Stark Varg Reviews

idworx
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idworx 6/10/2022 8:52am
6/10/2022 8:52am
idworx wrote:
Ha ha, still 6 kWh of energy in the battery, that is less than the equivalent of one liter of gasoline...
garasaki wrote:
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency. The...
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency.

The usable energy in the motors is what actually matters.

If you extrapolate that idea out, the difference between ICE and elec is the availability of the fuel at the track. We all carry ICE "batteries" to the track with us, like it's no big deal. And we have to plan around charging up our ICE batteries, and we don't really bat an eye at the idea of paying for that charge.

So would it really be that different for us to buy elec batteries to bring to the track, instead of a gas can?
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6 kWh is still nothing. You would need at least 20 kWh but that would not fit and would be much too heavy. A ICE MX bike has 7,5 liters on board which is about about 65 kWh of energy!
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idworx
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idworx 6/10/2022 8:53am
6/10/2022 8:53am
Brad460 wrote:
I get the bike feels light and nimble, but I am guessing it is heavier than a current 450. How does that heavier weight feel when...
I get the bike feels light and nimble, but I am guessing it is heavier than a current 450. How does that heavier weight feel when landing from a jump? The heavier weight has got to be noticed somewhere..no?
Falcon wrote:
One test I read mentioned that it feels like a 125 on the track, from a weight perspective.
because the battery is tiny with only 6kWh!
14
Silas444
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Silas444 6/10/2022 8:53am
6/10/2022 8:53am
There's details to work out, yes, but what a great day this is for the sport of motocross. I am a very lucky dude, I have my own track and it's a great loop with great dirt and elevation changes and lotsa beautiful trees. Problem is, a lake borders the property that has lovely cottages along it's shoreline, so even though they don't complain about the noise, I know it must be a nuisance. Therefore, I limit my riding and track days. NO MORE. Myself and the some of the guys have Stark Vargs already on order, and these test reviews will push some of the others over the edge I'm sure; so next year will be the best year ever.

God, what I wouldn't give to be 16 again. Then again, 61 is just 16 with the numbers rearranged, right? Right.
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garasaki
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garasaki 6/10/2022 8:53am
6/10/2022 8:53am
idworx wrote:
Ha ha, still 6 kWh of energy in the battery, that is less than the equivalent of one liter of gasoline...
garasaki wrote:
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency. The...
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency.

The usable energy in the motors is what actually matters.

If you extrapolate that idea out, the difference between ICE and elec is the availability of the fuel at the track. We all carry ICE "batteries" to the track with us, like it's no big deal. And we have to plan around charging up our ICE batteries, and we don't really bat an eye at the idea of paying for that charge.

So would it really be that different for us to buy elec batteries to bring to the track, instead of a gas can?
idworx wrote:
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6...
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6 kWh is still nothing. You would need at least 20 kWh but that would not fit and would be much too heavy. A ICE MX bike has 7,5 liters on board which is about about 65 kWh of energy!
Except, again, the efficiency of the elec motor is much more than 3 times that of the ICE motor
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idworx
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idworx 6/10/2022 8:55am
6/10/2022 8:55am
garasaki wrote:
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency. The...
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency.

The usable energy in the motors is what actually matters.

If you extrapolate that idea out, the difference between ICE and elec is the availability of the fuel at the track. We all carry ICE "batteries" to the track with us, like it's no big deal. And we have to plan around charging up our ICE batteries, and we don't really bat an eye at the idea of paying for that charge.

