AC/TC 222 no start money

GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 6/13/2022 5:37am
6/13/2022 5:37am
Is he leaving now, or after High Point? It would be disappointing and a bit embarrassing if his US nationals exposure is limited to Pala, Hangtown and Thunder Valley.
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resetjet
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resetjet 6/13/2022 6:04am
6/13/2022 6:04am
Ktm only cares about winning races. They dont even have a brand ambassador in the us. Dungey was the guy for the job. You either perform or go home. Its short sighted business. I am not sure they know how many guys are still riding suzukis because rc or cr dominated on them years ago.
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Boomslang 6/13/2022 6:16am
6/13/2022 6:16am
222 said he extended his stay for two more rounds (Thunder Valley and High Point)

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DEMONDAVE
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DEMONDAVE 6/13/2022 6:22am
6/13/2022 6:22am
crowe660 wrote:
Wonder what this dub is costing KTM. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/06/13/554919/s1200_E78CD56E_B19B_4034_8321_B03C215C281E.jpg[/img]
Wonder what this dub is costing KTM.


CPR wrote:
Wait what is that? And what is Webb doing there?
Boomslang wrote:
Thats lame if Webb is poaching on the side but is not well enough to race the Nats.
"best off season EVER !!!!!! part 2 "
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Cameron Zimick 6/13/2022 6:33am
6/13/2022 6:33am
crowe660 wrote:
Wonder what this dub is costing KTM. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/06/13/554919/s1200_E78CD56E_B19B_4034_8321_B03C215C281E.jpg[/img]
Wonder what this dub is costing KTM.


I thought Cooper Webb was hurt and dealing with injuries and couldn’t race outdoors????? I’m so confused how can he race a local race if he is so injured and hurt??? Hmmm weird
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LungButter
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LungButter 6/13/2022 6:44am
6/13/2022 6:44am
Nice move Rog….
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Sunhouse
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Sunhouse 6/13/2022 6:50am
6/13/2022 6:50am
Can someone plese explain to me what «start money» is?
Is it pay to show up to work/commitments, or are we talking in addition to regular salary and bonuses?
I remember start money for international SX was what would make the US riders bother doing Bercy and Fukuoka. This is not the same?
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Dirt.Squirt
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Dirt.Squirt 6/13/2022 6:54am
6/13/2022 6:54am
Never change KTM….
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plowboy
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plowboy 6/13/2022 7:05am
6/13/2022 7:05am
No idea what the bottom line is to this story. I'll reserve judgment or comment til we know more (if we ever do). I do know it's been a real pleasure watching Tony. Hate too see him go but glad we got to see him. Thanks AC Smile
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Beeby
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Beeby 6/13/2022 7:22am
6/13/2022 7:22am
It might be a basic thing with his visa. If he is earning money he is earning a living here and would need a different type of visa to be here. If he is on holiday, he can be here like any other tourist
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VanDan
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VanDan 6/13/2022 7:26am
6/13/2022 7:26am
Beeby wrote:
It might be a basic thing with his visa. If he is earning money he is earning a living here and would need a different type...
It might be a basic thing with his visa. If he is earning money he is earning a living here and would need a different type of visa to be here. If he is on holiday, he can be here like any other tourist
He's been earning prize money every race, so presumably that has already been figured out?
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Ob917
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Ob917 6/13/2022 7:37am
6/13/2022 7:37am
Having that guy here has really spiced up the series, I love seeing him race here. I would have thought KTM begged him (and Dunge) to come race since their team results have been shit this year.

I’m not sure about their management lately,
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yz133rider
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yz133rider 6/13/2022 7:40am
6/13/2022 7:40am
Beeby wrote:
It might be a basic thing with his visa. If he is earning money he is earning a living here and would need a different type...
It might be a basic thing with his visa. If he is earning money he is earning a living here and would need a different type of visa to be here. If he is on holiday, he can be here like any other tourist
He’s traveled the world for 20 years making money professionally...
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Hollywood009 6/13/2022 7:42am
6/13/2022 7:42am
I am sure AC222 has his own personal sponsors and is still getting paid decently through them...

I can totally see KTM not paying him, the initial deal was more of a publicity stunt, with no realistic expectations for wins or podiums... Now 3 weeks later, it turns out he is by far their best rider, he has a right to ask about money. At this point KTM needs him more then he needs KTM, so hopefully the team makes him a deal.
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VanDan
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VanDan 6/13/2022 7:44am
6/13/2022 7:44am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2022 7:46am
Ob917 wrote:
Having that guy here has really spiced up the series, I love seeing him race here. I would have thought KTM begged him (and Dunge) to...
Having that guy here has really spiced up the series, I love seeing him race here. I would have thought KTM begged him (and Dunge) to come race since their team results have been shit this year.

