Most stacked field ever

zookrider62!
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Edited Date/Time 4/3/2023 6:52am

We hear this at the start of almost every season, and we hear some reasons why, but rarely do we see any statistics behind that.

 

I wanted to do my own analysis on it to determine going into A1 (or wherever the first round was), how stacked the field really was.

 

The criteria was pretty simple, past champions add to how "stacked" the field was.

450 SX/MX received 3 points

250 MX received 2 points

250 SX received 1 point

Riders would be assigned points based off whichever their highest points they had acheived at that time.

As an example Eli Tomac would be worth 1 point for 2013, 2 points in 2014 and 3 points from 2018-eternity

I then pulled the results from the first round and counted up all of the points, from 2005 (the season I first remember hearing about how stacked it was) to 2023

 

Obviously this isnt perfect as Chad Reed would be worth 3 points from 2004-now, and he realistically wasnt a championship or even race win threat in 2020, but he still would add 3 points to the most stacked season.

 

With my analysis, 2009 (13 points) was the least stacked field and 2020 was the most (29 points)

 

2009 - over half of the field had no previous championships. The only previous champions were:

Chad Reed (3 points), Tim Ferry (1 point), Ryan Villopoto (2 points), Ivan Tedesco (2 points), Kevin Windham (1 point), and Bubba (3 points)

Years of RC dominating the 450 class and the Ryans (Dungey and Villopoto) sweeping up the 250s didnt leave much room for anyone else

 

Round 1 of 2020 had over 60% of the field made up of previous champions

Justin Barcia (1 point), Adam Cianciarulo (2 points), Cooper Webb (3 points), Blake Baggett (2 points), Jason Anderson (3 points), Ken Roczen (3 points), Eli Tomac (3 points), Malcolm Stewart (1 point), Justin Hill (1 point), Aaron Plessigner (2 points), Dean Wilson (2 points), Zach Osbourne (2 points), Justin Bogle (1 point), Chad Reed (3 points)

 

Some fun facts

Average deepness of field is 19 points

2007-2012 were some of the weakest fields all under the 19 point average

2023 and 2021 were just 1 point shy of tying the strongest fields

2005 - my starting point based on my memory, was actually just an average year for depth of field

 

depth by year

Capture2 0

Strength of field

Capture3

 

I've probably made some mistakes in my calculations, and i've already addressed this isnt a perfect formula, but thought this would be a fun topic for the week after a break in racing

 

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JN137
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4/3/2023 7:39am

I think one of the reasons this season specifically has been so good, is that we have seen so much consistency from the guys who are supposed to be at the top. The top 5-7 has been almost exactly the same every round, just rearrange the order a bit. 

I will say, statistics aside, the years when we had RV, Stew, RD, Reed, Canard, lining up against each other every weekend was pretty hard to beat.

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tomlopez
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4/3/2023 8:12am
JN137 wrote:
I think one of the reasons this season specifically has been so good, is that we have seen so much consistency from the guys who are...

I think one of the reasons this season specifically has been so good, is that we have seen so much consistency from the guys who are supposed to be at the top. The top 5-7 has been almost exactly the same every round, just rearrange the order a bit. 

I will say, statistics aside, the years when we had RV, Stew, RD, Reed, Canard, lining up against each other every weekend was pretty hard to beat.

2011 was the best season I've ever watched

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Park Boys
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4/3/2023 8:23am

2011 while Canard was still healthy was about as good as it gets and even after his injury it was still tops.

Had Reed not got hurt in 2014 that year would have been right up there with 2011. 
 

2006 was the only season of the big 3 all year, so that is up near the top as well. 

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Spoonguy
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4/3/2023 9:01am

Mid 1980s?

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The Shop

JG463
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4/3/2023 9:11am Edited Date/Time 4/3/2023 9:12am
Spoonguy wrote:

Mid 1980s?

He states he started in 2005. Put in the time and create a comparison like this if it interests you. 

 

OP great work and interesting comparative of facts rather than emotion-based claims. 

Did you consider pointing wins or podiums rather than just championships? Just curious on what other data you looked in to. The reason I asked is because in my opinion, the most stacked field ever could have a total of 17 different winners (speaking on SX) but one champion. 

