I just still can not believe that happened. Such a strange thing. I feel for him and his family and team. I  also saw that his Dad had a similar injury, so another time that his Dad's experience can help him out . 

So there has been actual contracts written that state if you win a championship you have to stay?

 

I understand a pay increase but we're specifically talking about Sexton leaving not getting a bigger pay day. 

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JBlain619
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5/8/2023 9:39am
JBlain619 wrote:
There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well...

There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well. It would be up to the OEM to exercise the clause.  It will be interesting as to how HRC is going to handle this.  They have been waiting for a premier title in SX since RC, so it would be easy to see how they would want to keep him. IF Chase is truly unhappy, I don't know that HRC would keep him around.  It will get really interesting if Chase wins the outdoors too.

stremme12 wrote:
What does championship clause mean though that pertains to Honda keeping Chase? A clause where if he wins he has to stay? What does a championship...

What does championship clause mean though that pertains to Honda keeping Chase?

A clause where if he wins he has to stay? What does a championship clause have to do with him leaving?

I could see a clause that says if you win a championship we will renew but I don't believe that is the case here. It sounds like Chase wants to leave not stay so a clause really has nothing to do with this situation. 

It all depends on how the contract is written.  If it says that the contract is automatically renewed at X amount % increase  and there is...

It all depends on how the contract is written.  If it says that the contract is automatically renewed at X amount % increase  and there is not anything in it allowing either party to back out. Then it could change things. I don't know if any team has ever kept a rider that wanted to leave though.  If both Honda and Sexton wanted out of the deal they could probably make that happen no matter what the contract said. Plus Honda has the advantage of knowing how the testing has been going with Jett on a 450. So they have a little bit of  insight into how Jett will be on the 450. Practice and testing is different from racing though, but its still a piece of info I would factor into my decision if I was part of Team Honda. Even if they think Jett will beat Chase, it would be better to have them both just to be safe. And then with Hunter , they could sweep a podium or 2 here and there when they are all on 450's. Should be interesting how the next few years go.

I wonder which will change things up more,Chase winning the title, or Eli possible not being able to ride for a big  part of next year ( If he decides to come back) . I've seen estimates  for 8 weeks to 12 months or more for the injury Eli has. Who knows how long he will be out.I hope he comes back and doesn't go out like this. I saw that his wife posted that he WILL be back. I hope that is the case. Maybe this time away from racing will show Eli he wants to stick around longer than he thought he did.

I just still can not believe that happened. Such a strange thing. I feel for him and his family and team. I  also saw that his Dad had a similar injury, so another time that his Dad's experience can help him out . 

Perfectly explained!  Essentially it protects both the rider and the OEM.  

Now, they could mutually agree to part ways but it is enforceable by either party. 

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JBlain619
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5/8/2023 9:43am Edited Date/Time 5/8/2023 9:43am
TeamGreen wrote:
We’ve all heard the tale that Chase is going to KTM, right? However, I’m quite sure Honda has “1st right to refuse”; so, do they? Do...

We’ve all heard the tale that Chase is going to KTM, right?

However, I’m quite sure Honda has “1st right to refuse”; so, do they?

Do they refuse to beat other offers?

Do they keep Chase? 

Does this change things regarding who’s on a 450 at Honda over the next few years? We all know that Jett is on the 450 alongside Chase for the Nationals next month and assumedly the SMX Finals…but, there’s been all sorts of speculation as to who’s on a Honda 450 alongside Jett in ‘24 & beyond.

I’m thinking this can change what we think we know.

JBlain619 wrote:
There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well...

There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well. It would be up to the OEM to exercise the clause.  It will be interesting as to how HRC is going to handle this.  They have been waiting for a premier title in SX since RC, so it would be easy to see how they would want to keep him. IF Chase is truly unhappy, I don't know that HRC would keep him around.  It will get really interesting if Chase wins the outdoors too.

stremme12 wrote:
What does championship clause mean though that pertains to Honda keeping Chase? A clause where if he wins he has to stay? What does a championship...

What does championship clause mean though that pertains to Honda keeping Chase?

A clause where if he wins he has to stay? What does a championship clause have to do with him leaving?

I could see a clause that says if you win a championship we will renew but I don't believe that is the case here. It sounds like Chase wants to leave not stay so a clause really has nothing to do with this situation. 

No, if HRC wants him to stay, he bound contractually to do so.

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stremme12
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5/8/2023 10:39am
JBlain619 wrote:
There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well...

There is undoubtedly a Right of First Refusal in the contract.  Also, all of the contracts I have reviewed have "Championship Clauses" in them as well. It would be up to the OEM to exercise the clause.  It will be interesting as to how HRC is going to handle this.  They have been waiting for a premier title in SX since RC, so it would be easy to see how they would want to keep him. IF Chase is truly unhappy, I don't know that HRC would keep him around.  It will get really interesting if Chase wins the outdoors too.

stremme12 wrote:
What does championship clause mean though that pertains to Honda keeping Chase? A clause where if he wins he has to stay? What does a championship...

