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Then how do you explain the bikes that all the media rode awhile back?
How did they come up with those?
What is the "long term play" here for them benefit from a scam?
You really think they banked enough cash from some $100 down payments to make all this worth it?
Please, explain your theory further.
Check his latest story on IG. Sounds like he's having a good time.
Not a single unit...nothing even shipped. Stark Varg is the Fyre Fest of motocross.
Explain. How is Stark Varg the Fyre Fest of motocross? This is not the first time you have made that reference so surely you have put some thought into this comparison.
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Yeah I don't think there's any big conspiracy or anything. Occam's razor and all that. Whatever they did just gives it that composite look and you can see why someone would think it's fake.
I'll give it a shot. I think the turtle neck guy absconded with the $1.7 million in customer deposits, bought a yacht, and retired to the Mediterranean leaving behind only a cardboard cutout of himself and a promo unit with empty battery and motor cases. I also believe the moon landing was fake, aliens built the pyramids, and JFK, Jr. is still alive.
About the aliens building the pyramids,......................
Well you just might be correct on 3 of the 4
Investors. Read about the Nikola scandal.
Nikola never produced a single product - only doctored videos.
It was a public company, the fraud was a result of manipulated share price. Stark is privately owned currently.
Even in an alternative universe - certain rules apply, namely that if one is going to use a well known example in an attempt to prove some kind of point, at least try & conjure up one that's remotely relevant.
Stark has investors. Nikola bilked investors. Doesn't matter if public or private, that's the game.
Damn, some of the post here lately… I thought I accidentally clicked on a flat earthers forum.
Don‘t get me wrong, I don’t mind the trolling, it’s fun. But always remember the golden rule:
Never go full retard!
The ride impression bikes? Ya they built, or had built, some expensive specials. Not that hard for someone well resourced and with engineering nouse; say the owner of a decent aerospace machine shop. You could build a similar special inside 12 months. Suitable motors are readily available, making a custom battery is straightforward and a steel frame (including vacuum formed custom plastics) is not a hard thing to fabricate. The control strategies and the software to charge and to run the thing could be the trickiest. Of course, productionising it to make thousands of units in a short time is more challenging.
I think that Wass possibly sees himself as a tech entrepreneur whose mission was to create an exciting brand, 'STARK VARG', with the product- the bike- being somewhat secondary, and down the road. The major claims about a dial up 80 hp, and 'the best MX bike ever', and just enough tech detail, along with the specials, gained everyone's attention. The hype and huge interest probably allowed him to go to investors, venture capital providers, banks for the big millions required to productionise volume. It is the sort of concept woke bankers love. The $100 deposits were likely back of the couch change. If it didn't work out, big deal, the deposits were just expressions of interest ("You are on a list and we will contact you to possibly offer a contract to purchase a product") not binding contracts to supply, and the company directors could pay themselves fat consultancy fees. The other possibility is he tried to sell the whole kit and caboodle holus bolus to private equity as a going concern, for say a cool billion, but was unable to. Theranos, Elizabeth Holmes comes to mind.
Of course, all the above is pure speculation and he may soon start delivering stunningly good bikes.
Funny about flat earthers. Battery motorcycles have been around longer than combustion engine bikes, but have never made inroads. The Li-Ion batteries being used are dead end now after 30 years and no more than incremental improvement in storage density is happening, nor is there any feasible step change in technology on the horizon. Solid electrolyte devices are plagued with seemingly insoluble problems, and still in the labs. Propulsion motor efficiency has plateaued, and for both the motors and the batteries the high quality materials required make competition machines are extremely expensive.
Meanwhile, in the real world, IC engine efficiency is steadily improving, fuel energy storage density is 10 or 11 times that of the absolute best batteries, and synthetic fuel development is making big strides.
Ill be posting my thoughts and feedback in a youtube video when i get back from this trip. Until then, ill be posting little teaser clips and pics throughout the day. Doing another full ride day today (wednesday) at the same track. Keep in mind, we're 6hrs ahead of east coast USA and 9hr ahead of West coast USA.
In short, this bike is honestly next level and overcomes pretty much all of the shortfalls the Alta MXR currently has. This will absolutely be the bike that will out perform 450s on a motocross track.
Having the opportunity to ride with Sebastian Tortelli and the rest of the gang has been quite an amazing experience.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqWcqOhrYnD/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Great another vid with probably the same bikes as last time and on a dry as a bone track,let's see a few laps round a Dutch track in the winter see how that battery last
Your theory seems pretty logical. I'm not saying that it has teeth but it would make sense to why all of the constant delays and lack of information.