So would it really be that different for us to buy elec batteries to bring to the track, instead of a gas can?
idworx wrote:
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6...
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6 kWh is still nothing. You would need at least 20 kWh but that would not fit and would be much too heavy. A ICE MX bike has 7,5 liters on board which is about about 65 kWh of energy!
garasaki wrote:
Except, again, the efficiency of the elec motor is much more than 3 times that of the ICE motor
no its not.
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garasaki
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garasaki 6/10/2022 8:56am
6/10/2022 8:56am Edited Date/Time 6/10/2022 9:03am
idworx wrote:
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6...
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6 kWh is still nothing. You would need at least 20 kWh but that would not fit and would be much too heavy. A ICE MX bike has 7,5 liters on board which is about about 65 kWh of energy!
garasaki wrote:
Except, again, the efficiency of the elec motor is much more than 3 times that of the ICE motor
idworx wrote:
no its not.
https://rentar.com/efficient-engines-thermodynamics-combustion-efficien…

"While Toyota claims the thermal efficiency of gasoline engines is 20%"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine

"Even when aided with turbochargers and stock efficiency aids, most engines retain an average efficiency of about 18–20%"
-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 6/10/2022 9:00am
6/10/2022 9:00am
Added Electric Cycle Rider video.
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theycallmeebryan 6/10/2022 9:00am
6/10/2022 9:00am
idworx wrote:
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6...
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6 kWh is still nothing. You would need at least 20 kWh but that would not fit and would be much too heavy. A ICE MX bike has 7,5 liters on board which is about about 65 kWh of energy!
garasaki wrote:
Except, again, the efficiency of the elec motor is much more than 3 times that of the ICE motor
idworx wrote:
no its not.
Dude ive raced many local races that were 18minutes +1 lap (which is long for local races, usually they are only 4 laps) and my Alta MXR used about 70% battery with me pushing as hard as i could the entire time. The Varg has a bit better battery design allowing each cell to be cooled evenly, and the Varg is lighter than the MXR. I dont think a 30+2 is unrealistic on the Varg.
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lee82
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lee82 6/10/2022 9:05am
6/10/2022 9:05am
idworx wrote:
Ha ha, still 6 kWh of energy in the battery, that is less than the equivalent of one liter of gasoline...
garasaki wrote:
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency. The...
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency.

The usable energy in the motors is what actually matters.

If you extrapolate that idea out, the difference between ICE and elec is the availability of the fuel at the track. We all carry ICE "batteries" to the track with us, like it's no big deal. And we have to plan around charging up our ICE batteries, and we don't really bat an eye at the idea of paying for that charge.

So would it really be that different for us to buy elec batteries to bring to the track, instead of a gas can?
idworx wrote:
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6...
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6 kWh is still nothing. You would need at least 20 kWh but that would not fit and would be much too heavy. A ICE MX bike has 7,5 liters on board which is about about 65 kWh of energy!
My Tesla only has around 60 kWh, with a total weight of 5000 pounds with the kids in it, and I can drive it for 5-6 hours before it needs to be charged. The varg has 20% better energy / weight capacity if youre a 160-170 lb rider. I don't see the battery crapping out in less than 30 mins unless you are FLYING and riding in really inefficient conditions like deep sand or mud.
1
OrangeJuice158 6/10/2022 9:06am
6/10/2022 9:06am
garasaki wrote:
Except, again, the efficiency of the elec motor is much more than 3 times that of the ICE motor
And you should be able to take advantage of lots of regen on a mx track.
idworx
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idworx 6/10/2022 9:14am
6/10/2022 9:14am
The problem is not the e-motor, but the current lithium batteries which have an energy density that is almost 1/100 of gasoline. Take the Tesla S battery: only 100 kWh and it weights almost 1400 Pounds. 100 kWh of gasoline weigh ca. 17 Pounds! And lets not talk about the huge size of the Tesla battery... Besides this "small" problem e-drive systems are great.
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cappelmans
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cappelmans 6/10/2022 9:21am
6/10/2022 9:21am
ML512 wrote:
MXA didn’t attend. If you read in our review we mention there was a couple days of testing that got cancelled and rescheduled. One of those...
MXA didn’t attend. If you read in our review we mention there was a couple days of testing that got cancelled and rescheduled. One of those days was the date we were supposed to test on and MXA. We rescheduled but MXA didn’t. Mosiman was their guy for the test and he had the Fox Raceway National to do instead and they didn’t have another guy they’d want to send in his place.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Stark listed MXA as one of the review outlets, so I naturally assumed they were there.

