Discussion for those that have ordered a Stark Varg..everyone else go away!

183Matt
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183Matt 10/27/2022 11:48am
10/27/2022 11:48am
I hope it doesn’t turn out like Elio either, but I’m worried it may.
idworx
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idworx 10/27/2022 12:47pm
10/27/2022 12:47pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment...
Im sure that they will prove to be 15 seconds a lap faster. At what point does you guys’ $100 “investment” become a firm $14,000 commitment? Do you have to pay in full before they ship?
H.E.penyypacker432 wrote:
These bikes are 14k?? Dam. I bought a 2018 Nissan Frontier off the lot for 14k lol
#434 wrote:
You’re right! Damn, in 2010 I bought a new 150SX for 5.600€. However, let’s play around with some numbers: A 450 SXF is 11.700€ here in...
You’re right! Damn, in 2010 I bought a new 150SX for 5.600€. However, let’s play around with some numbers:

A 450 SXF is 11.700€ here in Germany and my 60 HP Stark will come in at 13.000€.
Let’s say I put 100 hours on both and nothing engine-related breaks:
- KTM: ~500 liters of fuel: 1000€; ~20 liters of oil: 300€; 50 air filters changes: 250€ —> around 1.500€
- Stark: 8 kWh per hour riding at 25 cents/kWh —> 200€
Takeway message: dirt bike riding costs money and after a 100 hours the higher price of the Stark amortizes.
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the much better efficiency of the e-motor about 3 liters. How far does a moderately fast mxer go with only 3 liters of fuel? Yeah, the new SXF 450 for 2024 will have a 3.5 liter fuel tank (to save weight), more than enough for a 30 minute moto...
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OrangeJuice158 10/27/2022 1:21pm
10/27/2022 1:21pm
H.E.penyypacker432 wrote:
These bikes are 14k?? Dam. I bought a 2018 Nissan Frontier off the lot for 14k lol
#434 wrote:
You’re right! Damn, in 2010 I bought a new 150SX for 5.600€. However, let’s play around with some numbers: A 450 SXF is 11.700€ here in...
You’re right! Damn, in 2010 I bought a new 150SX for 5.600€. However, let’s play around with some numbers:

A 450 SXF is 11.700€ here in Germany and my 60 HP Stark will come in at 13.000€.
Let’s say I put 100 hours on both and nothing engine-related breaks:
- KTM: ~500 liters of fuel: 1000€; ~20 liters of oil: 300€; 50 air filters changes: 250€ —> around 1.500€
- Stark: 8 kWh per hour riding at 25 cents/kWh —> 200€
Takeway message: dirt bike riding costs money and after a 100 hours the higher price of the Stark amortizes.
idworx wrote:
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the...
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the much better efficiency of the e-motor about 3 liters. How far does a moderately fast mxer go with only 3 liters of fuel? Yeah, the new SXF 450 for 2024 will have a 3.5 liter fuel tank (to save weight), more than enough for a 30 minute moto...
It’s not really an apple to apples comparison due to the regen though. You’re also barely ever pulling 45kW.
Just picked up an EM ePure Race trials bike for riding the trail system on our property. It’s a bit of an ideal situation because you are generally either ascending or descending, so you can really see the regen doing work on some of the long descents. It has a 1.875 kWh battery and ends up having about 1.5x the range of our Vertigo trials bikes (300cc FI 2-stroke), which has a 2.3L tank.
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#434
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#434 10/27/2022 1:46pm
10/27/2022 1:46pm
H.E.penyypacker432 wrote:
These bikes are 14k?? Dam. I bought a 2018 Nissan Frontier off the lot for 14k lol
#434 wrote:
You’re right! Damn, in 2010 I bought a new 150SX for 5.600€. However, let’s play around with some numbers: A 450 SXF is 11.700€ here in...
You’re right! Damn, in 2010 I bought a new 150SX for 5.600€. However, let’s play around with some numbers:

A 450 SXF is 11.700€ here in Germany and my 60 HP Stark will come in at 13.000€.
Let’s say I put 100 hours on both and nothing engine-related breaks:
- KTM: ~500 liters of fuel: 1000€; ~20 liters of oil: 300€; 50 air filters changes: 250€ —> around 1.500€
- Stark: 8 kWh per hour riding at 25 cents/kWh —> 200€
Takeway message: dirt bike riding costs money and after a 100 hours the higher price of the Stark amortizes.
idworx wrote:
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the...
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the much better efficiency of the e-motor about 3 liters. How far does a moderately fast mxer go with only 3 liters of fuel? Yeah, the new SXF 450 for 2024 will have a 3.5 liter fuel tank (to save weight), more than enough for a 30 minute moto...
I can only go with what they say, which is one charge (6kWh) will last about 45 min with an average rider on the bike.
Efficiency should be around 90%, whereas a normal dirt bike is in the range of 15%, max 20%.