Pit Row
Funny how despite this thread being named "stark varg reviews" there are really 0 reviews, yet 650 posts.
It appears that Big Foot and a fully whipped Triumph are the only creatures more elusive in the wild. The search continues. Highly compelling...
The video above confirms, watching an outdoor national or supercross with those things will be terrible. Even the electric 50 class at supercross is a snooze fest now.
You didn’t see the assembly by chance did you? This whole “the bike is sick, here’s some video of me riding it” thing is getting comical.
That's what I was going to ask, did you get to go to the factory and take pictures of completed bikes? Or do they only have the 4 staged bikes on the assembly line still?
What’s your point? What’s the message regarding the Varg?
Do you want to say that a battery powered motocross bike will not work because of energy density and motor efficiency? Even the Alta proved that that’s not true. The Varg prototype (which you say could be a hack job by a machine shop) did 20 min on a supercross track with Dylan Woodcock.
Electric motorcycles before ICE motorcycles? Can you name one? Thought the Daimler Reitwagen was the first motorcycle.
Electric motor efficiency has plateaued bc it’s near a 100%, haha.
ICE efficiency is near the maximum btw. Medium speed diesel engines are the top dogs and half a percent is already a big step in development. Alternative fuels like H2, ammonia and methanol are coming, but not for cars or motorcycles. Efuels are in the development phase, but nobody is pumping out the volume that it has any significance. Or do you have different info?
I've avoided posting in these electric bike threads for years, it seems to bring out the whackos.
I got my first hit of an electric bike in 2016 - I was hanging with Hill quite a bit and he had a couple Alta's, and I was a part of several test days with Alta and Enzo getting them dialed in.
I went to Geneva SX with Josh and Alta - we were delivered the only Alta in Europe at the time: an enduro model. With a suspension swap, plastic change and quick remap from the Alta guys, I saw this civilian play bike turn into an absolute animal that was pulling holeshots all day over Carmichael on a stock RMZ450.
We would come back from a day at the track, hop on the Alta's and cruise the neighborhood to go get food or find some jumps. We would ride by people walking their dogs and they would wave and smile because they didn't hear anything. I would always trip out because we were literally just riding a supercross track on these bike hours before, but it got treated the same as an electric beach cruiser in California. Simply starting your bike in a neighborhood gets some salty looks usually.
We spent a lot of time on the Alta's, but we spent double the time on 450's. Most days at the track were on a 450 because moto length was limited (battery got hot in 10-12 minutes) and charge times took a while. Taking an electric bike to ride the hills or dunes isn't even a thought. The Alta's acted as pitbikes at places like that.
On the track, it's a pretty special feeling. You really do feel connected to the throttle, traction is much improved on hardpack conditions and you could cut low in corners like on a 450 despite lower "hp" numbers.
I've always felt that gas and electric bikes aren't meant to replace one another, but compliment each other. I believe there is a time and place for both, and some will find the electric bike to check all the boxes.
I am optimistic about the Stark bike itself - Josh says it does everything we loved about the Alta better, and the chassis is much improved over the Alta. The company itself kind of annoys me with their approach - they're trying to go the "tech company" route and it looks cheesy and unstable from the outside looking in. I wouldn't last long in an investor pitch meeting with that Anton dude, that's for sure.
I definitely didn't put any money down on a pre-order for a Stark, but I will purchase one when they are available to compliment my 450's.
This is how the Alta was delivered to us - I started laughing hysterically, we had no idea it was showing up like that
The overarching point about the Stark is that so far, third year in, it's mostly hypothetical.
If there is ever a production machine that can be taken from the wild and properly tested, then all the conversations will be worth having.
Do you expect this guy to shit-talk them and say “oh yeah, it’s all a fraud” while he’s on a trip with them, and has one on order?
“In their third year”
A little misleading, since the bike was announced December 2021. It’s been a year and 3 months.
Not at all. it’s a yes or no question.
Looks like they're still "endurance testing." So I assume that means not yet in production? Not many details in that article either, just more hype. Maybe they'll be successful and we will all eat crow, but the way they're going about their social media and articles reminds me of Theranos as others have said. I think more transparency from Stark and the media would help the company's reputation and answer questions many of us skeptics have.
https://gatedrop.com/stark-varg-update-endurance-testing/#.ZCQ6WHbMJD8
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