Claiming rule changes?

zachsmotoing
Profile picture for user zachsmotoing
Posts
31
Joined
2/22/2022
Location
Middletown, PA US
zachsmotoing
What are some things that could be changed/added to the rule to keep situations like this from happening again? I think if there was confidentiality part to it that would help where only the ama officials/ mx sports knows who filed the claim that would keep the rider from getting pressured, bullied, or harassed. (Not saying that happened in this specific situation)
2
2
|
fourfourone
Profile picture for user fourfourone
Posts
3042
Joined
10/14/2017
Location
86oh, CT US
fourfourone 8/17/2022 5:33am
8/17/2022 5:33am
Dj Khalid voice:

Anotha one!

9
1
TXDirt
Profile picture for user TXDirt
Posts
7784
Joined
7/29/2015
Location
Plano, TX US
TXDirt 8/17/2022 5:34am
8/17/2022 5:34am
Let anyone claim a bike at Loretta’s.

Hold teams accountable.

2x msrp if in same class
3x msrp if not in same class

Anyone can claim any bike at Loretta’s. That should be the rule.

Stop with these factory children on $50,000 factory bikes.

We need more claims. Not less.
40
2
Gravel
Profile picture for user Gravel
Posts
1775
Joined
2/22/2014
Location
Ridgecrest, CA US
Gravel 8/17/2022 5:53am
8/17/2022 5:53am
Whatever changes are made need to make claims more common. Adding something about a legal adult being involved would be great, added more teeth to the rules preventing obstruction of claims would also be good. Keep the MSRP x2 rule, these are supposed to be races for regular kids to show up an make a name for themselves, everyone on mostly stock bikes is the best way to do that.
6

The Shop

See All »
tingo
Profile picture for user tingo
Posts
1191
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Orlando, FL US
tingo 8/17/2022 5:54am
8/17/2022 5:54am
Keeping the claimant anonymous until the claim is processed is an easy, logical move. Requiring a parent or guardian to be there also makes sense. The 2x value should stay.

In addition, I think in a case like Deegan's in which a rider has another moto to race the next day, rules should be in place to protect the bike for its new owner. If someone knew their bike was being claimed after a race, it would be pretty tempting to blow it up out of spite. You can't really control the way they race it, but something like an intentional burn out, ghost-riding it into water, or just holding it wide open in neutral should be prohibited. Intentionally harming the bike should carry the same penalty as circumventing the claim process: a year ban. At first I was thinking that the rider (and entourage) shouldn't be informed of the claim at all until the AMA comes to collect the bike, but that creates potential issues with motors or parts being swapped before the final moto if they are worried about a bike being claimed; the bike needs to be in impound once the claim is made.

My crystal ball shows claims becoming a much more frequent occurrence and I'm all for it.
7
mxrose3
Profile picture for user mxrose3
Posts
2324
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Delmar, DE US
mxrose3 8/17/2022 6:06am
8/17/2022 6:06am
tingo wrote:
Keeping the claimant anonymous until the claim is processed is an easy, logical move. Requiring a parent or guardian to be there also makes sense. The...
Keeping the claimant anonymous until the claim is processed is an easy, logical move. Requiring a parent or guardian to be there also makes sense. The 2x value should stay.

In addition, I think in a case like Deegan's in which a rider has another moto to race the next day, rules should be in place to protect the bike for its new owner. If someone knew their bike was being claimed after a race, it would be pretty tempting to blow it up out of spite. You can't really control the way they race it, but something like an intentional burn out, ghost-riding it into water, or just holding it wide open in neutral should be prohibited. Intentionally harming the bike should carry the same penalty as circumventing the claim process: a year ban. At first I was thinking that the rider (and entourage) shouldn't be informed of the claim at all until the AMA comes to collect the bike, but that creates potential issues with motors or parts being swapped before the final moto if they are worried about a bike being claimed; the bike needs to be in impound once the claim is made.

