How to get people out of C class?

Edited Date/Time 11/25/2022 10:17am
We have an issue in amateur racing for the Vet classes. There are guys who ride C class for their whole life. C class is for newer but not beginners. Just looking at people’s ideas to get riders to move up. Even the definition of “Novice” proves my point.

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11/19/2022 11:21am
I don’t think C class matches your definition of “newer but not beginners.” I’ve been riding since I was 13 but I’ve never had the speed or mentality to hang it out there like a lot of the B guys do. I also don’t have the funds or free time to get out to ride each weekend to get to B level of speed. Not a beginner for D class, not fast enough for B class, so C serves its purpose for me.

Having a C class championship at Loretta’s, however, doesn’t make sense to me.
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ATKpilot99
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11/19/2022 11:25am
Around here they lump vet B/C together into one class . Maybe that's the answer.
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FreshTopEnd
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11/19/2022 11:29am Edited Date/Time 11/19/2022 11:31am
As one with lots of experience when I could race, the cold truth is that people in C mostly belong there unless it is a big event tempting cherrypickers. The people who are good enough will move up (I never did), and so it really comes down to who is the fastest slow guy. There are people who can get out of C after one race and others like me who would be lifers, always treasure a rare C trophy, and enjoy every race where pain wasn't involved.

A beginner class should be for beginners. I get that some races don't have the capacity to have that as a separate class these days, but it used to be common and welcome.
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Cygrace74
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11/19/2022 11:33am
It’s never going to be agreed on but a vet B rider should actually be a B class speed. The vet class should only be for racing people of a similar age to avoid young guys being risky. If the person can not go to 250 C or youth C and top 3 consistently and win they’re not a B rider. But like the rest of the country there will be Vet A and Vet B riders who can’t win a C class moto and they get to walk around and tell people they’re an A rider like it matters
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The Shop

TahoeVetMX
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11/19/2022 11:39am
This is always an interesting question. It is different depending on the event or track even in some cases. Maybe, one idea would be for the track to limit the C class to what they are allowed to jump? Make certain jumps off limits is what I am saying. I have seen guys stay in the C class even after winning the race for 2 or 2 years in a row. However, there are some cases where if you moved up there is a big triple jump that all of the B Class riders are doing that you do not want to do. Some riders are cool and just want to ride at a mellow pace and they do not care about winning. There are many dynamics at play here. I agree there needs to be some adjustments and I am always willing to listen to ideas out there.

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11/19/2022 11:48am
Comes down to the promoter. When I was racing a lot we had the issue of multiple guys racing 250 and 450C for multiple years, multiple series’ each year and continuously winning just to make contingency. They told the promoter if they were moved up they would stop racing with them. Promoter never moved them up. Frustrated so many people that a few stopped racing with that promoter. So instead of losing the sandbaggers, we lost legit C guys over it.

And for the record, our C class isn’t what it is in other areas.
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Bruce372
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11/19/2022 11:52am
It would take me a year at a training facility, personal trainer, mechanic and and a prescription for growth hormone and steroids to get me out the C class.

Should I start a go fund me like other aspiring talents?
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11/19/2022 11:57am Edited Date/Time 11/19/2022 12:35pm
We have an issue in amateur racing for the Vet classes. There are guys who ride C class for their whole life. C class is for...
We have an issue in amateur racing for the Vet classes. There are guys who ride C class for their whole life. C class is for newer but not beginners. Just looking at people’s ideas to get riders to move up. Even the definition of “Novice” proves my point.

