Stark VARG Test, T-Minus Three Months

2/19/2022 1:41pm
It’s electric not a 125, only use for a clutch I can think of on an e bike is to save loopout/whiskey situations. That could potentially be solved by mapping a cutout with heavy rear braking
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2/19/2022 2:32pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
Heard the Alta is terrible in the sand.
rides good in sand, but sucks the life out of the battery
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Gravel
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2/19/2022 2:37pm
Gravel wrote:
Charge time vs run time in the various power levels? How much current does the charger use, aka how big of a generator is needed at...
Charge time vs run time in the various power levels?

How much current does the charger use, aka how big of a generator is needed at the campsite / track?

What’s the mapping software like to use and is it included in the price?

Is mapping adjustable on the fly?

Maintenance items and schedule?

Projected lifespan of the battery and cost of replacement?

What’s the dealership network look like, and how do I get service and parts?

Are any parts compatible with any existing bikes?

Is there a warranty?
#434 wrote:
Most of your questions are already answered by the Varg homepage. Watch their videos.
Most of your questions are already answered by the Varg homepage. Watch their videos.
Admittedly I haven’t seen the videos or anything else, but I don’t have a lot of faith in a new manufacturers advertising data. And the real world answers won’t happen until the bikes are in the wild for a while , but that’s the stuff I want to know before I’d even consider a VARG as more than a really cool toy. Stuff like range when out play riding and hill climbing, I’m way more of a desert camper and play rider these days so my mind goes to how this thing would fit into a 4-5 day camping trip.
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Gravel
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2/19/2022 2:50pm
#434 wrote:
Most of your questions are already answered by the Varg homepage. Watch their videos.
Most of your questions are already answered by the Varg homepage. Watch their videos.
RaceFace58 wrote:
Yeah those are real world numbers…..and my iPhone is supposed to get 6 days on a charge.
#434 wrote:
So you think ML can find his own answers for question 2 to 8 by riding the bike for a few hours?
RTFM

He asked:
“What is everyone going to want to know about this thing beyond the usual riding impression video?”

So I answered the question. I figure they’ll have some or all of the test crew at the event, those guys will already have a decent idea how the bike works real world, if Stark wants to start developing a good reputation as a new brand they’re gonna be somewhat honest.
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The Shop