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zookrider62!
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4/3/2023 9:25am
Spoonguy wrote:

Mid 1980s?

JG463 wrote:
He states he started in 2005. Put in the time and create a comparison like this if it interests you.    OP great work and interesting...

He states he started in 2005. Put in the time and create a comparison like this if it interests you. 

 

OP great work and interesting comparative of facts rather than emotion-based claims. 

Did you consider pointing wins or podiums rather than just championships? Just curious on what other data you looked in to. The reason I asked is because in my opinion, the most stacked field ever could have a total of 17 different winners (speaking on SX) but one champion. 

yeah, there's a lot more data I want to play with when I have some more free time

Wins/Podiums/depreciation (so a championship in 1997 isnt saying youre a key player in 2014), are all ideas I tossed around, going off of championships was simply the easiest way to kick this fun project off.

 

I also would like to go further back with the same criteria as I did initially and starting from 95ish to current, but honestly going into the 80's isnt going to happen. Our sport has been structured pretty similarly for the past 30 years, 2 classes, 5 total championship's per year, and a relatively similar number of races per season. Once you go back to the 80's and 70, it's like apples and oranges. Even with ending at 2005 the older formats presented a challenge, how the hell did I factor in LoRocco's 500 MX championship.

 

I also completely negated any GP championships - which I dont think is a good practice, so I need to figure that out also.

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agn5008
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4/3/2023 9:42am

I remember looking at the entry list for A1 in 2016 and being amazed that most guys had either a 450 or 250 title. 
 

Anderson, Dungey, Seely, Tomac, Roczen, Reed, Canard, Millsaps, Wilson, Tickle, Weimer, Bogle, Musquin, Barcia, Alessi, Hahn, Pourcel, JS7… That’s a lot of title holders in one race. 

TDeath21
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4/3/2023 11:51am Edited Date/Time 4/3/2023 11:52am

Awesome data! Thanks for sharing.

I think one thing a lot of people confuse is a weak field with a dominant rider. Dominant riders make fields seem weaker, as they scoop up all the wins and championships. Without a dominant rider, you have multiple wins and champions, and thus a deeper field.

People forget how dominant Reed was in 04 MX, despite not being referred to by anyone as an MX rider. Even against Windham, he won most races by a good 10-20 seconds and by going 1-1. Oh. Except he was going 2-2 and didn’t win a single moto because a guy named Ricky Carmichael was about 30 seconds ahead of him and went 24-0.

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smee113
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4/3/2023 2:55pm

Very interesting; I agree the format starts to fall apart the further you go back; IE, 125cc SX was comparatively much weak in the 80's when it was more of a pro-am class. 500cc could probably be counted the same as 250cc/450, but that could also skew the data since it would give riders in 80's more opportunities to win titles then current riders have.

4/3/2023 3:06pm

Very intersting Data, Nice work!

Question
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12/2/2023 12:25am

Ah ! Now that would be 37 points I guess ; 

1 for JCoop, 2 for Hunter, 3 for Jett, and I would give 3 points to Prado as well, won 2 mx2 and 1 mxgp titles.

Most stacked field Smile

 

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Kiernan mx
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12/3/2023 2:19pm

The only problem with this system is that 2009 was a weak year, but trying to beat 2009 Stew and Reed. That’s got to be one of the toughest challenges in sx history. I actually watched 2009 Indy sx last week. Those 2 guys honestly looked like they would be battling for a win today. They were on it. 

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12/3/2023 2:30pm
Kiernan mx wrote:
The only problem with this system is that 2009 was a weak year, but trying to beat 2009 Stew and Reed. That’s got to be one...

The only problem with this system is that 2009 was a weak year, but trying to beat 2009 Stew and Reed. That’s got to be one of the toughest challenges in sx history. I actually watched 2009 Indy sx last week. Those 2 guys honestly looked like they would be battling for a win today. They were on it. 