I’m not sure about their management lately,
KTM did not beg him, otherwise this would've been a non-starter.

It was a busman's holiday for Cairoli but it seems like he wants to continue and be paid appropriately now.

Doesn't look like KTM will step up. Jill has indicated they will be leaving for Italy soon, whether that is before or after High Point is unclear.
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disbanded
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disbanded 6/13/2022 7:44am
6/13/2022 7:44am
Makes perfect sense to send your best guy packing.
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peltier626 6/13/2022 7:48am
6/13/2022 7:48am
This is a world class sport they said.
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Beeby
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Beeby 6/13/2022 7:52am
6/13/2022 7:52am
Beeby wrote:
It might be a basic thing with his visa. If he is earning money he is earning a living here and would need a different type...
It might be a basic thing with his visa. If he is earning money he is earning a living here and would need a different type of visa to be here. If he is on holiday, he can be here like any other tourist
yz133rider wrote:
He’s traveled the world for 20 years making money professionally...
Tell that to the person at the US CBP desk. They don’t give a damn who you are
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 6/13/2022 7:54am
6/13/2022 7:54am
I just do not get the thinking at KTM. Tony riding the nationals is the best PR and marketing KTM can possibly have this year, and they are going to stop it over because they don't want to give him some salary? Take the bonus money they had set aside for Herlings and pay Tony 200k to finish the nationals.

This must just be old school thinking, in that, if he is not winning or on the podium there is no marketing value. It's just stupidity.
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USA
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USA 6/13/2022 7:56am
6/13/2022 7:56am
You guys heard Roger, we need to do better.
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 6/13/2022 7:58am
6/13/2022 7:58am
stoop wrote:
Let’s pass the hat around so Tony can stay longer
agn5008 wrote:
I don’t think Tony needs our money to stay. It sucks Tony isn’t getting paid but I’m willing to bet Tony himself went to KTM and...
I don’t think Tony needs our money to stay.

It sucks Tony isn’t getting paid but I’m willing to bet Tony himself went to KTM and said he wanted to do a few US nationals and asked for a bike/rig/support. They gave all of that to him.

Or maybe I’m wrong and they asked Tony to do a few nationals. Either way, Tony knew what the deal was and was apparently fine with it. With how he has performed this season so far KTM should be asking him to stay and forking over a nice check (maybe they have and Tony declined?)

There are a lot of assumptions and baseless claims in this thread.
This is the right answer. AC said himself he was on an ambassador program and only planned to do two races anyway. He is now doing four and that's not free for KTM either with bike/mechanic etc. They are absolutely still paying Herlings and Webb and although it would be cool for them to pay Tony, the money may just not be there. These threads always amaze me that some of you guys think because they are a corporation there is some unlimited pile of cash somewhere. I am sure KTM would love to keep him going and create a bonus program, but this was very last minute so any insurance option etc is gone and he was only doing two races to begin with.......so there is that. I
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yz133rider
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yz133rider 6/13/2022 7:58am
6/13/2022 7:58am
sandtrack315 wrote:
I just do not get the thinking at KTM. Tony riding the nationals is the best PR and marketing KTM can possibly have this year, and...
I just do not get the thinking at KTM. Tony riding the nationals is the best PR and marketing KTM can possibly have this year, and they are going to stop it over because they don't want to give him some salary? Take the bonus money they had set aside for Herlings and pay Tony 200k to finish the nationals.

This must just be old school thinking, in that, if he is not winning or on the podium there is no marketing value. It's just stupidity.
Agreed. Not to mention the lack of loyalty to someone of AC222s caliber.

This level of disrespect is really rubbing me the wrong way.


I supported ktm because they made bikes the consumer wanted. But this could be enough to push me somewhere else. Not that they care, but I doubt I’m alone.

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VanDan
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VanDan 6/13/2022 8:03am
6/13/2022 8:03am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2022 8:04am
sandtrack315 wrote:
I just do not get the thinking at KTM. Tony riding the nationals is the best PR and marketing KTM can possibly have this year, and...
I just do not get the thinking at KTM. Tony riding the nationals is the best PR and marketing KTM can possibly have this year, and they are going to stop it over because they don't want to give him some salary? Take the bonus money they had set aside for Herlings and pay Tony 200k to finish the nationals.

This must just be old school thinking, in that, if he is not winning or on the podium there is no marketing value. It's just stupidity.
yz133rider wrote:
Agreed. Not to mention the lack of loyalty to someone of AC222s caliber. This level of disrespect is really rubbing me the wrong way. I supported...
Agreed. Not to mention the lack of loyalty to someone of AC222s caliber.

This level of disrespect is really rubbing me the wrong way.


I supported ktm because they made bikes the consumer wanted. But this could be enough to push me somewhere else. Not that they care, but I doubt I’m alone.

