New Gen KTM Troubles

Cayden Thompson
Edited Date/Time 2/27/2022 8:37am
I haven't found a thread related to this, so I'm starting my own.

Does anyone have any theories, knowledge, insight, etc as to why the new gen KTM and Huskies are not looking good so far in SX? To me, looks like the riders can't get comfortable especially in the corners. The front end wants to knife and does not look as planted.

Webb:
Started the season off great with a 2nd but has gone downhill from there. Not the Webb I remember, especially as we get more into the series. He usually gets better every round.

Plessinger:
Has had some stand out rides but crashes as well.

Marvin:
Isn't looking good this season, plain and simple

Deano:
About the same results as last year.

Stewart:
Looked better on Star Yami TBH. Which is outlandish because of how "fit" he is this year and training with arguably the best in the sport.

The previous gen looks a lot better with Barcia and Mosiman. Mcelrath also looking good on it.
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LouisianaMotocross 1/29/2022 10:41pm
1/29/2022 10:41pm
They made some changes to the characteristic that made the ktm so unique and good in Supercross.
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enketchum
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enketchum 1/29/2022 10:43pm
1/29/2022 10:43pm
Seems to be the riders
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mattyhamz2 1/29/2022 10:48pm
1/29/2022 10:48pm
After being at the race tonight, other than AP in the heat race, the bike didn’t look good. Coop especially didn’t look good.
JJO741
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JJO741 1/29/2022 10:48pm
1/29/2022 10:48pm
I don’t think the bike is a problem. AP7 looked really good in the heat race battling with Tomac and he got 2nd in Oakland. Not sure what happened with him tonight. Webb hasn’t really looked like himself this year so far. Musquin has been kind of all over the place.

It’s cliché to say, but the 450 class is just stacked. I think we’re starting to see that Sexton, Anderson, Tomac, and Ferrandis have been the fastest speed wise, but other than that it’s been pretty crazy.
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USA
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USA 1/29/2022 11:01pm
1/29/2022 11:01pm
Physically, coop looks off. They showed him and Roger talking at the truck before the mains and coop had bags under his eyes. I can't say I have ever seen him look 'tired' like that for a race. Then in the main it was like 2018 again, totally not the same guy.

Could be a couple things, new bike, new training program, lingering illness, idk, this is not the coop we have seen since 2019 except for A1
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Thisusernameisavailable 1/29/2022 11:17pm
1/29/2022 11:17pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
ImPoSsIble It's JuST a RevISed ModEL

Edit:

Reference

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/2022-SX,1397375?page=1
You still believe they 'parked' the old bike, shredded the note book and everything they learned and started afresh. Right..

What actually happens is they put the old bike on the bench, made some revisions to it, 0.5mm here, half a degree there, 0.5mm revision there, called it "all new" and now in your eyes its an 'all new' orange pig?!

The bike has two 2nd place finishes under two different riders- it aint the bike.
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cbaird254
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cbaird254 1/29/2022 11:23pm
1/29/2022 11:23pm
multiple years of testing on the previous gen bike vs a few months of testing on the new bike must mean something
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Rotaholic
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Rotaholic 1/29/2022 11:25pm
1/29/2022 11:25pm
The qualifying times each week have been right up there, it's not the bike. This season is stacked, I think it's all mental from here.
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Broseph
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Broseph 1/29/2022 11:40pm
1/29/2022 11:40pm Edited Date/Time 1/29/2022 11:41pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
ImPoSsIble It's JuST a RevISed ModEL

Edit:

Reference

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/2022-SX,1397375?page=1
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
You still believe they 'parked' the old bike, shredded the note book and everything they learned and started afresh. Right.. What actually happens is they put...
You still believe they 'parked' the old bike, shredded the note book and everything they learned and started afresh. Right..

What actually happens is they put the old bike on the bench, made some revisions to it, 0.5mm here, half a degree there, 0.5mm revision there, called it "all new" and now in your eyes its an 'all new' orange pig?!

The bike has two 2nd place finishes under two different riders- it aint the bike.
No.

Nobody but you has said anything about parking the old bike and shredding the notebook.

They made changes to a whole bunch of parts. Sometimes changes take a while to sort. That’s all anybody has said.

Noticed you don’t have a profile pic. Can I suggest one?

