"CNC machined"

indy_maico
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Indianapolis, IN US
Edited Date/Time 7/19/2022 7:08pm
New bikes are all coming out, and the most over-used term in motorcycles and the associated products has to be 'CNC machined'

I have news for everyone, well maybe not everyone, but EVERY machine part on every bike is CNC machined.

Every triple clamp, no matter if it is billet, forged, or cast. Every hub. Every footpeg, every engine mount, well, you get the picture.

It is not a special feature, so I really don't know why it is in every press release, magazine article and bike test.

Unless you have a works bike, there is no one standing over a manual Bridgeport mill or Cincinnati lathe whittling parts out to bolt on your bike.

Everything is CNC machined!
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Jeremy A.K.
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7/16/2022 9:00am
Fancy names help sell?
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Luxon MX
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Fantasy
7/16/2022 9:02am
All of our steering stems are finished on our Hardinge manual lathe. But of course, the majority of the part is CNC machined.

"CNC Machined" is typically (but not always) used in marketing to differentiate that the part is machined from billet rather than initially cast or forged. Of course most all cast/forged parts are finished on the CNC machine to create threads, final bore sizes, etc., but it's a small part of the overall manufacturing of the part.

The biggest reason you see the term all over the place is because that's what many customers want. It's generally thought to be a better process that results in a higher end part.
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indy_maico
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7/16/2022 9:37am
Luxon MX wrote:
All of our steering stems are finished on our Hardinge manual lathe. But of course, the majority of the part is CNC machined. "CNC Machined" is...
All of our steering stems are finished on our Hardinge manual lathe. But of course, the majority of the part is CNC machined.

"CNC Machined" is typically (but not always) used in marketing to differentiate that the part is machined from billet rather than initially cast or forged. Of course most all cast/forged parts are finished on the CNC machine to create threads, final bore sizes, etc., but it's a small part of the overall manufacturing of the part.

The biggest reason you see the term all over the place is because that's what many customers want. It's generally thought to be a better process that results in a higher end part.
Very interesting that you finish the steering stems on a manual lathe.

Just wondering why (unless that is a manufacturing secret!)
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2
NP301
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Keene, NH US
7/16/2022 9:38am
Luxon MX wrote:
All of our steering stems are finished on our Hardinge manual lathe. But of course, the majority of the part is CNC machined. "CNC Machined" is...
All of our steering stems are finished on our Hardinge manual lathe. But of course, the majority of the part is CNC machined.

"CNC Machined" is typically (but not always) used in marketing to differentiate that the part is machined from billet rather than initially cast or forged. Of course most all cast/forged parts are finished on the CNC machine to create threads, final bore sizes, etc., but it's a small part of the overall manufacturing of the part.

The biggest reason you see the term all over the place is because that's what many customers want. It's generally thought to be a better process that results in a higher end part.
indy_maico wrote:
Very interesting that you finish the steering stems on a manual lathe.

Just wondering why (unless that is a manufacturing secret!)
You can probably get a particular cut or angle that is harder to achieve with CNC program.
1

The Shop

lestat
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Piut RE
7/16/2022 9:59am
Luxon MX wrote:
All of our steering stems are finished on our Hardinge manual lathe. But of course, the majority of the part is CNC machined. "CNC Machined" is...
All of our steering stems are finished on our Hardinge manual lathe. But of course, the majority of the part is CNC machined.

"CNC Machined" is typically (but not always) used in marketing to differentiate that the part is machined from billet rather than initially cast or forged. Of course most all cast/forged parts are finished on the CNC machine to create threads, final bore sizes, etc., but it's a small part of the overall manufacturing of the part.

The biggest reason you see the term all over the place is because that's what many customers want. It's generally thought to be a better process that results in a higher end part.
indy_maico wrote:
Very interesting that you finish the steering stems on a manual lathe.

Just wondering why (unless that is a manufacturing secret!)
I’m curious about this as well .
Luxon MX
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Fantasy
7/16/2022 10:03am
indy_maico wrote:
Very interesting that you finish the steering stems on a manual lathe.

Just wondering why (unless that is a manufacturing secret!)
We machine the steering stem using raw stock that's about an inch longer than the actual stem. This allows us to clamp on to that longer portion with the lathe chuck and machine the entire length of the stem in one setup. Doing it this way keeps everything as concentric as possible and keeps a better overall finish.