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idworx
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idworx 10/27/2022 2:37pm
10/27/2022 2:37pm Edited Date/Time 10/27/2022 2:40pm
#434 wrote:
You’re right! Damn, in 2010 I bought a new 150SX for 5.600€. However, let’s play around with some numbers: A 450 SXF is 11.700€ here in...
You’re right! Damn, in 2010 I bought a new 150SX for 5.600€. However, let’s play around with some numbers:

A 450 SXF is 11.700€ here in Germany and my 60 HP Stark will come in at 13.000€.
Let’s say I put 100 hours on both and nothing engine-related breaks:
- KTM: ~500 liters of fuel: 1000€; ~20 liters of oil: 300€; 50 air filters changes: 250€ —> around 1.500€
- Stark: 8 kWh per hour riding at 25 cents/kWh —> 200€
Takeway message: dirt bike riding costs money and after a 100 hours the higher price of the Stark amortizes.
idworx wrote:
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the...
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the much better efficiency of the e-motor about 3 liters. How far does a moderately fast mxer go with only 3 liters of fuel? Yeah, the new SXF 450 for 2024 will have a 3.5 liter fuel tank (to save weight), more than enough for a 30 minute moto...
#434 wrote:
I can only go with what they say, which is one charge (6kWh) will last about 45 min with an average rider on the bike. Efficiency...
I can only go with what they say, which is one charge (6kWh) will last about 45 min with an average rider on the bike.
Efficiency should be around 90%, whereas a normal dirt bike is in the range of 15%, max 20%.
It is not possible with only 6kWh...
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OrangeJuice158 10/27/2022 2:48pm
10/27/2022 2:48pm
idworx wrote:
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the...
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the much better efficiency of the e-motor about 3 liters. How far does a moderately fast mxer go with only 3 liters of fuel? Yeah, the new SXF 450 for 2024 will have a 3.5 liter fuel tank (to save weight), more than enough for a 30 minute moto...
#434 wrote:
I can only go with what they say, which is one charge (6kWh) will last about 45 min with an average rider on the bike. Efficiency...
I can only go with what they say, which is one charge (6kWh) will last about 45 min with an average rider on the bike.
Efficiency should be around 90%, whereas a normal dirt bike is in the range of 15%, max 20%.
idworx wrote:
It is not possible with only 6kWh...
Why do you think so?
chrisgg90 10/27/2022 2:52pm
10/27/2022 2:52pm
I would love to be able to afford one, I think they will be an amazing bike. Really like the gypsy tales podcast with Anton Wass. Being able to go ride in the middle of a town would be awesome or able to ride in a field close to other houses and not bother anyone, weather we like it or not, it is the future.
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#434
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#434 10/27/2022 3:05pm
10/27/2022 3:05pm Edited Date/Time 10/27/2022 3:05pm
idworx wrote:
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the...
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the much better efficiency of the e-motor about 3 liters. How far does a moderately fast mxer go with only 3 liters of fuel? Yeah, the new SXF 450 for 2024 will have a 3.5 liter fuel tank (to save weight), more than enough for a 30 minute moto...
#434 wrote:
I can only go with what they say, which is one charge (6kWh) will last about 45 min with an average rider on the bike. Efficiency...
I can only go with what they say, which is one charge (6kWh) will last about 45 min with an average rider on the bike.
Efficiency should be around 90%, whereas a normal dirt bike is in the range of 15%, max 20%.
idworx wrote:
It is not possible with only 6kWh...
Okay, if you say so
#434
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#434 10/27/2022 3:06pm
10/27/2022 3:06pm
#434 wrote:
You’re right! Damn, in 2010 I bought a new 150SX for 5.600€. However, let’s play around with some numbers: A 450 SXF is 11.700€ here in...
You’re right! Damn, in 2010 I bought a new 150SX for 5.600€. However, let’s play around with some numbers:

A 450 SXF is 11.700€ here in Germany and my 60 HP Stark will come in at 13.000€.
Let’s say I put 100 hours on both and nothing engine-related breaks:
- KTM: ~500 liters of fuel: 1000€; ~20 liters of oil: 300€; 50 air filters changes: 250€ —> around 1.500€
- Stark: 8 kWh per hour riding at 25 cents/kWh —> 200€
Takeway message: dirt bike riding costs money and after a 100 hours the higher price of the Stark amortizes.
idworx wrote:
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the...
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the much better efficiency of the e-motor about 3 liters. How far does a moderately fast mxer go with only 3 liters of fuel? Yeah, the new SXF 450 for 2024 will have a 3.5 liter fuel tank (to save weight), more than enough for a 30 minute moto...
OrangeJuice158 wrote:
It’s not really an apple to apples comparison due to the regen though. You’re also barely ever pulling 45kW. Just picked up an EM ePure Race...
It’s not really an apple to apples comparison due to the regen though. You’re also barely ever pulling 45kW.
Just picked up an EM ePure Race trials bike for riding the trail system on our property. It’s a bit of an ideal situation because you are generally either ascending or descending, so you can really see the regen doing work on some of the long descents. It has a 1.875 kWh battery and ends up having about 1.5x the range of our Vertigo trials bikes (300cc FI 2-stroke), which has a 2.3L tank.
They have regeneration!?! That’s cool!
OrangeJuice158 10/27/2022 3:08pm
10/27/2022 3:08pm
idworx wrote:
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the...
8 kWh per hour? With an engine that can deliver 45 kW?? That would be like using 1 liter of fuel per hour or with the much better efficiency of the e-motor about 3 liters. How far does a moderately fast mxer go with only 3 liters of fuel? Yeah, the new SXF 450 for 2024 will have a 3.5 liter fuel tank (to save weight), more than enough for a 30 minute moto...
OrangeJuice158 wrote:
It’s not really an apple to apples comparison due to the regen though. You’re also barely ever pulling 45kW. Just picked up an EM ePure Race...
It’s not really an apple to apples comparison due to the regen though. You’re also barely ever pulling 45kW.
Just picked up an EM ePure Race trials bike for riding the trail system on our property. It’s a bit of an ideal situation because you are generally either ascending or descending, so you can really see the regen doing work on some of the long descents. It has a 1.875 kWh battery and ends up having about 1.5x the range of our Vertigo trials bikes (300cc FI 2-stroke), which has a 2.3L tank.
#434 wrote:
They have regeneration!?! That’s cool!
On the ePure?
#434
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#434 10/27/2022 3:48pm
10/27/2022 3:48pm
OrangeJuice158 wrote:
It’s not really an apple to apples comparison due to the regen though. You’re also barely ever pulling 45kW. Just picked up an EM ePure Race...
It’s not really an apple to apples comparison due to the regen though. You’re also barely ever pulling 45kW.
Just picked up an EM ePure Race trials bike for riding the trail system on our property. It’s a bit of an ideal situation because you are generally either ascending or descending, so you can really see the regen doing work on some of the long descents. It has a 1.875 kWh battery and ends up having about 1.5x the range of our Vertigo trials bikes (300cc FI 2-stroke), which has a 2.3L tank.
#434 wrote:
They have regeneration!?! That’s cool!
OrangeJuice158 wrote:
On the ePure?
I checked the homepage and couldn’t find anything about regen. Doesn’t matter, looks fun!
How is it compared to the standard trails bike?

Based on your experience 1 kWh would equal 1.8 l of fuel. How much power difference is between the bikes?
cmotodad
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cmotodad 10/27/2022 4:13pm
10/27/2022 4:13pm
I have a couple DIY ebikes I have built with the help of a friend. Regen braking is a touchy adjustment. The amount of regen compared to the amount of braking it creates is unbelievable. With a minimal amount of regen, you can ride without any rear brake and if you do use it, the almost instant lock up isn't beneficial to a dirt bike. Possible to set up so all you use the rear brake for is attitude adjustment in air. JMO
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OrangeJuice158 10/27/2022 9:55pm
10/27/2022 9:55pm
#434 wrote:
They have regeneration!?! That’s cool!
OrangeJuice158 wrote:
On the ePure?
#434 wrote:
I checked the homepage and couldn’t find anything about regen. Doesn’t matter, looks fun! How is it compared to the standard trails bike? Based on your...
I checked the homepage and couldn’t find anything about regen. Doesn’t matter, looks fun!
How is it compared to the standard trails bike?