My crystal ball shows claims becoming a much more frequent occurrence and I'm all for it.
agreed on all counts - especially the anonymous part. But maybe keep the claim quiet until the rider finishes their last moto ... drop it on them after that, so they don't try to do any funny stuff like take the motor.
3
GG121
Profile picture for user GG121
Posts
269
Joined
3/17/2022
Location
MD US
GG121 8/17/2022 6:14am
8/17/2022 6:14am
There needs to be a clear and unbroken chain of command from the time the claim is submitted to the time the bike is loaded on the trailer. The claimant needs to remain anonymous and there should not be any contact between parties. The current price is adequate, and there needs to be punishments in place if either party tries to intimidate the other. Of course none of this will happen. I'm sure the price will be $40,000 next year, and anyone who dares try to claim a factory bike will be promptly drawn and quartered. Sorry little Timmy, daddy can't make it to your 11th birthday party, he has to work a third job so he can buy A Kit suspension for your 65, 85, and 125. I know, I know its lonely living by yourself at training camp but if you just work hard this might all be worth it one day.

This sport rocks!
4
1
Gravel
Profile picture for user Gravel
Posts
1775
Joined
2/22/2014
Location
Ridgecrest, CA US
Gravel 8/17/2022 6:16am
8/17/2022 6:16am
Maybe make the claiming period after the rider finished the last race of the event, anyone who raced against could file a claim at that point? But that’s gonna motivate swapping in a stock motor for the last moto. Stock suspension too.

What’s the downside of requiring a sealed motor for the entire event? It’ll encourage building for durability.
1
1
Frank Tuesday 8/17/2022 6:26am
8/17/2022 6:26am
tingo wrote:
Keeping the claimant anonymous until the claim is processed is an easy, logical move. Requiring a parent or guardian to be there also makes sense. The...
Keeping the claimant anonymous until the claim is processed is an easy, logical move. Requiring a parent or guardian to be there also makes sense. The 2x value should stay.

In addition, I think in a case like Deegan's in which a rider has another moto to race the next day, rules should be in place to protect the bike for its new owner. If someone knew their bike was being claimed after a race, it would be pretty tempting to blow it up out of spite. You can't really control the way they race it, but something like an intentional burn out, ghost-riding it into water, or just holding it wide open in neutral should be prohibited. Intentionally harming the bike should carry the same penalty as circumventing the claim process: a year ban. At first I was thinking that the rider (and entourage) shouldn't be informed of the claim at all until the AMA comes to collect the bike, but that creates potential issues with motors or parts being swapped before the final moto if they are worried about a bike being claimed; the bike needs to be in impound once the claim is made.

My crystal ball shows claims becoming a much more frequent occurrence and I'm all for it.
Don't tell the team or rider that the bike has been claimed until after the last race the rider is entered in, and then officials just take possession of it and hand over the money order.
2
lumpy790
Profile picture for user lumpy790
Posts
11220
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC US
lumpy790 8/17/2022 6:35am
8/17/2022 6:35am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2022 7:14am
A lot has changed since the last claim in 2005 so IMO with the price of todays $10,000 suspension and $1500 exhaust systems and electronic systems it should be increased to at least 3 but more like 4x MSRP.
1
24
ARM670
Profile picture for user ARM670
Posts
2087
Joined
12/11/2020
Location
Napoleon, OH US
ARM670 8/17/2022 6:36am
8/17/2022 6:36am
Unfortunately I don't see things getting better. With the growth of our sport and more money being involved things are going to get worse. If you look at every professional sport as money starts to flow cheating and bending the rules gets more common. Next in line is to start the trickle down to corruption in the amateurs. As kids we played baseball and rode our dirt bikes dreaming of playing in the MLB or racing Daytona. Now kids are pushed to go pro and not just have fun and if it happens great and if not great as well.
1
TXDirt
Profile picture for user TXDirt
Posts
7784
Joined
7/29/2015
Location
Plano, TX US
TXDirt 8/17/2022 7:27am
8/17/2022 7:27am
Keep in mind, no one is actually out any money. These top riders get everything for free. It’s not like little Timmy back in 18th place is getting his bike claimed after pouring 20k into it.

Deegan doesn’t pay a dime for anything. And I would guess most in the top 10 are getting a lot of free stuff. Or heavily discounted.

Turns out even a 16th place rider at LLs gets 6 free Yamahas a year from a local dealer now.