The stem is then "tab parted"; it's still connected to the carrier, but just barely. We break it off of the carrier by hand, but that leaves a sharp edge. The sharp edge is removed on the manual lathe as it's super simple to do and we can be finishing stems manually while the CNC lathe does the hard work in parallel.

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Broseph
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7/16/2022 10:04am Edited Date/Time 7/16/2022 10:05am
Luxon MX wrote:
All of our steering stems are finished on our Hardinge manual lathe. But of course, the majority of the part is CNC machined. "CNC Machined" is...
All of our steering stems are finished on our Hardinge manual lathe. But of course, the majority of the part is CNC machined.

"CNC Machined" is typically (but not always) used in marketing to differentiate that the part is machined from billet rather than initially cast or forged. Of course most all cast/forged parts are finished on the CNC machine to create threads, final bore sizes, etc., but it's a small part of the overall manufacturing of the part.

The biggest reason you see the term all over the place is because that's what many customers want. It's generally thought to be a better process that results in a higher end part.
indy_maico wrote:
Very interesting that you finish the steering stems on a manual lathe.

Just wondering why (unless that is a manufacturing secret!)
lestat wrote:
I’m curious about this as well .
My uneducated guess is the cnc lathe can do the stem complete save for the chamfers on the bottom. So it’s flipped, chucked in the manual lathe, then ID/OD chamfered. Possibly faced as well, depending on whether or not the parting tool from OP1 left an acceptable finish.

Edit: Billy with the holeshot.
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Jeremy A.K.
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7/16/2022 10:05am
Luxon MX wrote:
We machine the steering stem using raw stock that's about an inch longer than the actual stem. This allows us to clamp on to that longer...
We machine the steering stem using raw stock that's about an inch longer than the actual stem. This allows us to clamp on to that longer portion with the lathe chuck and machine the entire length of the stem in one setup. Doing it this way keeps everything as concentric as possible and keeps a better overall finish.

The stem is then "tab parted"; it's still connected to the carrier, but just barely. We break it off of the carrier by hand, but that leaves a sharp edge. The sharp edge is removed on the manual lathe as it's super simple to do and we can be finishing stems manually while the CNC lathe does the hard work in parallel.

That's one of the first things I tell people if I ever have someone I'm training, always leave a handle if possible or double end the part and then separate at the end.
1
Luxon MX
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Fantasy
7/16/2022 10:06am
Broseph wrote:
My uneducated guess is the cnc lathe can do the stem complete save for the chamfers on the bottom. So it’s flipped, chucked in the manual...
My uneducated guess is the cnc lathe can do the stem complete save for the chamfers on the bottom. So it’s flipped, chucked in the manual lathe, then ID/OD chamfered. Possibly faced as well, depending on whether or not the parting tool from OP1 left an acceptable finish.

Edit: Billy with the holeshot.
Exactly. The part off tool handles the OD chamfer and finished face. The manual lathe only hits the ID chamfer.
3
Jroc
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CA
7/16/2022 10:06am
Luxon MX wrote:
All of our steering stems are finished on our Hardinge manual lathe. But of course, the majority of the part is CNC machined. "CNC Machined" is...
All of our steering stems are finished on our Hardinge manual lathe. But of course, the majority of the part is CNC machined.

"CNC Machined" is typically (but not always) used in marketing to differentiate that the part is machined from billet rather than initially cast or forged. Of course most all cast/forged parts are finished on the CNC machine to create threads, final bore sizes, etc., but it's a small part of the overall manufacturing of the part.

The biggest reason you see the term all over the place is because that's what many customers want. It's generally thought to be a better process that results in a higher end part.
indy_maico wrote:
Very interesting that you finish the steering stems on a manual lathe.

Just wondering why (unless that is a manufacturing secret!)
I would say it has to do with cost. The hourly rate on a manual lathe is much lower than a CNC. If there is not much to machine than it may be more economical on a manual lathe.
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vdrsnk04
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IL US
7/16/2022 10:26am Edited Date/Time 7/16/2022 10:41am
What term would you rather they use then “CNC machined” ?

I mean you aren’t arguing that these products are in fact “CNC machined”. So what should they call them instead?

And oh btw some of the parts may not be CNC machined even on productions bikes. They could be manual machines. My company has a rifle product that we produce to the tune of 40k-50k of them annually and one operation is ran on an old Brown & Sharpe mill. We also run millions of pieces annually that get ran through world war era centerless grinder machines. There would would be many centerless ground components in a mx bike.
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devotid
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7/16/2022 10:38am
I used to own a wakeboard company back in the 00's and we called the wood glue "H20 infused polymer adhesive" because we used glue that has to be mixed with water... The riders ate that shit up.