Falcon
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2/19/2022 3:35pm
What's the engine braking like? (Excuse me, I mean, "motor braking.")
Can it be tuned out to behave more like a 2-stroke?
-MAVERICK-
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2/19/2022 3:41pm
Falcon wrote:
What's the engine braking like? (Excuse me, I mean, "motor braking.")
Can it be tuned out to behave more like a 2-stroke?
I do believe that it's fully tuneable.
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PJRAUS
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3/24/2022 8:39pm
Had to scroll a ways to dig this up again..In view of the many negative comments and attititudes airing fuly in the main Stark Varg thread..Michael, if you could please get into the nitty gritty of individual components, particularly high wear components and if these things are being outsourced from existing suppliers.
There seems to be a recurrent theme here that that history shows that this company will likely go broke and disappear within 5 years, leaving customers with no spare parts availabilty..I disagree...I think we wont have a problem sourcing high wear parts should this actuallly happen..I dont beleive it will happen..but..please find out what would be the likelihood of sourcing brake pads,sprockets, regular use bearings and seals, fork and shock parts etc etc from the aftermarket
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RaceFace58
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3/25/2022 3:55am
PJRAUS wrote:
Had to scroll a ways to dig this up again..In view of the many negative comments and attititudes airing fuly in the main Stark Varg thread..Michael...
Had to scroll a ways to dig this up again..In view of the many negative comments and attititudes airing fuly in the main Stark Varg thread..Michael, if you could please get into the nitty gritty of individual components, particularly high wear components and if these things are being outsourced from existing suppliers.
There seems to be a recurrent theme here that that history shows that this company will likely go broke and disappear within 5 years, leaving customers with no spare parts availabilty..I disagree...I think we wont have a problem sourcing high wear parts should this actuallly happen..I dont beleive it will happen..but..please find out what would be the likelihood of sourcing brake pads,sprockets, regular use bearings and seals, fork and shock parts etc etc from the aftermarket
Stop. How is he supposed to do that? Ask them? Don’t worry about part. They are using components that are available. I’d worry about the things that I’m being told you don’t have to worry about like the motor and battery. Or something no one will comment on and that’s this mini iPad sitting on top of the crossbar that controls the whole damn thing. Or all this tuneability…..that you have to pay a subscription to gain access to. Sprockets and brake pads are easy. I love this concept of selling customers the technology that they need to spend more to unlock it. All the car makers do it too. Nonsense that is.
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wolf18
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3/25/2022 4:09am
How does it hold up after ML512 crashes into a pond lmao!
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RealityCheck
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3/25/2022 5:50am
RaceFace58 wrote:
I want to know what it sounds like ON the bike as it clanks and clunks through the whoops. I’ve heard the silence makes it seem...
I want to know what it sounds like ON the bike as it clanks and clunks through the whoops. I’ve heard the silence makes it seem like the electric bikes are falling apart underneath you with all the other noises being heard.
The clanking and clunking on my Freeride is actually more noticeable on the bike then from the side of the track. It takes some getting used to. The most interesting noise is the sound of the rear tire ripping through dirt, which is very noticeable when on the bike, but not all all noticeable to a bystander.
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RaceFace58
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3/25/2022 8:27am
RaceFace58 wrote:
I want to know what it sounds like ON the bike as it clanks and clunks through the whoops. I’ve heard the silence makes it seem...
I want to know what it sounds like ON the bike as it clanks and clunks through the whoops. I’ve heard the silence makes it seem like the electric bikes are falling apart underneath you with all the other noises being heard.
The clanking and clunking on my Freeride is actually more noticeable on the bike then from the side of the track. It takes some getting used...
The clanking and clunking on my Freeride is actually more noticeable on the bike then from the side of the track. It takes some getting used to. The most interesting noise is the sound of the rear tire ripping through dirt, which is very noticeable when on the bike, but not all all noticeable to a bystander.
I saw the video of Hill going through SX whoops. It sounds like he’s crossing a wooden plank bridge with loose boards. Clop clop clop.
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davis224
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3/25/2022 12:29pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
I want to know what it sounds like ON the bike as it clanks and clunks through the whoops. I’ve heard the silence makes it seem...
I want to know what it sounds like ON the bike as it clanks and clunks through the whoops. I’ve heard the silence makes it seem like the electric bikes are falling apart underneath you with all the other noises being heard.
The clanking and clunking on my Freeride is actually more noticeable on the bike then from the side of the track. It takes some getting used...
The clanking and clunking on my Freeride is actually more noticeable on the bike then from the side of the track. It takes some getting used to. The most interesting noise is the sound of the rear tire ripping through dirt, which is very noticeable when on the bike, but not all all noticeable to a bystander.
When I test rode an Alta the first thing I noticed was I could hear when the tires were breaking traction.

I worked at a dealership when Polaris introduced Ranger EVs, and almost every customer either brought it back or called to complain about noise thinking it was falling apart. You could hear the drive train and the brakes chattering. The fun thing was if you kept it to a crawl, there was ZERO motor noise. Snuck up on a lot of people inside the shop and gave em a little bump.
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davis224
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3/26/2022 10:51am
Thought I'd already asked but apparently not, my main question is a difference between the 60 and 80hp models. If both are tuned to 40-50ish hp (a little less than a 450) what are the differences in run time? Wondering if I should spring for the 80 vs the 60.
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Myke
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3/26/2022 10:55am
wolf18 wrote:
How does it hold up after ML512 crashes into a pond lmao!
I hope they know to put an extra seal on the electronics for him......
Markee
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3/26/2022 11:52am Edited Date/Time 3/26/2022 11:53am
zehn wrote:
Do you have a link or video? I'd be curious to hear his thoughts about it in the sand
Do you have a link or video? I'd be curious to hear his thoughts about it in the sand
2:00 Mark

skypig
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3/26/2022 6:30pm
The difference between:
“125cc 2 stroke, with 80hp” setting. (Good in sand?)
And
“Linier”
Kulpa
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4/3/2022 8:26am
How long will it take to charge the bike from car reverse charging, for example Ford F-150 Lightning should have AC output 7,5 kW (up to 32A 240V) with a 128 kWh - battery in Ford, how long would it take to charge 50% of battery - how many times can you charge the bike battery from 128 kWh.
Of course maybe some electric engineer here can calculate and answer it right away.
4/3/2022 9:05am
Can you bottom out the suspension?
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#434
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4/3/2022 12:43pm
Kulpa wrote:
How long will it take to charge the bike from car reverse charging, for example Ford F-150 Lightning should have AC output 7,5 kW (up to...
How long will it take to charge the bike from car reverse charging, for example Ford F-150 Lightning should have AC output 7,5 kW (up to 32A 240V) with a 128 kWh - battery in Ford, how long would it take to charge 50% of battery - how many times can you charge the bike battery from 128 kWh.
Of course maybe some electric engineer here can calculate and answer it right away.
I‘m no electric enginner, but let me do the highly complicated calculations:
the VARG‘s battery has 6kWh of capacity. So idealily your 7,5 kW outlet should charge it in 48 min (6 kWh / 7.5 kW = 0.8 h) and you should be able to charge it 21.3 times (128 kWh / 6 kWh).
However, nothing is ideal and you shouldn’t drain your car battery fully. So I‘d say you can charge it in a little over an hour and maybe 10 times.
Now, I‘m gonna need a cigarette after this mathematical tour de force Tongue