No "we" dont have a Issue, YOU have a issue because you keep bringing it up and whining about it. Who cares if a vet rider stays in the C class or B class or any class.
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whips
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11/19/2022 12:06pm
At the local track here if you can jump the jumps your not a novice, up to B class, C class is for the first year riders really
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Johnny Ringo
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11/19/2022 12:09pm
Make it easy. 250 fast/250 slow. Call it good
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uncledaddy69
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11/19/2022 12:16pm
Last race I did at Glen Helen, multiple 250 novice riders had faster lap times than the 250 intermediate winner.
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TahoeVetMX
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11/19/2022 12:19pm
Make it easy. 250 fast/250 slow. Call it good
I certainly agree with less classes! Age classes like 40+ Fast and 40+ slow then 50+ Fast and 50+ Slow and then just an Open Vet. That means everyone has a class really.
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11/19/2022 12:20pm
whips wrote:
At the local track here if you can jump the jumps your not a novice, up to B class, C class is for the first year...
At the local track here if you can jump the jumps your not a novice, up to B class, C class is for the first year riders really
Here the beginner class is jumping most of, if not all the jumps. What works for one area won’t work in others.
yak651
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Fantasy
11/19/2022 12:20pm
Make it easy. 250 fast/250 slow. Call it good
Ha that would be awesome if they named that for LL. I’m the national slow class champion. That might actual make some people move up!
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racin mason
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11/19/2022 12:22pm
Make it easy. 250 fast/250 slow. Call it good
You have a good point. Who would want to tell their friends that the won the slow class.
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chump6784
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11/19/2022 12:31pm
Send like sand bagging is kind of ingrained in the racing culture in the US. Over here in Australia its pretty much expected that if you top 3 in a class then the next year you move up. Bigger series that use transponders work on lap times. Say top 5 of vet c are running with the back to middle of vet b then those riders are moved to vet b the following year. Or, if a rider signs up for vet c and is running right up in vet b times then that rider is moved up for the next round.
It just comes down to the promoter and race stewards to do their job and grade riders accordingly
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Jrey2
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11/19/2022 12:38pm
250 fast 250 slow for Loretta’s, they the racing done in one day😂😂
Mr. Afterbar
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11/19/2022 12:42pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2022 12:44pm
Cygrace74 wrote:
It’s never going to be agreed on but a vet B rider should actually be a B class speed. The vet class should only be for...
It’s never going to be agreed on but a vet B rider should actually be a B class speed. The vet class should only be for racing people of a similar age to avoid young guys being risky. If the person can not go to 250 C or youth C and top 3 consistently and win they’re not a B rider. But like the rest of the country there will be Vet A and Vet B riders who can’t win a C class moto and they get to walk around and tell people they’re an A rider like it matters
Are you a vet rider? I’m willing to bet that you aren’t. When I was younger, I didn’t pay much attention to the vet classes and had a slightly similar view, although not as negative as yours. Truth is, many vet riders are just as fast as the equal class non vet rider. They may not look the same as you get more efficient and smarter the older you get. I’m a Vet A rider. Actually not that far from 40, and I would definitely not get last in the regular A class nor would I get beat by many B riders on a local level. C class? You’re dreaming.
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11/19/2022 12:51pm
I think all beginners should ride for free. Only the winner would get a trophy, a little pink one with Beginner winner on it. The phony beginners will move to Novice to chase the trophies.
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SoCalMX70
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11/19/2022 1:06pm
With OTHG (a 30+ vet racing club), we have an advancement points system. Additionally, part of our Race Director's responsibilities include making sure folks are in the right class. People are bumped well ahead of pointing out if they are winning by massive margins.

A brand new member's first 2 races are considered "evaluation". They are watched closely and placed in the appropriate class going forward.

We even monitor non-members who occasionally show up. This is probably the hardest issue to deal with, but thanks to our Race Director's hard work, 2022 was probably our best year as far as keeping sandbaggers ("trophy chasers" as we sometimes call them) from ruining what would otherwise be great competitive racing.

With all that said, it is never perfect. There are a few weird people out there that like to game the system as much as possible. I've seen guys blitz a few laps to a massive lead, look around, then slow down accordingly. Then there's guys that want to do a "re-evaluation", where we allow 4 races to reclassify them, but this is typically reserved to folks who have been out awhile due to injury. Or, they want to stay at their skill level then move down an age group or 2... It's always something! However, we do our best to stick to our well laid out rules and be even handed in those decisions.

