What is the next big innovation in bikes?

#434
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#434 10/25/2022 11:58am
10/25/2022 11:58am
Electronically controlled suspension is the most likely. Although it would be much cooler if the bike could adjust the sag or ride height and therefore the balance of the bike automatically than just the damping.
I’m really curious what the Yamaha steering system can do.

Ride-by-wire and a really clever traction control could come.

I like the idea of a hybrid. How about a system like Audi Dakar Rallye car. An electric bike like the Stark with a very small battery and a super efficient 125 4-stroke that just powers a generator to charge the battery. However, I don’t think such a system could be light enough. And it would be expensive as hell.
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stremme12
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stremme12 10/25/2022 12:46pm
10/25/2022 12:46pm
More simplified engines with just a compression and power stroke.
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vtnewb
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vtnewb 10/25/2022 1:33pm
10/25/2022 1:33pm
1 stroke motors (rockets)
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Caseclosed713 10/25/2022 3:28pm
10/25/2022 3:28pm
A sensor in the muffler that will illuminate a light on the handlebars if it detects the muffler plug is still in the pipe.
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The Shop

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rjg
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rjg 10/25/2022 4:39pm
10/25/2022 4:39pm Edited Date/Time 10/25/2022 4:40pm
ace402 wrote:
Electronically adjusted suspension.
The main problem I see coming with that is eventually as it evolves to get forward feedback abilities, the ground underneath you will become less and less of an obstacle. Eventually to point that the enjoyment of dirt biking becomes diminished.
1
Dirty Points 10/25/2022 5:26pm
10/25/2022 5:26pm Edited Date/Time 10/25/2022 5:29pm
ace402 wrote:
Electronically adjusted suspension.
rjg wrote:
The main problem I see coming with that is eventually as it evolves to get forward feedback abilities, the ground underneath you will become less and...
The main problem I see coming with that is eventually as it evolves to get forward feedback abilities, the ground underneath you will become less and less of an obstacle. Eventually to point that the enjoyment of dirt biking becomes diminished.
From a rider user perspective, you could become faster over uneven terrain until traction became the major issue on connecting obstacles, which is pretty close to where we are now, in the progressive suspension era -- which is why 4 strokes took over. In theory, with an electronic powertrain, that could also be overcome, but then cornering would become the primary obstacle, which brings us back to where MX has always has been through zillions of bike updates over a century.
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Stu newton
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Stu newton 10/27/2022 8:33am
10/27/2022 8:33am
Check out rope spokes for mountain bikes
Dynema is extremely strong,durable ,light
Be interesting to see if it would work for mx..
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Broseph
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Broseph 10/27/2022 8:47am
10/27/2022 8:47am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2022 8:53am
Project 2501 wrote:
I'm actually amazed that fly by wire throttle hasn't shown up on a dirtbike or hyper dirt focused dual sport yet as it's trickled over to...
I'm actually amazed that fly by wire throttle hasn't shown up on a dirtbike or hyper dirt focused dual sport yet as it's trickled over to base level street bikes with lowish price points.

Not that I'm advocating for it/against it, just surprised that it's not on dirt bike yet.
Broseph wrote:
I’m pretty glad fly by wire isn’t on dirt bikes yet. Last thing I want is a computer between my wrist and the throttle body second-guessing...
I’m pretty glad fly by wire isn’t on dirt bikes yet. Last thing I want is a computer between my wrist and the throttle body second-guessing every input and trying to deliver what it thinks I mean by the current throttle tube position.
#434 wrote:
And here’s your reason why dirt bikes don’t have fly-by-wire or electronic suspension. The factories know their average dirt bike consumer… How can you trust an...
And here’s your reason why dirt bikes don’t have fly-by-wire or electronic suspension.
The factories know their average dirt bike consumer…

How can you trust an EFI then?
What I stated was accurate regarding how a drive by wire throttle works. You give it a suggestion with your wrist, and it gives you the throttle position it thinks you want. If you have ever dug into the drive by wire parameters in an automotive ecu, you know this to be true.