What does championship clause mean though that pertains to Honda keeping Chase?

A clause where if he wins he has to stay? What does a championship clause have to do with him leaving?

I could see a clause that says if you win a championship we will renew but I don't believe that is the case here. It sounds like Chase wants to leave not stay so a clause really has nothing to do with this situation. 

JBlain619 wrote:

No, if HRC wants him to stay, he bound contractually to do so.

That sort of answers my question. 

 

I was asking since you've seen these contracts if it's actually written that if you win a championship you can't leave. 

 

burn1986
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5/8/2023 11:37am
TeamGreen wrote:
We’ve all heard the tale that Chase is going to KTM, right? However, I’m quite sure Honda has “1st right to refuse”; so, do they? Do...

We’ve all heard the tale that Chase is going to KTM, right?

However, I’m quite sure Honda has “1st right to refuse”; so, do they?

Do they refuse to beat other offers?

Do they keep Chase? 

Does this change things regarding who’s on a 450 at Honda over the next few years? We all know that Jett is on the 450 alongside Chase for the Nationals next month and assumedly the SMX Finals…but, there’s been all sorts of speculation as to who’s on a Honda 450 alongside Jett in ‘24 & beyond.

I’m thinking this can change what we think we know.

I think Chase is doing fine on the bike, and I don’t think the bike was as much of the problem as was Chase having some brain fade/ relaxing at the wrong time. Yeah, it was the bike a little bit too, but he’s made it work. Chase has been close, but if Coop and Eli hadn’t gotten hurt, he would’ve been third in the standings. Not sure if Honda is looking at it that way or not. 
 

Either way, I think it would be up to Chase to decide if he wants KTM or Honda. 

Bruce372
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5/8/2023 11:50am

It's funny how so many people are looking for Chase to be loyal to the massive corporate behemoth Honda vs the smaller niche company that has made so many innovations with the motorcycles many of us ride.

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Press516
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Fantasy
5/8/2023 11:53am

It sure feels like Chase is headed to KTM.  And does this perceived loss of Eli raise the likelihood of Webb going back to Star?  I think the silly season just got much more active and possibly dramatic...

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Racerman967
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5/8/2023 12:36pm

If Eli wants to come back he is at Star. Which means Webb is at KTM. Chase will not be there if Cooper is. 

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5/8/2023 6:17pm
Bruce372 wrote:
It's funny how so many people are looking for Chase to be loyal to the massive corporate behemoth Honda vs the smaller niche company that has...

It's funny how so many people are looking for Chase to be loyal to the massive corporate behemoth Honda vs the smaller niche company that has made so many innovations with the motorcycles many of us ride.

What innovations has KTM done? 

Make there pro racers only train at the bakers factory and get burned out way too soon?

I believe your not going to surpass the japan motorcycle company's in innovations, most certain honda and yamaha.

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dan22
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5/8/2023 7:17pm
Bruce372 wrote:
It's funny how so many people are looking for Chase to be loyal to the massive corporate behemoth Honda vs the smaller niche company that has...

It's funny how so many people are looking for Chase to be loyal to the massive corporate behemoth Honda vs the smaller niche company that has made so many innovations with the motorcycles many of us ride.

What innovations has KTM done?  Make there pro racers only train at the bakers factory and get burned out way too soon? I believe your not...

What innovations has KTM done? 

Make there pro racers only train at the bakers factory and get burned out way too soon?

I believe your not going to surpass the japan motorcycle company's in innovations, most certain honda and yamaha.

yeah i agree. The Japanese have innovated and done far, far more for the sport than KTM. KTM have hitched onto a wealthy sponsor (red bull) and dominated off road disciplines where the japs have left a long long time ago. 

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kiwifan
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5/8/2023 7:45pm Edited Date/Time 5/8/2023 7:46pm

I cant see Chase staying at Honda, rumor goes (and he actually has not said it in any interviews) in Vital that he wants to be #1 on the team, that still could be the case at Honda (even with Jett there) but definitely would be the case at KTM....so I think he goes to KTM, if that rumor is true.

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5/8/2023 7:53pm

First right of refusal was refused. KTM made him an offer 18 months ago, Honda matched, KTM offered more. The contract was signed, and became official in March. 
 
He rode the bike, he liked the bike, he’s gone. 

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5/8/2023 7:56pm
Honda might have to field a three-man team for them to keep Chase. It seems like the Lawrence's are a package deal, at least they were...

Honda might have to field a three-man team for them to keep Chase. It seems like the Lawrence's are a package deal, at least they were when Honda wanted to keep Jett in the wake of the Geico team collapse. 

Tough call. In my opinion, Chase's future is as bright as Jett's and Hunter is not far behind. 

They’re not a package deal, Hunter is up next year and Jett the year after. 

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seth505
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5/8/2023 8:04pm
Bruce372 wrote:
It's funny how so many people are looking for Chase to be loyal to the massive corporate behemoth Honda vs the smaller niche company that has...