On the flip side, you could argue KTM were loyal to Cairoli. He has won one GP title since 2014.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 6/13/2022 8:04am
6/13/2022 8:04am
sandtrack315 wrote:
I just do not get the thinking at KTM. Tony riding the nationals is the best PR and marketing KTM can possibly have this year, and...
I just do not get the thinking at KTM. Tony riding the nationals is the best PR and marketing KTM can possibly have this year, and they are going to stop it over because they don't want to give him some salary? Take the bonus money they had set aside for Herlings and pay Tony 200k to finish the nationals.

This must just be old school thinking, in that, if he is not winning or on the podium there is no marketing value. It's just stupidity.
yz133rider wrote:
Agreed. Not to mention the lack of loyalty to someone of AC222s caliber. This level of disrespect is really rubbing me the wrong way. I supported...
Agreed. Not to mention the lack of loyalty to someone of AC222s caliber.

This level of disrespect is really rubbing me the wrong way.


I supported ktm because they made bikes the consumer wanted. But this could be enough to push me somewhere else. Not that they care, but I doubt I’m alone.

Totally, I have never been a huge fan of KTMs, but seeing Tony on the bike over here gave me some positive vibes on KTM for sure. Now I am even less of a fan of KTMs.
gt80rider
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gt80rider 6/13/2022 8:04am
6/13/2022 8:04am
Richy wrote:
Between this and how they screwed over Kailub Russell, and countless other little things, it's enough to leave you with a bad taste... Like with Russell...
Between this and how they screwed over Kailub Russell, and countless other little things, it's enough to leave you with a bad taste... Like with Russell, as with Cairolli, it isn't about wins it's about giving a rider who has helped put you on the map in one area try their hand at another while being rewarded as a company with massive exposure and fan support, it's a win for both parties.

I know business is business, but it's feeling like a recurring theme of them having no loyalty to their guys, in situations like this which is a grey area where it isn't all about results and wins.
Trying soooo hard not to post in this ktm thread.... but I just can't take it any longer... in my eyes... just a matter of time until everyone figures out how ktm really treats people... all those shiny marketing dollars can not hide what's really going on over there....
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TheGetFresh 6/13/2022 8:16am
6/13/2022 8:16am
I went to thunder valley this year specifically because Cairoli and Dungey were racing and I wanted a chance to see that in person. I drove 8 hours to watch two retired guys ride KTMs. The draw of those two is more than just results, even though they are the only real chance KTM have at getting a podium.

KTM is trudging through what could be—by their own standard—an embarrassment of a year. It’s looking likely that the company will go a full year without a single title in SX, MX, and GPs in both 450 and 250s (we’ll see if Vialle can do something). Dungey and Cairoli not only overshadowed the mess of a year KTM has on their hands, but managed to turn their outdoor program into one of the biggest draws of the series.

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Dirty Points 6/13/2022 8:20am
6/13/2022 8:20am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2022 8:31am
TheGetFresh wrote:
I went to thunder valley this year specifically because Cairoli and Dungey were racing and I wanted a chance to see that in person. I drove...
I went to thunder valley this year specifically because Cairoli and Dungey were racing and I wanted a chance to see that in person. I drove 8 hours to watch two retired guys ride KTMs. The draw of those two is more than just results, even though they are the only real chance KTM have at getting a podium.

KTM is trudging through what could be—by their own standard—an embarrassment of a year. It’s looking likely that the company will go a full year without a single title in SX, MX, and GPs in both 450 and 250s (we’ll see if Vialle can do something). Dungey and Cairoli not only overshadowed the mess of a year KTM has on their hands, but managed to turn their outdoor program into one of the biggest draws of the series.

Same. Attended nationals after quite a few years off to see Dunge and AC ride.

Brought 5 people with me. Took kids who are still forming brand affinitys down to the pits to see the KTM rig and those guys. Then watched all KTM riders who weren't Dunge or Cairoli get their asses handed to them.
cmotodad
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cmotodad 6/13/2022 8:25am
6/13/2022 8:25am
I toowent to Pala to watch AC and the Dunge. The track and traffic always detered me. It was well worth it to see the 2 retired guys beating all the other KTM salary riders.
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PFitzG38
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PFitzG38 6/13/2022 8:42am
6/13/2022 8:42am
Oh No! APs not winning, Coopers a little tired, Marvs off the bike. No team can win every year. This just isn’t KTMs year, you guys are kind or over reacting which is typical for Vital I guess
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Goon645
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Goon645 6/13/2022 8:57am
6/13/2022 8:57am
paging Brent Norman Laughing Laughing Hope this all gets worked out, seems a bit silly for KTM to not meet him in the middle and keep him in for the whole series. Ill reserve my pitchfork for when Dunge bails due to lackluster results (in his opinion) and Cairoli is back in Italy. Until then ill stay positiveSilly
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