Cool feature on the F-150! Could come in handy with electric bikes!
mbw479
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4/3/2022 1:20pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2022 1:27pm
I would like to see them drain the battery in several different scenarios to confirm the range, in motocross and single trail forest riding. Also hold it wide open and see how long it takes the battery to overheat and retard the engine, as this was an issue with the Alta.
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ANDY. C
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4/3/2022 1:27pm
The max you can draw in the uk is 16 amps at 240 v.
13 amps residential..
Smerwin43
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4/3/2022 1:46pm
mbw479 wrote:
I would like to see them drain the battery in several different scenarios to confirm the range, in motocross and single trail forest riding. Also hold...
I would like to see them drain the battery in several different scenarios to confirm the range, in motocross and single trail forest riding. Also hold it wide open and see how long it takes the battery to overheat and retard the engine, as this was an issue with the Alta.
I'd like this as well, try multiple maps to failure of the battery (125,250,350,500,650) but that would be very time consuming and I'm not sure how much leeway they will get with the bike. Would really like to see how they hold up with an intermediate rider and get some solid pen on paper run times.
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PJRAUS
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4/4/2022 12:42am
mbw479 wrote:
I would like to see them drain the battery in several different scenarios to confirm the range, in motocross and single trail forest riding. Also hold...
I would like to see them drain the battery in several different scenarios to confirm the range, in motocross and single trail forest riding. Also hold it wide open and see how long it takes the battery to overheat and retard the engine, as this was an issue with the Alta.
Fair enough about draining the battery doing moto ,but why is everyone so worried about trail use? Its a motocross bike, not a trail or enduro bike. Why not wait and save your judgement for when they produce the offroad model? They have clearly stated that it is the next thing they have coming
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mbw479
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4/4/2022 2:21am Edited Date/Time 4/4/2022 2:22am
mbw479 wrote:
I would like to see them drain the battery in several different scenarios to confirm the range, in motocross and single trail forest riding. Also hold...
I would like to see them drain the battery in several different scenarios to confirm the range, in motocross and single trail forest riding. Also hold it wide open and see how long it takes the battery to overheat and retard the engine, as this was an issue with the Alta.
PJRAUS wrote:
Fair enough about draining the battery doing moto ,but why is everyone so worried about trail use? Its a motocross bike, not a trail or enduro...
Fair enough about draining the battery doing moto ,but why is everyone so worried about trail use? Its a motocross bike, not a trail or enduro bike. Why not wait and save your judgement for when they produce the offroad model? They have clearly stated that it is the next thing they have coming
Because I want to use it for both…..
And long track racing.
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tobz
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4/4/2022 2:31am
mbw479 wrote:
I would like to see them drain the battery in several different scenarios to confirm the range, in motocross and single trail forest riding. Also hold...
I would like to see them drain the battery in several different scenarios to confirm the range, in motocross and single trail forest riding. Also hold it wide open and see how long it takes the battery to overheat and retard the engine, as this was an issue with the Alta.
PJRAUS wrote:
Fair enough about draining the battery doing moto ,but why is everyone so worried about trail use? Its a motocross bike, not a trail or enduro...
Fair enough about draining the battery doing moto ,but why is everyone so worried about trail use? Its a motocross bike, not a trail or enduro bike. Why not wait and save your judgement for when they produce the offroad model? They have clearly stated that it is the next thing they have coming
Because they offer an 18 inch rear wheel with kickstand?
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PJRAUS
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4/4/2022 5:04am
mbw479 wrote:
I would like to see them drain the battery in several different scenarios to confirm the range, in motocross and single trail forest riding. Also hold...
I would like to see them drain the battery in several different scenarios to confirm the range, in motocross and single trail forest riding. Also hold it wide open and see how long it takes the battery to overheat and retard the engine, as this was an issue with the Alta.
PJRAUS wrote:
Fair enough about draining the battery doing moto ,but why is everyone so worried about trail use? Its a motocross bike, not a trail or enduro...
Fair enough about draining the battery doing moto ,but why is everyone so worried about trail use? Its a motocross bike, not a trail or enduro bike. Why not wait and save your judgement for when they produce the offroad model? They have clearly stated that it is the next thing they have coming
tobz wrote:
Because they offer an 18 inch rear wheel with kickstand?
Fair enough I suppose...I did see those options when I put my order in ,but was a bit baffled by it as it is supposed to be a full,on mx bike..they've been saying the off road version comes next..Im assuming that the offroad version will have off road suspension options and be configured more for battery duration over outright power and performance , lights and other stuff.
Not into off road side of things myself...If I can get 40 mins out of a charge at more or less max power option...thats gonna be enough for me on any motocross track anywhere, for one day's riding..
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ML512
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4/4/2022 5:45am
wolf18 wrote:
How does it hold up after ML512 crashes into a pond lmao!
That’s high up on our testing list.
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Silas444
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Mid-state, ME US
4/4/2022 5:56am
Will it wash my clothes and cook me lunch and mow my lawn and take out my garbage and buy my groceries and be my best friend?