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Crush
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Crush 1/29/2022 11:43pm
1/29/2022 11:43pm
He’s had a few changes to deal with, but just last week he said he was 1 pt better after three rounds last year… that’s with being sick round two and his starts haven’t been quite there either. I do think we’re seeing him in some slightly more conventional lines but it’s early days to be sounding alarm bells here.
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Tumic
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Tumic 1/30/2022 12:27am
1/30/2022 12:27am
Crush wrote:
He’s had a few changes to deal with, but just last week he said he was 1 pt better after three rounds last year… that’s with...
He’s had a few changes to deal with, but just last week he said he was 1 pt better after three rounds last year… that’s with being sick round two and his starts haven’t been quite there either. I do think we’re seeing him in some slightly more conventional lines but it’s early days to be sounding alarm bells here.
I just feel that when the other riders run at their peak, webb is not faster than this.

We have had a couple of seasons wondering why Anderson, Tomac etc under performed. And now when they are back, Webb don’t have the pace to run with them.
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CPR
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CPR 1/30/2022 1:43am
1/30/2022 1:43am
For fn real?!
Yeah let’s blame the orange pig, despite qualifying times, race finishes, points standings and history…..
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#434
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#434 1/30/2022 2:16am
1/30/2022 2:16am
The bike has a completely different frame than before. It‘s a new frame philosophy without the frame backbone extending to the shock. I don‘t think they can use a lot of information from the old bike.
Coop looks so static in the race. Sure, he can put down a fast lap, but in the race he and the bike don‘t seem to like each other. He can‘t make quick moves like the 3, the 21 or the 51 today.
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DrinkMoreWater 1/30/2022 2:34am
1/30/2022 2:34am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2022 2:36am
Cooper looks off but he never was the fastest since his arrival in 450's.

Anderson is bringing his 2018 form
Tomac is back to Tomac (I think it's here to stay this year)
Sexton young super talent.

The rest are where they should be.

Mookie looks better this year tbh.

Overall the rides that people are putting in this year are exactly where they should be.
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Crush
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Crush 1/30/2022 2:42am
1/30/2022 2:42am
Tumic wrote:
I just feel that when the other riders run at their peak, webb is not faster than this. We have had a couple of seasons wondering...
I just feel that when the other riders run at their peak, webb is not faster than this.

We have had a couple of seasons wondering why Anderson, Tomac etc under performed. And now when they are back, Webb don’t have the pace to run with them.
Yeah maybe, but I don’t think he necessarily set the world on fire the last three years to start each Chip. I’m sure he’ll get it together.
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Thisusernameisavailable 1/30/2022 4:40am
1/30/2022 4:40am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
ImPoSsIble It's JuST a RevISed ModEL

Edit:

Reference

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/2022-SX,1397375?page=1
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
You still believe they 'parked' the old bike, shredded the note book and everything they learned and started afresh. Right.. What actually happens is they put...
You still believe they 'parked' the old bike, shredded the note book and everything they learned and started afresh. Right..

What actually happens is they put the old bike on the bench, made some revisions to it, 0.5mm here, half a degree there, 0.5mm revision there, called it "all new" and now in your eyes its an 'all new' orange pig?!

The bike has two 2nd place finishes under two different riders- it aint the bike.
Broseph wrote:
No. Nobody but you has said anything about parking the old bike and shredding the notebook. They made changes to a whole bunch of parts. Sometimes...
No.

Nobody but you has said anything about parking the old bike and shredding the notebook.

They made changes to a whole bunch of parts. Sometimes changes take a while to sort. That’s all anybody has said.

Noticed you don’t have a profile pic. Can I suggest one?

And those changes were sorted by A1 when it scored a 2nd. Now three weeks later and "let's blame the new bike" doesn't wash.

There was nothing wrong with the bike at A1, there was nothing wrong with the bike at Oakland, there was nothing wrong with the bike last night. Webb isn't performing- he was beaten last night by two of the 'new' bikes and one of the 'old' bikes.

If ALL of the new bikes were consistently lagging behind, id agree with you, but that simply isn't happening.
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Cayden Thompson 1/30/2022 5:23am
1/30/2022 5:23am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2022 5:25am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
You still believe they 'parked' the old bike, shredded the note book and everything they learned and started afresh. Right.. What actually happens is they put...
You still believe they 'parked' the old bike, shredded the note book and everything they learned and started afresh. Right..

What actually happens is they put the old bike on the bench, made some revisions to it, 0.5mm here, half a degree there, 0.5mm revision there, called it "all new" and now in your eyes its an 'all new' orange pig?!

The bike has two 2nd place finishes under two different riders- it aint the bike.
Broseph wrote:
No. Nobody but you has said anything about parking the old bike and shredding the notebook. They made changes to a whole bunch of parts. Sometimes...
No.