Relax.
13
Jeremy A.K.
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7/16/2022 10:51am
devotid wrote:
I used to own a wakeboard company back in the 00's and we called the wood glue "H20 infused polymer adhesive" because we used glue that...
I used to own a wakeboard company back in the 00's and we called the wood glue "H20 infused polymer adhesive" because we used glue that has to be mixed with water... The riders ate that shit up.

Relax.
I know a painter who will cover your floor and furniture with a poly drop cloth
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philG
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GB
7/17/2022 11:10am
vdrsnk04 wrote:
What term would you rather they use then “CNC machined” ? I mean you aren’t arguing that these products are in fact “CNC machined”. So what...
What term would you rather they use then “CNC machined” ?

I mean you aren’t arguing that these products are in fact “CNC machined”. So what should they call them instead?

And oh btw some of the parts may not be CNC machined even on productions bikes. They could be manual machines. My company has a rifle product that we produce to the tune of 40k-50k of them annually and one operation is ran on an old Brown & Sharpe mill. We also run millions of pieces annually that get ran through world war era centerless grinder machines. There would would be many centerless ground components in a mx bike.
We had a rotary table grinder that dated back to 1921 , but all its doing is grinding stuff flat... grinding is relatively low tech and hasnt changed for years..

We grind Fir Tree roots on aero blades , and essentially the blades are ground, and the discs are broached, both are methods as old as engineering .

But we also 5 Axis machine blades from bar.. that is proper clever, and has been said , the trick is always to leave yourself as much as you can to hold, and do as much as you can in one operation, it makes it easier.

My speciality is Fan Cases , and OGV assemblies, cases are 4m dia and 1m tall with 4 to 5mm wall thicknesses.. everything has to run true within 0.25mm, and the OGV is the bit in the front of the engine that doesnt turn .

I measure that on a 40 year old machines, cos accuracy never gets old.
KONG
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7/17/2022 11:19am
"CNC Machining is a subtractive manufacturing method that uses cutting tools to remove material from a block of raw material or a pre-existing part"

Indy-maico, can't see how a cast clamp ot hub has anything to do with CNC machining.
Huh
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FastEddy
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💀, FL US
7/17/2022 12:23pm
Yep - CNC Machining is the way to do things these days.
Even a lot of stuff we use in ever day life is cnc machined or made from a mold that was made by a cnc machine.

I'm wondering if anyone on Vital has bought a cnc machine yet for their shop or garage?

early
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7/17/2022 12:26pm
Used to be that cast and forged parts were not as good as parts made from billet. Impurities and air bubbles would cause parts to be weak, or the tolerance on the casting would be off so case ports wouldn't line up perfectly between both sides. You would get cases "blueprinted" so they would have a higher tolerance to the drawing and match up better for better performance. Casting and forging techniques and QC have gotten better for most major manufacturers and there more finish machining happening now that CNC's are much cheaper and more common.

Nowadays "CNC Machined" is pretty much code for "small production run" which has its positives and negatives.
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kb228
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7/17/2022 2:11pm
Cnc machined, billet, military grade, aircraft grade alumimum, and “stage xyz” all grind my gears.
2
mxshot
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7/17/2022 2:14pm
this reminds me of the "SSS" KYB front fork system name, for Speed Sensitive System". ALL damping systems are speed sensitive.
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Richy
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7/17/2022 2:21pm
early wrote:
Used to be that cast and forged parts were not as good as parts made from billet. Impurities and air bubbles would cause parts to be...
Used to be that cast and forged parts were not as good as parts made from billet. Impurities and air bubbles would cause parts to be weak, or the tolerance on the casting would be off so case ports wouldn't line up perfectly between both sides. You would get cases "blueprinted" so they would have a higher tolerance to the drawing and match up better for better performance. Casting and forging techniques and QC have gotten better for most major manufacturers and there more finish machining happening now that CNC's are much cheaper and more common.