Man, talk about a missed opportunity for Mosiman.
I like MXA but this is facepalm worthy. Probably the highest anticipated bike release in a while and the most core mag is not there.
4
Muscle-Milk-KTM 6/10/2022 9:25am
6/10/2022 9:25am
They should take it to Lommel……in the winter. I wonder how long the range would be then?
4
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Cayden Thompson 6/10/2022 9:35am
6/10/2022 9:35am
Muscle-Milk-KTM wrote:
They should take it to Lommel……in the winter. I wonder how long the range would be then?
Maybe 20 minutes tops.
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idworx
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idworx 6/10/2022 9:36am
6/10/2022 9:36am
Muscle-Milk-KTM wrote:
They should take it to Lommel……in the winter. I wonder how long the range would be then?
I would guess not even 15 minutes...
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keinz
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keinz 6/10/2022 10:00am
6/10/2022 10:00am
idworx wrote:
Ha ha, still 6 kWh of energy in the battery, that is less than the equivalent of one liter of gasoline...
garasaki wrote:
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency. The...
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency.

The usable energy in the motors is what actually matters.

If you extrapolate that idea out, the difference between ICE and elec is the availability of the fuel at the track. We all carry ICE "batteries" to the track with us, like it's no big deal. And we have to plan around charging up our ICE batteries, and we don't really bat an eye at the idea of paying for that charge.

So would it really be that different for us to buy elec batteries to bring to the track, instead of a gas can?
idworx wrote:
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6...
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6 kWh is still nothing. You would need at least 20 kWh but that would not fit and would be much too heavy. A ICE MX bike has 7,5 liters on board which is about about 65 kWh of energy!
Tesla Model3 has 50 kw battery, and weights 4,065 lbs. Varg has 6 kw battery, and weights 242 lbs.
Do the math
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number six
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number six 6/10/2022 10:00am
6/10/2022 10:00am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
[b]ARTICLES[/b] [url=http://pulpmx.com/podcasts/220607_thomas_stark.mp3]Pulp MX Podcast with Jason Thomas[/url] [url=https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-reviews/stark-varg-electric-motocross-bike-first-ride/]Cycle World[/url] [url=https://www.motoonline.com.au/2022/06/10/tested-stark-varg/]MotoOnline[/url] [url=https://www.motoonline.com.au/2022/06/10/feedback-stark-varg-impressions/]MotoOnline Podcast with Mike Sleeter[/url] [url=https://www.dirtrider.com/story/tests/stark-varg-electric-motocrosser-first-ride-review/]Dirt Rider[/url] [url=https://gatedrop.com/stark-varg-tested/#.YqME2qRE2dM]Gatedrop[/url] [url=https://enduro21.com/en/bikes/latest/tested-stark-varg-electric-off-road-motorcycle-we-rode-it]Enduro 21[/url] [url=https://www.fullnoise.com.au/fullnoise-news/hands-on-with-the-stark-varg-electric-motocross-bike/]FullNoise[/url] [url=https://nl.motocrossmag.be/index.php/2022/06/primeurtest-stark-varg/#.YqLw-6RE2dM]MX Mag[/url] (Dutch) [url=https://www.dirthub.co.uk/stark-varg-electric-mx-bike-test-with-dylan-woodcock-new-horizons-a-stark-future/]Dirt Hub[/url]...
ARTICLES

Pulp MX Podcast with Jason Thomas

Cycle World

MotoOnline

MotoOnline Podcast with Mike Sleeter

Dirt Rider

Gatedrop

Enduro 21

FullNoise

MX Mag (Dutch)

Dirt Hub

Motociclismo (Italian)

MX2K (French)

Electric Cycle Rider

Due Ruote (Italian)

Moto (Italian)