So to say well now a pipe and silencer costs $1,500 so now there is just sooo much more money into the the bikes that you should increase the claim value to 4x msrp.

Bullshit.

No rider or family who actually gets their bike claimed is out a single penny.

That’s why it’s important to keep the claim level low to hold teams accountable.

And change the rule so anyone can claim a bike.

2x msrp if in same class
3x msrp if out of class

If Harris wants to claim a star bike he should be able to at 3x msrp.

If Star doesn’t want to lose “money” or tech then don’t put a kid on a $50,000 motorcycle at an place that’s supposed to showcase amateur racing. Not the latest and greatest in factory bike technology.
8
2
TeamGreen
Profile picture for user TeamGreen
Posts
36506
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
TeamGreen 8/17/2022 7:31am
8/17/2022 7:31am
lumpy790 wrote:
A lot has changed since the last claim in 2005 so IMO with the price of todays $10,000 suspension and $1500 exhaust systems and electronic systems...
A lot has changed since the last claim in 2005 so IMO with the price of todays $10,000 suspension and $1500 exhaust systems and electronic systems it should be increased to at least 3 but more like 4x MSRP.
Steve,

Allowing "completely different suspension" IS a huge part of the problem...in Amateur racing. Bye the way, I believe the rule book allows $7500 for that...which is ALSO RIDICULOUS when you think about it.

Stock Major Component limitations with ONLY certain internal parts being allowed to be changed would be a damn good start.

Look, I know you and I know you still have a passion for our sport: it needs to be reigned in and it needs to have serious limitations for...

Amateur Racing Equipment.

Here's an example that surely would need greater "attention to details" in the language...

Suspension: Must use stock structural components and only internal valving, seals, fasteners, bladders and spring changes allowed. Spring Kits for Air Suspension is allowed limited to $XXX.XX. Etc., etc., etc. ....

Something along those lines.
9
1
lumpy790
Profile picture for user lumpy790
Posts
11220
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC US
lumpy790 8/17/2022 8:04am
8/17/2022 8:04am
The old days of having a 100% stock class died off many years ago ok except except for the PW50 class 😂 Hell even the stock classes were allowed to change the suspension.

So you are saying ALL brands of Factory Editions should also be illegal?
9
Jeremy Macduff 8/17/2022 8:09am
8/17/2022 8:09am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2022 8:11am
The only people involved in the claim process should be AMA officials. No MXSports, no trainers, no manufacturers, no representatives from the team whose bike is being claimed. The AMA Official(s) need to act as arbitrator for the process. No outside influence should be involved, at all.

The fact that Brennan, a minor, found himself alone in a room with a MX Sports representative, a trainer and Deegan is just completely astounding to me. What a bunch of moronic clowns. DC is a moron too for allowing this to happen.
4
2
tingo
Profile picture for user tingo
Posts
1191
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Orlando, FL US
tingo 8/17/2022 8:39am
8/17/2022 8:39am
lumpy790 wrote:
A lot has changed since the last claim in 2005 so IMO with the price of todays $10,000 suspension and $1500 exhaust systems and electronic systems...
A lot has changed since the last claim in 2005 so IMO with the price of todays $10,000 suspension and $1500 exhaust systems and electronic systems it should be increased to at least 3 but more like 4x MSRP.
Lump, you’re missing the entire point. The goal isn’t to fully compensate someone for whatever money they put into the bike; the goal is to discourage from putting that much into the bike to begin with so that those without as much financial support can be on equipment that is remotely in the same league. It’s about some level of parity in an amateur series.
11
rbm33
Profile picture for user rbm33
Posts
423
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Duncan, OK US
Fantasy
942nd
rbm33 8/17/2022 8:46am
8/17/2022 8:46am
lumpy790 wrote:
A lot has changed since the last claim in 2005 so IMO with the price of todays $10,000 suspension and $1500 exhaust systems and electronic systems...
A lot has changed since the last claim in 2005 so IMO with the price of todays $10,000 suspension and $1500 exhaust systems and electronic systems it should be increased to at least 3 but more like 4x MSRP.
tingo wrote:
Lump, you’re missing the entire point. The goal isn’t to fully compensate someone for whatever money they put into the bike; the goal is to discourage...
Lump, you’re missing the entire point. The goal isn’t to fully compensate someone for whatever money they put into the bike; the goal is to discourage from putting that much into the bike to begin with so that those without as much financial support can be on equipment that is remotely in the same league. It’s about some level of parity in an amateur series.
Tingo, I agree with everything you said, however the real point is that the rules are enforced. Its basically pointless to have any rules if they just pick and choose which one they want to reinforce.
3
lumpy790
Profile picture for user lumpy790
Posts
11220
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC US
lumpy790 8/17/2022 9:08am
8/17/2022 9:08am
Part of this is also to limit the amount of claims so its not a easy lets claim every bike fiasco after every 3rd moto. If 10 riders or proper aged representatives filed the claim on the same bike with in the 30 minutes of posting the results then what?