Nobody but you has said anything about parking the old bike and shredding the notebook.

They made changes to a whole bunch of parts. Sometimes changes take a while to sort. That’s all anybody has said.

Noticed you don’t have a profile pic. Can I suggest one?

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
And those changes were sorted by A1 when it scored a 2nd. Now three weeks later and "let's blame the new bike" doesn't wash. There was...
And those changes were sorted by A1 when it scored a 2nd. Now three weeks later and "let's blame the new bike" doesn't wash.

There was nothing wrong with the bike at A1, there was nothing wrong with the bike at Oakland, there was nothing wrong with the bike last night. Webb isn't performing- he was beaten last night by two of the 'new' bikes and one of the 'old' bikes.

If ALL of the new bikes were consistently lagging behind, id agree with you, but that simply isn't happening.
That's a valid point. Something must be wrong with Webb. Whether it's mentally or physically.
As for Marv, he's just slow now.
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Timo
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Timo 1/30/2022 5:27am
1/30/2022 5:27am
Bikes don't always get better, Eli never looked as good outdoors after the new gen KX came out. KTM isolated the upper shock mount and the bike probably lost some feeling. Won't be as good in the corners, but I bet it'll look good back east on soft dirt. I still believe too much is put on the bikes nowadays. You put the best rider on any bike, they'll make it look good, I mean look at Eli winning a west coast round. Justin Barcia said that bike sucked in hardpack, definitely wasn't the rider. I mean since he's gone to gas gas the wins just rolled in, definitely the Yamaukida was too blame for his lack of wins. Aluminum frames are just way too stiff, just ask Chase...
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Cayden Thompson 1/30/2022 5:28am
1/30/2022 5:28am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2022 5:28am
USA wrote:
Physically, coop looks off. They showed him and Roger talking at the truck before the mains and coop had bags under his eyes. I can't say...
Physically, coop looks off. They showed him and Roger talking at the truck before the mains and coop had bags under his eyes. I can't say I have ever seen him look 'tired' like that for a race. Then in the main it was like 2018 again, totally not the same guy.

Could be a couple things, new bike, new training program, lingering illness, idk, this is not the coop we have seen since 2019 except for A1
I noticed, he did look good in that clip they showed on TV. Looked stressed and sickly.
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sandman768
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sandman768 1/30/2022 6:20am
1/30/2022 6:20am
Husky running the old chassis or new?
Bearuno
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Bearuno 1/30/2022 6:24am
1/30/2022 6:24am
New White KTM.

Gas Gas still on current bike.
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 1/30/2022 6:27am
1/30/2022 6:27am
sandman768 wrote:
Husky running the old chassis or new?
They're on the new bike. Gas Gas on the old/current.
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nskerb
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nskerb 1/30/2022 6:33am
1/30/2022 6:33am
Any time I see a KTM thread I instantly scroll through to see what kind of smoking hot terrible take “thisusernameisavalible” has to say.
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smoothies862 1/30/2022 7:06am
1/30/2022 7:06am
It will be one of those hes dealing with an illness etc. few weeks he’ll look like old webb.
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Augustine
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Augustine 1/30/2022 7:48am
1/30/2022 7:48am
The bike is the same as it’s ever been.

The problem is Webb is not getting starts.

Webb gets starts, or is very close to the front, and uses his incredible race craft to stay there. He’s never, never been a Tomac-style guy who will throw incredible lap times. It’s always been starts + race craft, and now his starts have disappeared.
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Broseph
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Broseph 1/30/2022 7:48am
1/30/2022 7:48am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
And those changes were sorted by A1 when it scored a 2nd. Now three weeks later and "let's blame the new bike" doesn't wash. There was...
And those changes were sorted by A1 when it scored a 2nd. Now three weeks later and "let's blame the new bike" doesn't wash.

There was nothing wrong with the bike at A1, there was nothing wrong with the bike at Oakland, there was nothing wrong with the bike last night. Webb isn't performing- he was beaten last night by two of the 'new' bikes and one of the 'old' bikes.

If ALL of the new bikes were consistently lagging behind, id agree with you, but that simply isn't happening.
By that logic, the YZ450 was completely sorted in 2019 at A1 when Barcia got 1st. But we all know that’s not true.
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sgrimmxdad 1/30/2022 8:01am
1/30/2022 8:01am
It looks like Cooper can't turn this new bike as good, the old bike seemed to fit his point and shoot style more. He always seemed to be able to cut down further inside than anyone the last few years, his crash last night highlighted thats not the case so much anymore.

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