Rust Sports
Wow. you're all over this ... thank you .
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StevenMX
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StevenMX 6/10/2022 10:05am
6/10/2022 10:05am
As someone who use to do testing on early Lithium Polymer battery technology in the aerospace industry years back, one thing I'd like to know is the cycle life of these packs and replacement cost? Average cycle life of a pack and replacement costs will be the new top end/engine rebuild. Average cycle life on a lithium polymer battery can vary drastically from 50-500 cycles depending on the environment (heat/cold) and other various factors). Do they have a solution for cold weather people (heat the battery internally) on cold days as Lithium Polymer battery energy output/capacity drops drastically below 50 degrees F. Conversely, we know moto in the summer is hot as hell, and thermal runaway would be my other concern. Not so much the battery catching fire, but keeping lithium polymer batteries at high temps reduces the cycle life again dramatically in testing. Much like a pro racer vs a vet will go through top ends at different intervals. Would love to get some more color on this from Stark and see what they say, how they are addressing these areas and the costs. Very cool design regardless!
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idworx
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idworx 6/10/2022 10:05am
6/10/2022 10:05am
garasaki wrote:
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency. The...
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency.

The usable energy in the motors is what actually matters.

If you extrapolate that idea out, the difference between ICE and elec is the availability of the fuel at the track. We all carry ICE "batteries" to the track with us, like it's no big deal. And we have to plan around charging up our ICE batteries, and we don't really bat an eye at the idea of paying for that charge.

So would it really be that different for us to buy elec batteries to bring to the track, instead of a gas can?
idworx wrote:
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6...
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6 kWh is still nothing. You would need at least 20 kWh but that would not fit and would be much too heavy. A ICE MX bike has 7,5 liters on board which is about about 65 kWh of energy!
keinz wrote:
Tesla Model3 has 50 kw battery, and weights 4,065 lbs. Varg has 6 kw battery, and weights 242 lbs.
Do the math
Yes, they both don't get very far when driven or ridden hard!
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snillum
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snillum 6/10/2022 10:24am
6/10/2022 10:24am
idworx wrote:
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6...
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6 kWh is still nothing. You would need at least 20 kWh but that would not fit and would be much too heavy. A ICE MX bike has 7,5 liters on board which is about about 65 kWh of energy!
keinz wrote:
Tesla Model3 has 50 kw battery, and weights 4,065 lbs. Varg has 6 kw battery, and weights 242 lbs.
Do the math
idworx wrote:
Yes, they both don't get very far when driven or ridden hard!
We get it man, you don't like the battery size. Just move on with it.
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#434
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#434 6/10/2022 10:27am
6/10/2022 10:27am Edited Date/Time 6/10/2022 10:28am
idworx wrote:
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6...
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6 kWh is still nothing. You would need at least 20 kWh but that would not fit and would be much too heavy. A ICE MX bike has 7,5 liters on board which is about about 65 kWh of energy!
keinz wrote:
Tesla Model3 has 50 kw battery, and weights 4,065 lbs. Varg has 6 kw battery, and weights 242 lbs.
Do the math
idworx wrote:
Yes, they both don't get very far when driven or ridden hard!
Yeah Dude, you‘ve made your point: you don’t believe the battery’s enough, so don’t buy one. No one gives a f..k.

Edit: snillum best me to it
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 6/10/2022 10:32am
6/10/2022 10:32am
Added MX Reflexion video (French).
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SonofThor32
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SonofThor32 6/10/2022 10:35am
6/10/2022 10:35am
Just an observation, you guys flip-flop more than a menopausal woman in a hot bed. LOL.
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JK BRO
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JK BRO 6/10/2022 10:39am
6/10/2022 10:39am
StevenMX wrote:
As someone who use to do testing on early Lithium Polymer battery technology in the aerospace industry years back, one thing I'd like to know is...
As someone who use to do testing on early Lithium Polymer battery technology in the aerospace industry years back, one thing I'd like to know is the cycle life of these packs and replacement cost? Average cycle life of a pack and replacement costs will be the new top end/engine rebuild. Average cycle life on a lithium polymer battery can vary drastically from 50-500 cycles depending on the environment (heat/cold) and other various factors). Do they have a solution for cold weather people (heat the battery internally) on cold days as Lithium Polymer battery energy output/capacity drops drastically below 50 degrees F. Conversely, we know moto in the summer is hot as hell, and thermal runaway would be my other concern. Not so much the battery catching fire, but keeping lithium polymer batteries at high temps reduces the cycle life again dramatically in testing. Much like a pro racer vs a vet will go through top ends at different intervals. Would love to get some more color on this from Stark and see what they say, how they are addressing these areas and the costs. Very cool design regardless!
The only guy who gets it.....