While I am surprised that they raced the same bike in 2 classes there should also be a rule on what they do if this happens again.
1

Pit Row

See All »
LungButter
Profile picture for user LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID US
LungButter 8/17/2022 9:11am
8/17/2022 9:11am
Jeremy Macduff wrote:
The only people involved in the claim process should be AMA officials. No MXSports, no trainers, no manufacturers, no representatives from the team whose bike is...
The only people involved in the claim process should be AMA officials. No MXSports, no trainers, no manufacturers, no representatives from the team whose bike is being claimed. The AMA Official(s) need to act as arbitrator for the process. No outside influence should be involved, at all.

The fact that Brennan, a minor, found himself alone in a room with a MX Sports representative, a trainer and Deegan is just completely astounding to me. What a bunch of moronic clowns. DC is a moron too for allowing this to happen.
Wait, so now the trainer was in the room too?
1
TXDirt
Profile picture for user TXDirt
Posts
7784
Joined
7/29/2015
Location
Plano, TX US
TXDirt 8/17/2022 9:19am
8/17/2022 9:19am
lumpy790 wrote:
Part of this is also to limit the amount of claims so its not a easy lets claim every bike fiasco after every 3rd moto. If...
Part of this is also to limit the amount of claims so its not a easy lets claim every bike fiasco after every 3rd moto. If 10 riders or proper aged representatives filed the claim on the same bike with in the 30 minutes of posting the results then what?

While I am surprised that they raced the same bike in 2 classes there should also be a rule on what they do if this happens again.
Why do you need to limit the amount of claims? Claiming is already easy. Except when you get bullied and intimidated after making the claim.

Currently it’s 2x msrp. (I think)

Are there a ton of claims each year?

No. Claiming is rare.

And the reason is because the expectation is that everyone is running a bike with parts they can buy themselves.

So what’s to claim? Nothing you can’t buy. Right?

But then sometimes you have a team like Star that puts a kid on a $50,000 motorcycle. With parts that cannot be purchased.

That’s exactly what the claim rule is for.

Claiming should be encouraged. Not discouraged.
11
arebnac
Profile picture for user arebnac
Posts
344
Joined
4/25/2021
Location
UY
arebnac 8/17/2022 9:37am
8/17/2022 9:37am
In Scandinavia theres a racing category where if you win the race, you need to sell your car for +-500bucks. Its called Folkrace.
1
FreshTopEnd
Profile picture for user FreshTopEnd
Posts
12986
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA US
FreshTopEnd 8/17/2022 10:01am
8/17/2022 10:01am
Curious who read the existing rule before deciding what changes need to be made. Maybe it needs to be enforced.

The only thing that stands out to me that would help is to have the post claim process clarify who is entitled to be involved.
3
RichieW13
Profile picture for user RichieW13
Posts
2391
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
RichieW13 8/17/2022 10:06am
8/17/2022 10:06am
lumpy790 wrote:
Part of this is also to limit the amount of claims so its not a easy lets claim every bike fiasco after every 3rd moto. If...
Part of this is also to limit the amount of claims so its not a easy lets claim every bike fiasco after every 3rd moto. If 10 riders or proper aged representatives filed the claim on the same bike with in the 30 minutes of posting the results then what?