Not sure what you were getting at with your post?
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don'tknowwhy
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don'tknowwhy 10/27/2022 9:30am
10/27/2022 9:30am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2022 9:37am
skyrebel88 wrote:
Electrical controlled suspension and...
THIS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mjCK8DCRZQ
That was very interesting.

Almost seems like it affects the perception of the rider more than the mechanical and physical capabilities of the bike.
Bearuno
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Bearuno 10/27/2022 10:47am
10/27/2022 10:47am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2022 2:07am
don'tknowwhy wrote:
That was very interesting.

Almost seems like it affects the perception of the rider more than the mechanical and physical capabilities of the bike.
That, to a certain extent, is correct. Well thought!

In that video, they put forward a whole bunch of benefits, over and above it's main function / feel.

That is, the "steering flop" they talk about.

With slacker head angles, and, a ( welcome, to me) return to less offset ( trail ) at low speeds, typical of climbing / just 'puttering along, that system is quite good. At, masking 'steering flop'.

I know, because quite some time ago , I made a system pretty similar to it.

I used my own, personal "Mini Mullet" DH bike (27.5" F, 26" R ) to experiment with such a system. With the 10.25" rear end, and 9" travel front end I have, a whole bike with 29 / 27.5 wheels becomes a bit tall for this Not So Big Bear. With std 200mm forks and my 215 mm travel frames I make, the 29 / 27.5 is great. I should go with the bigger wheels, but I just keep using my old bike, as I'm so familiar with it. With the stops on my knee braces to limit the straightening of my easily hyperextended knees, and with the rear wheel moving a Long way on my Mini Mullet, a 27.5 rear wheel tries to make a meal of my butt, as my legs don't extend fully.

On that Mini Mullet, I have Very short all up offset, of only 31mm. It's what I like / want and, can Make, though it Is Extreme - far better for 'normal ' people, is around the 44 / 46 /48mm mark. I hate the ridiculous offset the fork manufacturers went to as they kicked out the front ends, with Big wheels. Finally, with MTB forks, they've started to back away from the 56 / 52mm all up offset, that I so hate. Kicking out the steering head angle for stability, and, "Angle Of Attack", but then adding more offset, that reduces trail, has been so bloody stupid and counterproductive. Just go looking for tests where people have fitted flatter, less offset Triple Clamps and crown / uppers to single crown forks, to see the revelation then found to the handling of a bike.

The second you actually stop faffing about, as on a DH run, well, there's no steering flop. So, for me, and my riders trying it, it wasn't of much use.

My set up was on dual crown forks, with a 35mm steer tube clamp on stem, which left the Direct Mount bolt holes for various plates, blocks and arcs, for various geometries to the mounting of the spring set up I used. For that, I had an enclosed ( like a typical fish weighing apparatus) single spring . I first made a nice little alloy clamp to go onto the top tube, but soon machined up a weld on saddle , with a slide, for different pre-loads.

It worked to 'hide' the flop, but I regard the other 'benefits' put forward as a bit spurious - more of a mental thing. But, Marketing - it's what so much of Bicycling Innovation is about. Yes, I am, to a certain extent, a cynical old bastard.

For Motorcycle application, well, I see No use for such a thing. Hondas 'Steering Damper', acted a bit like it (though, in sort of the opposite way : reducing in corner 'tuck in' predominantly ), and that has, generally, disappeared from usage. Hey, I'm No Damper Hater, I've used my 1988 UNIC Steering Damper, on every bike I've had, since, well, 1988.