Based on your experience 1 kWh would equal 1.8 l of fuel. How much power difference is between the bikes?
Yeah, the regen is pretty cool, on that bike actually there is another smaller lever above the clutch lever which allows you to modulate it, and you can get away from using the rear brake all together sometimes. Hopefully on the stark you can play around with how it behaves off throttle with the regen.
We had to go away from riding Moto bikes on our trails due to noise and ended up going to trials bikes because they are so much more quiet, and has allowed us to build more tight and techy trails. So we are not really riding them like trials bikes but maybe more hard enduroish. In those conditions it’s really really good actually, it feels a bit heavier and feels like it wears it in the front when you’re bringing the front over logs or rocks. It feels like it has more power than the 300 and the lack of shifting is amazing. It has longer range than the vertigo and would estimate it’s probably around the same as having around 3.25L tank on the same bike (based off the 2.3L tank on the vertigo). The clutch is really nice in helping feel comfortable coming from an ICE bike but I think I am tapering off on using it as I have gotten more comfy on it. The only place I am still using it is to better control power delivery in some really steep and slow areas with leaves on top, as I am still more precise with it than my right wrist.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 10/29/2022 1:39am
10/29/2022 1:39am
number six wrote:
The title of the Forbes article was as follows ; Pre-Sales For This Electric Motocross Bike Reached Almost $9 Million In 24 Hours. Here’s Why Link...
The title of the Forbes article was as follows ;
Pre-Sales For This Electric Motocross Bike Reached Almost $9 Million In 24 Hours. Here’s Why

Link ; https://www.forbes.com/sites/breannawilson/2022/03/28/pre-sales-for-this-electric-motocross-bike-reached-almost-9-million-in-24-hours-heres-why/?sh=43e2301b196b

Math.
9 million divided by the (then) sale price of 12K = 750
So .. during a 24 hour period, 750 pre-orders were received for the Stark Varg for which they collected 75K in deposits.
The 9 million statement was based on eventual payments in full, not deposits received.
If Stark Future now in fact have 17K pre-orders, thats 204 Million in sales @ 12K per unit for a bike that has yet to be delivered.
So yeah, apparently there's plenty of interest worldwide.
Dont know the capitalization expenditures of development, salaries & setting up a factory, but given those kind of numbers, Stark may be well in the black balance sheet wise in remarkably short order .. assuming they can get units delivered.

.


I guess if I see “pre-sales of $9mil” that means money in hand to me. If you say pre sales of $9 mil when it’s only 750 $100 deposits, that’s $75,000 in hand as you pointed out. weirder yet is I thought I read early on that he had 5,000 deposits in the first 24 hours. Whatever I guess. In the swap interview he said they were now at around 10,000 orders. He also said they were only planning for 5,000 units. Not sure where 17,000 is coming from. He also said they had 70 employees back then and would ramp up to about 300. They had to change factories to accommodate things. My opinion is they announced all of this a year early. I hope for all Varg “owners” sake it wasn’t 2 years early.
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#434
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#434 10/29/2022 11:22am
10/29/2022 11:22am
number six wrote:
The title of the Forbes article was as follows ; Pre-Sales For This Electric Motocross Bike Reached Almost $9 Million In 24 Hours. Here’s Why Link...
The title of the Forbes article was as follows ;
Pre-Sales For This Electric Motocross Bike Reached Almost $9 Million In 24 Hours. Here’s Why

Link ; https://www.forbes.com/sites/breannawilson/2022/03/28/pre-sales-for-this-electric-motocross-bike-reached-almost-9-million-in-24-hours-heres-why/?sh=43e2301b196b

Math.
9 million divided by the (then) sale price of 12K = 750
So .. during a 24 hour period, 750 pre-orders were received for the Stark Varg for which they collected 75K in deposits.
The 9 million statement was based on eventual payments in full, not deposits received.
If Stark Future now in fact have 17K pre-orders, thats 204 Million in sales @ 12K per unit for a bike that has yet to be delivered.
So yeah, apparently there's plenty of interest worldwide.
Dont know the capitalization expenditures of development, salaries & setting up a factory, but given those kind of numbers, Stark may be well in the black balance sheet wise in remarkably short order .. assuming they can get units delivered.

.


RaceFace58 wrote:
I guess if I see “pre-sales of $9mil” that means money in hand to me. If you say pre sales of $9 mil when it’s only...
I guess if I see “pre-sales of $9mil” that means money in hand to me. If you say pre sales of $9 mil when it’s only 750 $100 deposits, that’s $75,000 in hand as you pointed out. weirder yet is I thought I read early on that he had 5,000 deposits in the first 24 hours. Whatever I guess. In the swap interview he said they were now at around 10,000 orders. He also said they were only planning for 5,000 units. Not sure where 17,000 is coming from. He also said they had 70 employees back then and would ramp up to about 300. They had to change factories to accommodate things. My opinion is they announced all of this a year early. I hope for all Varg “owners” sake it wasn’t 2 years early.
You gotta have an agenda against eMX bikes or be pretty dumb to think that the article implies 9 mil in pre sales means money in hand…
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burn1986
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burn1986 12/17/2022 11:57pm
12/17/2022 11:57pm

Most of the video was on the Alta right?