True but that doesn't make it a deep field. If Jett and Hunter go ride Japanese nationals they're gonna be hard to beat but that doesn't make it a strong series 

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Nighttrain
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12/3/2023 3:03pm

For perspective, I was sitting in Atlanta-Fulton  County Stadium Super Bowl of Motocross in 1978.  RIP Art Eckman.  The most “stacked” SX field was 2011.  IMG 5733.jpeg?VersionId=Bvj1LDSbSiU2115fi4PDD

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Kiernan mx
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12/4/2023 3:36am
Kiernan mx wrote:
The only problem with this system is that 2009 was a weak year, but trying to beat 2009 Stew and Reed. That’s got to be one...

The only problem with this system is that 2009 was a weak year, but trying to beat 2009 Stew and Reed. That’s got to be one of the toughest challenges in sx history. I actually watched 2009 Indy sx last week. Those 2 guys honestly looked like they would be battling for a win today. They were on it. 

crusty_xx wrote:
True but that doesn't make it a deep field. If Jett and Hunter go ride Japanese nationals they're gonna be hard to beat but that doesn't...

True but that doesn't make it a deep field. If Jett and Hunter go ride Japanese nationals they're gonna be hard to beat but that doesn't make it a strong series 

I agree, but it makes it extremely hard to be champ. The logic would work better if we judged it on the difficulty to get on the podium. Then yes, 2009 was relatively easy. But one of the hardest ever to win. 

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CPR
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12/4/2023 3:50am
Nighttrain wrote:
For perspective, I was sitting in Atlanta-Fulton  County Stadium Super Bowl of Motocross in 1978.  RIP Art Eckman.  The most “stacked” SX field was 2011.  

For perspective, I was sitting in Atlanta-Fulton  County Stadium Super Bowl of Motocross in 1978.  RIP Art Eckman.  The most “stacked” SX field was 2011.  IMG 5733.jpeg?VersionId=Bvj1LDSbSiU2115fi4PDD

2011 was pretty bloody good.

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Spoonguy
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12/4/2023 4:06am

This is so tough to figure, who's to know if there wasn't ever a Carmichael, or Stewart riders like Ferry or Windham would have been dominant and lesser esteemed competitors would have upped their game? This may be me being a grumpy old man, but Ward, Johnson, Bailey, Omara, Barnett, Hannah, era riders seemed tougher than today's riders.

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Joey Bridges
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12/4/2023 4:51am
Spoonguy wrote:
This is so tough to figure, who's to know if there wasn't ever a Carmichael, or Stewart riders like Ferry or Windham would have been dominant...

This is so tough to figure, who's to know if there wasn't ever a Carmichael, or Stewart riders like Ferry or Windham would have been dominant and lesser esteemed competitors would have upped their game? This may be me being a grumpy old man, but Ward, Johnson, Bailey, Omara, Barnett, Hannah, era riders seemed tougher than today's riders.

You left out Rex Staten.

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SCIENCE
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12/4/2023 7:38am
Spoonguy wrote:
This is so tough to figure, who's to know if there wasn't ever a Carmichael, or Stewart riders like Ferry or Windham would have been dominant...

This is so tough to figure, who's to know if there wasn't ever a Carmichael, or Stewart riders like Ferry or Windham would have been dominant and lesser esteemed competitors would have upped their game? This may be me being a grumpy old man, but Ward, Johnson, Bailey, Omara, Barnett, Hannah, era riders seemed tougher than today's riders.

RC's toughness would hold in any era.  You are correct that the early 80's was tougher and more stacked with HOF racers. In '84 for example, 8 out of the top 10 are Hall-of Famers.  O'Mara, Johnson, Bailey, Ward, Lechien, Barnett, Glover.& Hannah.  6 different winners in 17 races.  Earlier 80's had Bell, Sun, Howerton, Schultz etc in top 10 and winning races/titles.  Field is strong now but not this level.  Eli, Ken & Jett are shoo ins.  Few others led by Sexton and Coop may get there.  

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Spudinki45
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12/4/2023 7:56am
Spoonguy wrote:
This is so tough to figure, who's to know if there wasn't ever a Carmichael, or Stewart riders like Ferry or Windham would have been dominant...

This is so tough to figure, who's to know if there wasn't ever a Carmichael, or Stewart riders like Ferry or Windham would have been dominant and lesser esteemed competitors would have upped their game? This may be me being a grumpy old man, but Ward, Johnson, Bailey, Omara, Barnett, Hannah, era riders seemed tougher than today's riders.