It will be the "New , Bestest Thing Ever ". Fair enough. It will address a bit of a "problem", and, sell units, with yet another acronym 'USP'.
Leave Us To
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Leave Us To 10/27/2022 4:06pm
10/27/2022 4:06pm
Crash sensors to trigger caution sensors (lights or sound) on MX bikes so people crashing on blind jumps don't get Red Bud Alessi'd. When the bike stalls or is laying on the ground idling would activate the sensors on all machines within a 250 foot radius.
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#434
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#434 10/27/2022 5:03pm
10/27/2022 5:03pm
Broseph wrote:
I’m pretty glad fly by wire isn’t on dirt bikes yet. Last thing I want is a computer between my wrist and the throttle body second-guessing...
I’m pretty glad fly by wire isn’t on dirt bikes yet. Last thing I want is a computer between my wrist and the throttle body second-guessing every input and trying to deliver what it thinks I mean by the current throttle tube position.
#434 wrote:
And here’s your reason why dirt bikes don’t have fly-by-wire or electronic suspension. The factories know their average dirt bike consumer… How can you trust an...
And here’s your reason why dirt bikes don’t have fly-by-wire or electronic suspension.
The factories know their average dirt bike consumer…

How can you trust an EFI then?
Broseph wrote:
What I stated was accurate regarding how a drive by wire throttle works. You give it a suggestion with your wrist, and it gives you the...
What I stated was accurate regarding how a drive by wire throttle works. You give it a suggestion with your wrist, and it gives you the throttle position it thinks you want. If you have ever dug into the drive by wire parameters in an automotive ecu, you know this to be true.

Not sure what you were getting at with your post?
No, you said that you don’t want the fly by wire second-guessing your input, which means you don’t trust it to do it’s supposed to do.
And my question was: how can you trust an ECU then? It also „guesses“, based on a few parameters, how long it’s injecting fuel per engine cycle and when to fire the spark plug.

I always laugh when people reject new tech, while they’ve been using a variation of it for years...
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Broseph
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Broseph 10/27/2022 6:02pm
10/27/2022 6:02pm Edited Date/Time 10/27/2022 6:06pm
#434 wrote:
And here’s your reason why dirt bikes don’t have fly-by-wire or electronic suspension. The factories know their average dirt bike consumer… How can you trust an...
And here’s your reason why dirt bikes don’t have fly-by-wire or electronic suspension.
The factories know their average dirt bike consumer…

How can you trust an EFI then?
Broseph wrote:
What I stated was accurate regarding how a drive by wire throttle works. You give it a suggestion with your wrist, and it gives you the...
What I stated was accurate regarding how a drive by wire throttle works. You give it a suggestion with your wrist, and it gives you the throttle position it thinks you want. If you have ever dug into the drive by wire parameters in an automotive ecu, you know this to be true.

Not sure what you were getting at with your post?
#434 wrote:
No, you said that you don’t want the fly by wire second-guessing your input, which means you don’t trust it to do it’s supposed to do...
No, you said that you don’t want the fly by wire second-guessing your input, which means you don’t trust it to do it’s supposed to do.
And my question was: how can you trust an ECU then? It also „guesses“, based on a few parameters, how long it’s injecting fuel per engine cycle and when to fire the spark plug.

I always laugh when people reject new tech, while they’ve been using a variation of it for years...
I think you’re misunderstanding my position. I trust it to do exactly what it is programmed to do. Problem is, if that’s anything but follow the grip twist exactly, then I don’t want it.

If it does follow the grip exactly then I don’t get it… What’s the advantage over a cable throttle?
VE290
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VE290 10/27/2022 7:15pm
10/27/2022 7:15pm
Not just dirtbikes, performanc engines in general, I want to see camless engines. Reduction in weight, rotating mass, size of the engine. Variable cam timing, even lift/duration, and could be tuneable. Electronic or hydraulically actuated valve train.
Broseph
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Broseph 10/27/2022 7:25pm
10/27/2022 7:25pm
VE290 wrote:
Not just dirtbikes, performanc engines in general, I want to see camless engines. Reduction in weight, rotating mass, size of the engine. Variable cam timing, even...
Not just dirtbikes, performanc engines in general, I want to see camless engines. Reduction in weight, rotating mass, size of the engine. Variable cam timing, even lift/duration, and could be tuneable. Electronic or hydraulically actuated valve train.
Camless and throttleless too. If you’ve got full control over the valves, the throttle body becomes redundant.
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Max Petro
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Max Petro 10/27/2022 8:31pm
10/27/2022 8:31pm Edited Date/Time 10/27/2022 8:36pm
Go back to 2strokes