Nate_Z
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Nate_Z 12/18/2022 6:57am
12/18/2022 6:57am

Lol, excited to see customer #1 actually ride his Varg, but just a video of him on his Alta...

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Pit Row

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Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 12/18/2022 8:09am
12/18/2022 8:09am
Nate_Z wrote:
Lol, excited to see customer #1 actually ride his Varg, but just a video of him on his Alta...

Lol, excited to see customer #1 actually ride his Varg, but just a video of him on his Alta...

What ever happened to Tortelli racing the world's fastest bike at a British national?

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#434
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#434 12/18/2022 3:23pm
12/18/2022 3:23pm
theycallmeebryan wrote:
   
 

 

Looking forward to see a video of the trip to Spain. Definitely a faster test rider than most of the journalists that went to the big test there… and at least 5 times faster than Klinger, haha

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Magoofan
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Magoofan 12/18/2022 5:05pm
12/18/2022 5:05pm

Varg announces new Supercross team....with title sponsor FTX.

 

Too soon?

 

What's the release date again?  lol

 

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Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 12/19/2022 1:24am
12/19/2022 1:24am
theycallmeebryan wrote:
   
 

 

#434 wrote:
Looking forward to see a video of the trip to Spain. Definitely a faster test rider than most of the journalists that went to the big...

Looking forward to see a video of the trip to Spain. Definitely a faster test rider than most of the journalists that went to the big test there… and at least 5 times faster than Klinger, haha

Considering they wouldn't let the bikes go for more than a few lap at a time, it worked out for the best.

#434
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#434 12/19/2022 3:14am
12/19/2022 3:14am Edited Date/Time 12/19/2022 3:15am

What would any post about the Varg be without Magoofan and Sandusky come around the corner repeating the same s..t for the thousandth time…

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#434
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#434 12/19/2022 3:30am
12/19/2022 3:30am

 

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Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 12/19/2022 3:46am
12/19/2022 3:46am
#434 wrote:

What would any post about the Varg be without Magoofan and Sandusky come around the corner repeating the same s..t for the thousandth time…

I can't figure out how your deflecting your frustration of being lied to by Chad to me and Magoo. I wouldn't lie to you or take your money.

 

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38special
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38special 12/19/2022 6:40am
12/19/2022 6:40am

Laughing

 

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robkinuk
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robkinuk 12/19/2022 8:04am
12/19/2022 8:04am

Just seen this posted on Facebook by former Grand Prix rider Kurt Lunquist, first Stark bike delivered in Finland.

 

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theycallmeebryan 12/19/2022 8:34am
12/19/2022 8:34am
robkinuk wrote:
Just seen this posted on Facebook by former Grand Prix rider Kurt Lunquist, first Stark bike delivered in Finland.  

Just seen this posted on Facebook by former Grand Prix rider Kurt Lunquist, first Stark bike delivered in Finland.

 

Thats a non-functional display bike. Stark sent a few display bikes to dealers in rotation for promotional/training purposes.

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theycallmeebryan 12/19/2022 8:37am
12/19/2022 8:37am
Nate_Z wrote:
Lol, excited to see customer #1 actually ride his Varg, but just a video of him on his Alta...

Lol, excited to see customer #1 actually ride his Varg, but just a video of him on his Alta...

I'm excited too. Hoping to take delivery of my Stark in March.

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The real Sasquatch 12/19/2022 8:49am
12/19/2022 8:49am
38special wrote:
 

Laughing

 

I don't understand the big deal of having to charge your bike with a generator?   Most of the local races I go to  the pits are already full of RV's and generators running all day. and pressure washers.  You can get a 10k  invertor generator at Harbor Freight that is   almost silent for $2k or so. About the cost of a nice pipe and full hinson or rekluse clutch setup( 2 things you do not need on an Ebike).  I think they are around 61DB  VS a MX bike that is over 100DB. So its still less noise. I have many customers who come in and tell me how their kids love their Stacyc or husky/KTM ebikes and ride them more often than their gas powered bikes. So it sounds like it is bringing in new riders. I understand most of the pushback on electric is based on the fear of being forced to ride one and not having the choice between electric and gas and never having ridden an Electric bike. But I hate how the Gas VS Electric  always finds its way into posts about electric . Should some of the Ebike lovers start to post the pros of Ebikes in every post about a non ebike ? Or the cons of Gas compared to electric. Maybe they do and I miss it. But it seems like its way more common on posts about electric bikes. I keep coming to this thread hoping to see somebody posting about their Varg. And it's always the same stuff with the range is too short, no sound, you have to run a generator , etc. 

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