All of this and more has been documented by thousands of RC hobbyists. Battery degradation and density is a real thing. RC's have already moved on from Lithium Ion to the more powerful Lithium Polymer. People act like Ebikes are a revolution but they are using old battery technology from 1985.

Zero maintenance.... keep dreaming.
3
theycallmeebryan 6/10/2022 10:43am
6/10/2022 10:43am Edited Date/Time 6/10/2022 10:46am
StevenMX wrote:
As someone who use to do testing on early Lithium Polymer battery technology in the aerospace industry years back, one thing I'd like to know is...
As someone who use to do testing on early Lithium Polymer battery technology in the aerospace industry years back, one thing I'd like to know is the cycle life of these packs and replacement cost? Average cycle life of a pack and replacement costs will be the new top end/engine rebuild. Average cycle life on a lithium polymer battery can vary drastically from 50-500 cycles depending on the environment (heat/cold) and other various factors). Do they have a solution for cold weather people (heat the battery internally) on cold days as Lithium Polymer battery energy output/capacity drops drastically below 50 degrees F. Conversely, we know moto in the summer is hot as hell, and thermal runaway would be my other concern. Not so much the battery catching fire, but keeping lithium polymer batteries at high temps reduces the cycle life again dramatically in testing. Much like a pro racer vs a vet will go through top ends at different intervals. Would love to get some more color on this from Stark and see what they say, how they are addressing these areas and the costs. Very cool design regardless!
JK BRO wrote:
The only guy who gets it..... All of this and more has been documented by thousands of RC hobbyists. Battery degradation and density is a real...
The only guy who gets it.....

All of this and more has been documented by thousands of RC hobbyists. Battery degradation and density is a real thing. RC's have already moved on from Lithium Ion to the more powerful Lithium Polymer. People act like Ebikes are a revolution but they are using old battery technology from 1985.

Zero maintenance.... keep dreaming.
200 hours over 4 years on my Alta MXR with nearly 500 charging hours in total (mixture of rapid charging 240v 3.3kw at the track with a generator, and 120v standard at home) and if im being hinestly maybe 5% degredation if any, but im also a much much faster rider today thanks to owning the Alta MXR. The bike still performs just as well as the day i bought it. Ive put this bike through 100+degree socal moto sessions. The Varg battery design cools the cells more evenly and efficiently than the Alta which means itll last even better in the long run. The 21700 cells are also a little more efficient than 18650 cells of the Alta.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 6/10/2022 10:47am
6/10/2022 10:47am Edited Date/Time 6/10/2022 10:50am
No one has noted the most important thing: they nailed the chassis, suspension, handling, and fit and finish of the bike. We all know range and reliability will be a work in progress. What's so awesome is that pretty much everyone who rode the bike said they were faster on it by the end of the day, and that it was really fun to ride, but it did not feel like some alien bike. That's impressive, as the frame is totally different, and this is not some legacy OEM that has decades of experience. It's huge what they have been able to do.

My hope is that you can order the 80HP motor, tune it down to be about a 325cc four stroke power, and I will only use up about half if it doing a 40 minute Moto. Then I can charge it up for about 40 minute from my truck or a portable battery station, do another 40, and head home.