Pit Row

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Broseph
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Broseph 10/28/2022 12:41pm
10/28/2022 12:41pm
theycallmeebryan wrote:
Different frame sizes, like MTB
Seems like Husky is kind of doing that with their lowered suspension. Not a new frame size, of course, but a similar idea.
spimx
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spimx 10/28/2022 2:50pm
10/28/2022 2:50pm
Regression I hope, back to the 90s when most people could afford a 125 more places to ride too
#434
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#434 10/28/2022 3:31pm
10/28/2022 3:31pm
Broseph wrote:
What I stated was accurate regarding how a drive by wire throttle works. You give it a suggestion with your wrist, and it gives you the...
What I stated was accurate regarding how a drive by wire throttle works. You give it a suggestion with your wrist, and it gives you the throttle position it thinks you want. If you have ever dug into the drive by wire parameters in an automotive ecu, you know this to be true.

Not sure what you were getting at with your post?
#434 wrote:
No, you said that you don’t want the fly by wire second-guessing your input, which means you don’t trust it to do it’s supposed to do...
No, you said that you don’t want the fly by wire second-guessing your input, which means you don’t trust it to do it’s supposed to do.
And my question was: how can you trust an ECU then? It also „guesses“, based on a few parameters, how long it’s injecting fuel per engine cycle and when to fire the spark plug.

I always laugh when people reject new tech, while they’ve been using a variation of it for years...
Broseph wrote:
I think you’re misunderstanding my position. I trust it to do exactly what it is programmed to do. Problem is, if that’s anything but follow the...
I think you’re misunderstanding my position. I trust it to do exactly what it is programmed to do. Problem is, if that’s anything but follow the grip twist exactly, then I don’t want it.

If it does follow the grip exactly then I don’t get it… What’s the advantage over a cable throttle?
The advantage of ride by wire is to control the throttle opening from zero. If you can control that the butterfly doesn’t open to quickly from zero throttle, you can, for example, use a very large butterfly for top-end power and so on. You have a much better defined platform to design ignition and injection timing.
rjg
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rjg 10/28/2022 9:53pm
10/28/2022 9:53pm Edited Date/Time 10/28/2022 10:28pm
ace402 wrote:
Electronically adjusted suspension.
rjg wrote:
The main problem I see coming with that is eventually as it evolves to get forward feedback abilities, the ground underneath you will become less and...
The main problem I see coming with that is eventually as it evolves to get forward feedback abilities, the ground underneath you will become less and less of an obstacle. Eventually to point that the enjoyment of dirt biking becomes diminished.
Dirty Points wrote:
From a rider user perspective, you could become faster over uneven terrain until traction became the major issue on connecting obstacles, which is pretty close to...
From a rider user perspective, you could become faster over uneven terrain until traction became the major issue on connecting obstacles, which is pretty close to where we are now, in the progressive suspension era -- which is why 4 strokes took over. In theory, with an electronic powertrain, that could also be overcome, but then cornering would become the primary obstacle, which brings us back to where MX has always has been through zillions of bike updates over a century.
I will be your leader when the time comes. Eventually the terrain will be negligible with forward feedback and AI. Wait til your life is a corporation's imagination and limitation of their fantasy vs nature's natural reality of miracles. It's going that way. Keep it human. I am Kyle Reese. John Connor becomes evil. Have you seen the kid? He rides a 89-94 XR 200 4 stroke that sounds like it has a 2 stroke motor. He like to hang around video game arcades as well.

dammit how do add pictures.
RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 10/29/2022 1:09am
10/29/2022 1:09am
The next big “innovation” will be some sort of electronic adjustment platform that you need a subscription to to use. Stark Varg will already have that in place.
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endurox
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endurox 10/29/2022 7:12am
10/29/2022 7:12am
3d printed wheels with no spokes and proper flex. Outer chain ring would be replaceable
but not the carrier. Same for the brake rotor.
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