Oh, if only you'd all been this demanding regarding your ICE bikes. Imagine, if you would, what your questions might be if electric bikes were the historical norm and someone invented a four-stroke 450 and invited a group out to test it. I can think of a few unsettling questions that would be worth asking:

1. Will the valve train and piston ever wear out?
2. Is it true you could hit a false neutral on a jump face and suffer a horrific crash?
3. Is it true you have to shift into a gear and release the clutch lever just to make it go?
4. What happens if the crank bearings seize while you're riding it?
5. If my neighbors complain about the noise, does it have a "Stealth Mode"?
6. Will someone come to my house and change the oil and filters for me?

I swear, when it comes to this bike, some of you are human rain clouds.

ML512: Please thrash it. And don't be afraid to report back how much fun it was. 'Cause it will be.
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Jeff_Brines
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Jackson, WY US
4/4/2022 6:19am
Silas444 wrote:
Will it wash my clothes and cook me lunch and mow my lawn and take out my garbage and buy my groceries and be my best...
Will it wash my clothes and cook me lunch and mow my lawn and take out my garbage and buy my groceries and be my best friend?

Oh, if only you'd all been this demanding regarding your ICE bikes. Imagine, if you would, what your questions might be if electric bikes were the historical norm and someone invented a four-stroke 450 and invited a group out to test it. I can think of a few unsettling questions that would be worth asking:

1. Will the valve train and piston ever wear out?
2. Is it true you could hit a false neutral on a jump face and suffer a horrific crash?
3. Is it true you have to shift into a gear and release the clutch lever just to make it go?
4. What happens if the crank bearings seize while you're riding it?
5. If my neighbors complain about the noise, does it have a "Stealth Mode"?
6. Will someone come to my house and change the oil and filters for me?

I swear, when it comes to this bike, some of you are human rain clouds.

ML512: Please thrash it. And don't be afraid to report back how much fun it was. 'Cause it will be.
You aren't wrong, but there is still one massive reason to be skeptical - the math doesn't add up. I'd bet a lot of money the running time is a fraction of what Stark is suggesting, and this won't change anytime soon.

ML and company, I really hope you pay attention to this. Ride the bike HARD. Don't be swindled by anyone there with respect to how/why they swap bikes out for you.

I've shown my math in a separate thread, but even with ICE efficiency (or lack there of) taken into account, and giving the Stark the benefit of the doubt, the proverbial "gas tank" of ~6kw/h is likely going to perform like a 450 with around 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon of gas in it. Depending on certain variables, it could perform *worse* than this.

If a bike can't be ridden hard for 30 minutes straight, you can't swap batteries easily/quickly, and you can't charge them super fast, is this really the disruptive product they are claiming? I'd also love for someone to test the range in a more traditional off-road setting (my riding style). I'm wagering you can get about 90 minutes of riding, a far cry from the SIX HOURS they are claiming.

I have zero doubts the performance will be there. I'm also an EV fanboi (I own a tesla...and a diesel truck). I just hate the over promising. Theranos vibes all over this one...


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Joko
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4/4/2022 9:11pm
Can they fit a speaker on it with the ability to play 2-stroke sounds that matches the motor speed?
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