SCIENCE wrote:
RC's toughness would hold in any era.  You are correct that the early 80's was tougher and more stacked with HOF racers. In '84 for example, 8...

RC's toughness would hold in any era.  You are correct that the early 80's was tougher and more stacked with HOF racers. In '84 for example, 8 out of the top 10 are Hall-of Famers.  O'Mara, Johnson, Bailey, Ward, Lechien, Barnett, Glover.& Hannah.  6 different winners in 17 races.  Earlier 80's had Bell, Sun, Howerton, Schultz etc in top 10 and winning races/titles.  Field is strong now but not this level.  Eli, Ken & Jett are shoo ins.  Few others led by Sexton and Coop may get there.  

Curious to see why you have Roczen above Sexton? Sexton is the SX champ, has way more race wins last year, and was faster than Kenny pretty much every round in SX and SMX (aside from Chicago which was more MX style)

kxking
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12/4/2023 8:04am

Didn't Kenny beat Sexton 4 of the 6 motos in SMX?

12/4/2023 8:43am
kxking wrote:

Didn't Kenny beat Sexton 4 of the 6 motos in SMX?

Didn't Sexton go 1-1 at the first SMX round?...

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SCIENCE
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12/4/2023 8:52am
Spoonguy wrote:
This is so tough to figure, who's to know if there wasn't ever a Carmichael, or Stewart riders like Ferry or Windham would have been dominant...

This is so tough to figure, who's to know if there wasn't ever a Carmichael, or Stewart riders like Ferry or Windham would have been dominant and lesser esteemed competitors would have upped their game? This may be me being a grumpy old man, but Ward, Johnson, Bailey, Omara, Barnett, Hannah, era riders seemed tougher than today's riders.

SCIENCE wrote:
RC's toughness would hold in any era.  You are correct that the early 80's was tougher and more stacked with HOF racers. In '84 for example, 8...

RC's toughness would hold in any era.  You are correct that the early 80's was tougher and more stacked with HOF racers. In '84 for example, 8 out of the top 10 are Hall-of Famers.  O'Mara, Johnson, Bailey, Ward, Lechien, Barnett, Glover.& Hannah.  6 different winners in 17 races.  Earlier 80's had Bell, Sun, Howerton, Schultz etc in top 10 and winning races/titles.  Field is strong now but not this level.  Eli, Ken & Jett are shoo ins.  Few others led by Sexton and Coop may get there.  

Spudinki45 wrote:
Curious to see why you have Roczen above Sexton? Sexton is the SX champ, has way more race wins last year, and was faster than Kenny...

Curious to see why you have Roczen above Sexton? Sexton is the SX champ, has way more race wins last year, and was faster than Kenny pretty much every round in SX and SMX (aside from Chicago which was more MX style)

Kenny's total body of work I guess counting MXGP. If he retired today he'd be in.  I like Chase and will be pulling for him to win this season indoors and out.  Betting he'll be in Hall of Fame when it's all said and done.  

BTW i don't put a ton of stock in the SMX races.  Great racing and awesome to watch.  Good on the riders for getting paid$$.  In the end it is not SX or MX.  Those two series stand on their own and are much more challenging to win.

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kxking
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12/4/2023 1:30pm Edited Date/Time 12/4/2023 1:31pm
kxking wrote:

Didn't Kenny beat Sexton 4 of the 6 motos in SMX?

Rosso391 wrote:

Didn't Sexton go 1-1 at the first SMX round?...

Actually correct, it was 3-3 for SMX

WowWowWubzy
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12/4/2023 1:47pm
Nighttrain wrote:
For perspective, I was sitting in Atlanta-Fulton  County Stadium Super Bowl of Motocross in 1978.  RIP Art Eckman.  The most “stacked” SX field was 2011.  

For perspective, I was sitting in Atlanta-Fulton  County Stadium Super Bowl of Motocross in 1978.  RIP Art Eckman.  The most “stacked” SX field was 2011.  IMG 5733.jpeg?VersionId=Bvj1LDSbSiU2115fi4PDD

A1 2024 should have 4 premier class SX champs on the line also. Pretty stacked.

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