It's funny how so many people are looking for Chase to be loyal to the massive corporate behemoth Honda vs the smaller niche company that has made so many innovations with the motorcycles many of us ride.

What innovations has KTM done?  Make there pro racers only train at the bakers factory and get burned out way too soon? I believe your not...

What innovations has KTM done? 

Make there pro racers only train at the bakers factory and get burned out way too soon?

I believe your not going to surpass the japan motorcycle company's in innovations, most certain honda and yamaha.

Pushing motor performance (hp), using hydraulic clutch, pushing weight loss on platforms, using components that aren't garbage (Brembo brakes, clutch baskets that aren't made of cheese, machined triple clamps, cranks/transmissions that are a step up), easy air filter access, improved swing arm/chain guide design, etc.

Not even saying those are all clear improvements but to say they haven't pushed the envelope (in more recent years) is crazy.

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5/8/2023 8:07pm
Wiff3 wrote:
Would a Sexton, Lawrence thing even work?   A first place guy and a 4-7th place guy would probably be fine, but if they're both, or possibly...

Would a Sexton, Lawrence thing even work?   A first place guy and a 4-7th place guy would probably be fine, but if they're both, or possibly all three fighting for wins, things would probably get pretty heated at the Honda semi.

davistld01 wrote:
That was how it was back in the 89’s on Team Honda. On any night (or day…) 3-4 riders who could actually win were on red...

That was how it was back in the 89’s on Team Honda. On any night (or day…) 3-4 riders who could actually win were on red bikes! Honda might do the Lawrence-Sexton team just to make things exciting.

Or, no.

Honda can do this!   

Honda can do this! 

7251 1984 - team honda 600 1.jpg?VersionId=eEkYGC8BGUGRjLqIMfMtPqPbGM

 

This Honda doesn’t exist anymore. 
 

 

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JL13
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5/8/2023 8:33pm
UpTiTe wrote:
First right of refusal was refused. KTM made him an offer 18 months ago, Honda matched, KTM offered more. The contract was signed, and became official...

First right of refusal was refused. KTM made him an offer 18 months ago, Honda matched, KTM offered more. The contract was signed, and became official in March. 
 
He rode the bike, he liked the bike, he’s gone. 

You can sign a future contract while in the midst of fulfilling a current contract?

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5/8/2023 8:43pm

There’s a reason the Japanese lost the battle of Midway.  They are extremely bright, but then again…are dumb af. 

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bd
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5/8/2023 9:04pm Edited Date/Time 5/8/2023 9:08pm

I’d bet monies that CS23 has a kicker in his LOI and KTM has to pay a lot more monies since Sexton won a title.

I bleed Honda HRC red, so I hope the the pumpkin is a disaster and Webb wins titles on a Japanese bike. Also, hope that Jett is generational rider. Huge fan of Sexton, but no fan of the KTM. 

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bd
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5/8/2023 9:06pm
UpTiTe wrote:
First right of refusal was refused. KTM made him an offer 18 months ago, Honda matched, KTM offered more. The contract was signed, and became official...

First right of refusal was refused. KTM made him an offer 18 months ago, Honda matched, KTM offered more. The contract was signed, and became official in March. 
 
He rode the bike, he liked the bike, he’s gone. 

JL13 wrote:

You can sign a future contract while in the midst of fulfilling a current contract?

Heard he signed a non binding LOI. Honda could make a run but usually manufacturers don’t fight to keep a rider. 

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bd
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5/8/2023 9:07pm

So, could Honda sue KTM? How can you have a contractual agreement while you’re on a contract? 

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5/8/2023 9:24pm Edited Date/Time 5/8/2023 9:27pm

Didn’t Honda have a problem with MC in his prime because they saw him riding a different brand jet ski at the lake?  Correct me if I’m wrong. 

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5/8/2023 9:45pm
bd wrote:

So, could Honda sue KTM? How can you have a contractual agreement while you’re on a contract? 

Does that matter? Time periods don’t overlap

kiwifan
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5/8/2023 10:01pm
UpTiTe wrote:
First right of refusal was refused. KTM made him an offer 18 months ago, Honda matched, KTM offered more. The contract was signed, and became official...

First right of refusal was refused. KTM made him an offer 18 months ago, Honda matched, KTM offered more. The contract was signed, and became official in March. 
 
He rode the bike, he liked the bike, he’s gone. 

if thats true then good on Honda for helping him win a championship knowing that the #1 plate goes elsewhere

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bd
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5/8/2023 10:12pm
bd wrote:

So, could Honda sue KTM? How can you have a contractual agreement while you’re on a contract? 

Does that matter? Time periods don’t overlap

I have no idea, I’m not a contractual lawyer. 

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bd
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5/8/2023 10:18pm

I was under the assumption that riders could sign LOI but couldn’t sign agreements for a certain time period. 

All I know is that Honda has trouble keeping elite talent. It’s lost an all-timer, Tomac and sounds like Sexton. 

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