I'll simply never understand the mentality of sandbaggers. How is one "proud" of racing below their skill? I could never get a sense of accomplishment from that. I bumped myself out of Novice at the beginning of the year after winning my first OTHG National event. I was done! I finished in the back of intermediate the rest of the year and I'm 100% good with it... I'll get faster (well, once my knee is healed...).
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Dirt.Squirt
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11/19/2022 1:07pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2022 1:09pm
There’s a guy around here that got top ten at vet nationals in 35 b last year and won 35 c the year prior but continues to cherry pick 30 and 25 C locally

Make it make sense
DEMONDAVE
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11/19/2022 1:09pm
Easy beg 3 wins go to Nov 3 wins go to int 3 more go to exp
Track official watch’s beg class for guys hitting every jump and scrubing
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studworx
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11/19/2022 1:15pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2022 1:16pm
C, B, A outside of local club racing is treated as A, AA and AAA in rep sports. As it is supposed to be.

A, AA and AAA players are all rep players, who
would all be a fair bit better than local house league players. The A baseball player would be one of, or the best player at a houseleague game. Just as a national C class racer would be the fastest, or one of the fastest at a local event (even if they use the C, B and A system).

Local clubs using the C, B and A system are the ones that created the issue of thinking C class is supposed to be a beginner class. Local C class is not comparable to C class in a national event.
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11/19/2022 1:35pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2022 1:38pm
You think it’s bad now, you should have seen what the C class looked like back in the 90s when Yamaha was was paying $500 a class for a win in the C class! If you bought your bike at North County Yamaha and ran their graphics kit, they would double your contingency in one class per day. If you won 125 and 250C on the same day, it would be a $1500 pay day! I remember a GFI race at Perris when McGrath’s roommate Lew hucked a huge jump in the C practice that Phil Lawrence passed on jumping in the A practice. Phil jumped it in the race, but Lew hit it first. That same year, one of the MX magazines listed the top 10 YZ bucks earners for the year. As I recall, Lew was in the top 3 right behind Jeromy Buehl.
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erik_94COBRA
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11/19/2022 1:40pm
Bruce372 wrote:
It would take me a year at a training facility, personal trainer, mechanic and and a prescription for growth hormone and steroids to get me out...
It would take me a year at a training facility, personal trainer, mechanic and and a prescription for growth hormone and steroids to get me out the C class.

Should I start a go fund me like other aspiring talents?
Onlyfans.
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11/19/2022 1:45pm
Move up to B and place better.. that’s what happened to me anyways. I was always a top 3 guy in C, and won my first intermediate race
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11/19/2022 2:28pm
*No Loretta Lynn's "C" classes, period.
*No "C" class contingency, period.
*No local "C" class Champions.
*No "C" classes on amateur day at nationals.
*No "C" classes at any amateur national.
*Strict "point out" or "time out" rules.
*As the "C" class is usually the largest, have a "Win one get moved up" rule.

These things will never happen, but you asked "How to get people out of the "C" class".
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ElliotB16
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11/19/2022 2:36pm
Eliminate C class from Loretta’s and you won’t have all these fast riders staying down. It’s the only reason they do. It puts a hurting on local racing when they’re more focused on Loretta’s than racing their local series.

That will never happen because it’s too much of a money maker.
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11/19/2022 2:54pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2022 9:33pm
I was mid pack C grade for 45 years, some people just don't have "it".

Our organising body are quick to identify those who should go up, and grade them so.
It was the organising body that classified riders, not the riders themselves.

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DaBaum44
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11/19/2022 3:19pm
I think District 14 does it right with a 25+ Vetsport novice class. The way I view it, this class groups me with similar riders, who have been riding and racing dirtbikes for years, but just don't have the speed, time, mentality, etc., to move up to the B classes or who don't want to race against teenagers who just send it with little to no caution.

I typically only do the District 14 races at RedBud and the 25+ Vetsport class always seems to be packed. Most of the time it is split into two separate motos.

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