Basically, with their first generation product, it's already a viable option for people to switch. No funky handling or chassis, no cheap looking parts or corners cut. Sure, it will have issues as it gets tested in the real world, and we will all figure out how to charge it easily, but I could easily see buying one in a couple years. That's a huge step forward.
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 6/10/2022 10:54am
6/10/2022 10:54am
Added Rust Sports article.
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stone881
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stone881 6/10/2022 10:57am
6/10/2022 10:57am
idworx wrote:
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6...
Because with 6kWh you can't even do one fast moto! Even if you take the efficiency of the E-drive to be three times as high, 6 kWh is still nothing. You would need at least 20 kWh but that would not fit and would be much too heavy. A ICE MX bike has 7,5 liters on board which is about about 65 kWh of energy!
keinz wrote:
Tesla Model3 has 50 kw battery, and weights 4,065 lbs. Varg has 6 kw battery, and weights 242 lbs.
Do the math
idworx wrote:
Yes, they both don't get very far when driven or ridden hard!
It would be cool if you would drive real hard right out of this thread!
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Dirty Points 6/10/2022 11:03am
6/10/2022 11:03am Edited Date/Time 6/10/2022 11:13am
So my broad takeaway from the reviews:

Most questions remain unanswered due to test format, but the consensus is that Stark has put together a bike that is powerful, easy-to-ride, good handling, and fun.

I mean that, in itself, is not small.

We've seen plenty of manufacturers fail to deliver an enjoyable bike in initial effort. BMW, Suzuki, Cannondale all delivered steaming turds in terms of just basic ridability. Harley Davidson's bike was vastly overweight with a light-switch powerband. Honda delivered a jackhammer chassis on it's first attempt at aluminum frames.

So the fundamental question of, "Is this dirt bike fun?" seems to be a resounding yes. That's all we know, but that one's not a gimme.
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SonofThor32
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SonofThor32 6/10/2022 11:03am
6/10/2022 11:03am
StevenMX wrote:
As someone who use to do testing on early Lithium Polymer battery technology in the aerospace industry years back, one thing I'd like to know is...
As someone who use to do testing on early Lithium Polymer battery technology in the aerospace industry years back, one thing I'd like to know is the cycle life of these packs and replacement cost? Average cycle life of a pack and replacement costs will be the new top end/engine rebuild. Average cycle life on a lithium polymer battery can vary drastically from 50-500 cycles depending on the environment (heat/cold) and other various factors). Do they have a solution for cold weather people (heat the battery internally) on cold days as Lithium Polymer battery energy output/capacity drops drastically below 50 degrees F. Conversely, we know moto in the summer is hot as hell, and thermal runaway would be my other concern. Not so much the battery catching fire, but keeping lithium polymer batteries at high temps reduces the cycle life again dramatically in testing. Much like a pro racer vs a vet will go through top ends at different intervals. Would love to get some more color on this from Stark and see what they say, how they are addressing these areas and the costs. Very cool design regardless!
JK BRO wrote:
The only guy who gets it..... All of this and more has been documented by thousands of RC hobbyists. Battery degradation and density is a real...
The only guy who gets it.....

All of this and more has been documented by thousands of RC hobbyists. Battery degradation and density is a real thing. RC's have already moved on from Lithium Ion to the more powerful Lithium Polymer. People act like Ebikes are a revolution but they are using old battery technology from 1985.

Zero maintenance.... keep dreaming.
Imagine what that battery would look when it swells (Assuming you are an RC hobbyist), talk about something to make you nervous. I would have to think the battery would have all sorts of sensors for be safe (which would also obviously raise the cost). Another member pointed out above the battery/maintenance cost comparison to an ICE 4 stroke, but I don't see these batteries costing $500, I would love to be wrong, but I am betting at least 4x that.

You bring up lots of good points though that anybody who races RC stuff the past 15 years would be raising an eyebrow with this new technology hitting MX bikes. These tests were performed under perfect conditions, what about the cold.. What about the amount of time the battery/motor need to cool before using again, ambient temperatures, etc. The next cool thing coming - aftermarket fans. Wink
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