While I am surprised that they raced the same bike in 2 classes there should also be a rule on what they do if this happens again.
The rulebook covers that:

"If more than one claim is received for the same motorcycle,
the meet referee will hold a drawing to determine the
successful claimant."

https://americanmotorcyclist.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/AMA_2022-RU…
1
shuggs
Profile picture for user shuggs
Posts
1773
Joined
8/6/2008
Location
Dunfermline GB
shuggs 8/17/2022 10:07am
8/17/2022 10:07am
TXDirt wrote:
Let anyone claim a bike at Loretta’s. Hold teams accountable. 2x msrp if in same class 3x msrp if not in same class Anyone can claim...
Let anyone claim a bike at Loretta’s.

Hold teams accountable.

2x msrp if in same class
3x msrp if not in same class

Anyone can claim any bike at Loretta’s. That should be the rule.

Stop with these factory children on $50,000 factory bikes.

We need more claims. Not less.
I would only add confidentiality.

Like the 3x for other classes👍
1
Tiki
Profile picture for user Tiki
Posts
10571
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
Corona, CA US
Fantasy
1093rd
Tiki 8/17/2022 10:15am
8/17/2022 10:15am
TXDirt wrote:
Let anyone claim a bike at Loretta’s. Hold teams accountable. 2x msrp if in same class 3x msrp if not in same class Anyone can claim...
Let anyone claim a bike at Loretta’s.

Hold teams accountable.

2x msrp if in same class
3x msrp if not in same class

Anyone can claim any bike at Loretta’s. That should be the rule.

Stop with these factory children on $50,000 factory bikes.

We need more claims. Not less.
Id say if anything. LOWER the price. Same Class MSRP, not in same class 2x

Random AMA tear down. Public Tear Down.
Gordon Liddy 8/17/2022 10:36am
8/17/2022 10:36am
lumpy790 wrote:
A lot has changed since the last claim in 2005 so IMO with the price of todays $10,000 suspension and $1500 exhaust systems and electronic systems...
A lot has changed since the last claim in 2005 so IMO with the price of todays $10,000 suspension and $1500 exhaust systems and electronic systems it should be increased to at least 3 but more like 4x MSRP.
WRONG

Anyone entering those races shouldn't be running $10k suspension. That is the point of the rule. They should be running only modified stock stuff to their weight etc.
3
cable
Profile picture for user cable
Posts
1241
Joined
6/11/2008
Location
Rockford, MI US
cable 8/17/2022 10:54am
8/17/2022 10:54am
step 1. claimant must be 18 years old.
olds cool
Profile picture for user olds cool
Posts
4149
Joined
1/17/2010
Location
Claremont, NC US
olds cool 8/17/2022 11:05am
8/17/2022 11:05am
If the NASCAR Cup series can become a spec class, then why can’t championship level amateur mx, at least in the youth and C and B classes run mostly stock equipment? A / Pro Sport leave alone because that should be a stepping stone to the pro ranks. Let’s see who the best riders in the youth, C and B classes really are. Allow internal changes to suspension like Team Green said. Change handlebars, levers and grips. Change seat height. Change foot pegs. Change Air filter. Change tires. Leave everything else stock. Would Deegan still win? Probably so but it takes all the excuses away from the other 39 kids on the lines’ dads.
mxrose3
Profile picture for user mxrose3
Posts
2324
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Delmar, DE US
mxrose3 8/17/2022 11:55am
8/17/2022 11:55am
The rule is there so you don't put that much money into the bike. If you put $10,000 suspension on your bike, be prepared to lose it at the end of the race. Otherwise, don't run it. Thats the whole point of the claming rule - to keep costs down for amateur racing.
4
lumpy790
Profile picture for user lumpy790
Posts
11220
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC US
lumpy790 8/17/2022 1:18pm
8/17/2022 1:18pm
Everyone headed to race LL has the bike set up to the best level they can afford to be competitive. Many parents credit cards get maxed out. Brand new bikes just for that 1 race.

I know of one of the BIG motor builders that in the past offered several different levels of motor work for their sponsored riders up to a $10,000+ just for motor mods. Rider/parents decide how much $ they want to spend for what they get. Want a bike that totally RIPS? $$$$$$$$$$$ !!!
1
1

Post a reply to: Claiming rule changes?