Nowadays "CNC Machined" is pretty much code for "small production run" which has its positives and negatives.
I was thinking along those lines too, it conjures images for the average consumer of parts being milled out of a nice fancy billet and just makes things sound fancy. Makes sense from a marketing standpoint but in reality it means very little as you and a few other here have said 👍
Richy
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7/17/2022 2:22pm
kb228 wrote:
Cnc machined, billet, military grade, aircraft grade alumimum, and “stage xyz” all grind my gears.
Dude yessss, the 'stage' thing drives me nuts... I do a lot of wiring so the mil spec thing pisses me off also, there are often far better options for motorsport than what the military may choose to use.
kb228
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7/17/2022 3:00pm
kb228 wrote:
Cnc machined, billet, military grade, aircraft grade alumimum, and “stage xyz” all grind my gears.
Richy wrote:
Dude yessss, the 'stage' thing drives me nuts... I do a lot of wiring so the mil spec thing pisses me off also, there are often...
Dude yessss, the 'stage' thing drives me nuts... I do a lot of wiring so the mil spec thing pisses me off also, there are often far better options for motorsport than what the military may choose to use.
Not to mention if you talk to someone in the service, 10/10 chance theyre going to tell you their stuff is full on junk made as cheaply as possible
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McG194
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7/17/2022 4:40pm Edited Date/Time 7/18/2022 6:04am
indy_maico wrote:
New bikes are all coming out, and the most over-used term in motorcycles and the associated products has to be 'CNC machined' I have news for...
New bikes are all coming out, and the most over-used term in motorcycles and the associated products has to be 'CNC machined'

I have news for everyone, well maybe not everyone, but EVERY machine part on every bike is CNC machined.

Every triple clamp, no matter if it is billet, forged, or cast. Every hub. Every footpeg, every engine mount, well, you get the picture.

It is not a special feature, so I really don't know why it is in every press release, magazine article and bike test.

Unless you have a works bike, there is no one standing over a manual Bridgeport mill or Cincinnati lathe whittling parts out to bolt on your bike.

Everything is CNC machined!
Complains about using gucci terms like CNC Machined then throws a "billet" in there.

Sorry, that's my pet peeve as a machinist of over 20 years experience I've never heard anyone in a tool room use that term. I have heard guys say "I need to get a hunk of iron" even if it was the most exotic alloy in the shop. We made the pumps for the Space Shuttle and the hunk of iron was about $180K and even the titanium salesman didn't call it "billet."
ti473
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7/17/2022 4:56pm
OP, i don't know what exactly you're referring to, but i would think that the term "CNC Machined" is used to describe a part that is machined in its entirety vs a cast/forged/etc part that only has certain features machined.
7/17/2022 6:15pm
FastEddy wrote:
Yep - CNC Machining is the way to do things these days. Even a lot of stuff we use in ever day life is cnc machined...
Yep - CNC Machining is the way to do things these days.
Even a lot of stuff we use in ever day life is cnc machined or made from a mold that was made by a cnc machine.

I'm wondering if anyone on Vital has bought a cnc machine yet for their shop or garage?

I've got several CNC machines. Haas VF3 3+2 vertical mill, Daewoo 230MS lathe, Bendtech Dragon A400, Adira 6 axis 230 ton CNC press brake, and a 5x10 CNCplasma/router table

You can actually buy very affordable tabletop mill or plasma from langmuir.
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Broseph
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7/17/2022 6:16pm
KONG wrote:
"CNC Machining is a subtractive manufacturing method that uses cutting tools to remove material from a block of raw material or a pre-existing part" Indy-maico, can't...
"CNC Machining is a subtractive manufacturing method that uses cutting tools to remove material from a block of raw material or a pre-existing part"

Indy-maico, can't see how a cast clamp ot hub has anything to do with CNC machining.
Huh
Cast hubs and forged clamps are both finish machined on CNC equipment.
2
Jeremy A.K.
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7/17/2022 6:26pm
I like when the guys outside the trade see something running and say "so you just put that in there and hit go? "
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kawasa84
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7/18/2022 1:50am
Doing some CNC machining as I read this. Being in aerospace I’ve machined my share of high grade materials. A lot of titanium billet & titanium forgings. Aluminum & now mostly carbon fiber.

6
SEEMEFIRST
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7/18/2022 3:49am
I like when the guys outside the trade see something running and say "so you just put that in there and hit go? "
"The machine does all the work".
526
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Colgate, WI US
7/18/2022 4:48am
I like when the guys outside the trade see something running and say "so you just put that in there and hit go? "
In a production environment that's what they do, they programmers if they are good did all the thinking. Load the part push the button wait 30secs unload the part load the new part and Hopefully work a 8hr shift.
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