STARK FUTURE VARG - An Electric Bike that is Faster and Lighter than a 450?

blaze 57
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Inchelium, WA US
12/15/2021 8:59pm Edited Date/Time 12/15/2021 9:00pm
Funny the guys saying 450s are too much power are now cheering an 80hp bike
And the 80 hp is not even the scary part. Electric motor put out a crazy amount of low end torque and normally more than the hp. I wonder how much torque this thing puts out. I bet its insane.
SilverSpurs
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12/15/2021 9:35pm Edited Date/Time 12/16/2021 2:49am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The motor itself is a ‘stressed member’, but the battery pack itself doesn’t sound like it is. It’d be no different than changing a fuel tank...
The motor itself is a ‘stressed member’, but the battery pack itself doesn’t sound like it is. It’d be no different than changing a fuel tank, which has always been allowed as long as it isn’t smaller than the production tank.

Either way, there would be rules written expressly for this type of machine if they attempted to homolagate it.
The point is the $5 worth of fuel (electrons) should be able to be added rapidly to the existing storage vessel, not require the purchase of an $8000 substitute battery and major apparatus to recharge it.
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Derpin' DJ
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12/15/2021 11:14pm
https://youtu.be/Eu9yf0baz74

Holy crap it looks so good!
Got damn that looks fun

It sounded like the power flattened out on the high speed straights - I'm wondering if its power limited in those tests. Assuming its running a similar torque at the rear to the Alta, with roughly twice the power it should be able to maintain that torque twice as long.
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The Shop

-MAVERICK-
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12/16/2021 12:38am
Josh Hill talking about the bike.

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PJRAUS
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12/16/2021 4:12am
He clearly loves the bike! Im frothing! I cant wait to get mine...im gonna be a busy boy this winter getting my tracks laid out....silence is golden! But the more I see...the more I'm starting to think that Im really gonna love this bike for how it performs...
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1
yota
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12/16/2021 5:02am
yota wrote:
let's say they go big time and get thousands of deposits. how do you build a factory, staff it with skilled workers, get mass production machining...
let's say they go big time and get thousands of deposits. how do you build a factory, staff it with skilled workers, get mass production machining equipment and produce that kind of volume on time to not piss everyone off? assume they have a deal set up with a Spanish factory already producing something like a motorcycle ?

I remember the hoopla when what's his name in England started supposedly making new Norton's. even the government bought into that. hoping this goes better.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Infrastructure is already in place for the manufacturing.
where is it located? exactly?
tek14
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Vantaa FI
12/16/2021 5:06am
yota wrote:
let's say they go big time and get thousands of deposits. how do you build a factory, staff it with skilled workers, get mass production machining...
let's say they go big time and get thousands of deposits. how do you build a factory, staff it with skilled workers, get mass production machining equipment and produce that kind of volume on time to not piss everyone off? assume they have a deal set up with a Spanish factory already producing something like a motorcycle ?

I remember the hoopla when what's his name in England started supposedly making new Norton's. even the government bought into that. hoping this goes better.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Infrastructure is already in place for the manufacturing.
yota wrote:
where is it located? exactly?
They said Spain Barcelona-Girona is area for many car/motorcycle and raceteam factories. I would guess its one of those facilities that will be used.
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stillwelding
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12/16/2021 6:31am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2021 6:43am
I drank the Koo-lAid!


22
WDSRCR
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12/16/2021 6:55am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Infrastructure is already in place for the manufacturing.
yota wrote:
where is it located? exactly?
tek14 wrote:
They said Spain Barcelona-Girona is area for many car/motorcycle and raceteam factories. I would guess its one of those facilities that will be used.
Might not be out of the question to assume the old Girona GasGas facility.
2
stillwelding
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12/16/2021 7:26am
yota wrote:
where is it located? exactly?
tek14 wrote:
They said Spain Barcelona-Girona is area for many car/motorcycle and raceteam factories. I would guess its one of those facilities that will be used.
WDSRCR wrote:
Might not be out of the question to assume the old Girona GasGas facility.
Makes sense, that's where Torrot electric motorcycles are made,


5
keinz
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12/16/2021 7:41am
"This is going to destroy the motocross industry" Yeah, we heard that ~5 years ago when Alta announced their electric bikes. Back then, people were reacting...
"This is going to destroy the motocross industry"

Yeah, we heard that ~5 years ago when Alta announced their electric bikes. Back then, people were reacting like everyone was going to be forced to ride electric bikes. But here we are, 5 years later, you still have your gate full of gas bikes, and a plethora of gas bike options to choose from. Motocross is alive and well, perhaps the best it has been in recent history.

How can anyone complain about a new challenger entering a ring that has been dominated by the same 4 or 5 companies for many years? Competition in the marketplace is a good thing for all of us.
RCMXracing wrote:
Agree. Would like one of our Vital member financial geniuses to do a deep dive into this company. Alta ran out of juice… would hate to...
Agree.

Would like one of our Vital member financial geniuses to do a deep dive into this company. Alta ran out of juice… would hate to see a repeat.
byke wrote:
I'm no financial genius, but I have a keyboard and an internet connection, which is pretty much the same as a doctorate, so...my opinion is that...
I'm no financial genius, but I have a keyboard and an internet connection, which is pretty much the same as a doctorate, so...my opinion is that the bike wasn't the problem with Alta, it was certainly good enough. The problem was overpaid hipsters thinking they could manufacture an electric dirt bike(i.e. a niche within a niche) in the bay area, one of the most expensive places to operate in the entire country. So, I don't see how some turtleneck wearing Swedes with gel in their hair are going to be doing anything different, even with a hundred horsepower.

For an electric dirt bike to be a sustainable product right now, it needs to come from one of the big five, since the profits from their other products can ensure the sustainability of an electric dirt bike, because let's face it...an electric dirt bike as a main product isn't blowing up the ol' bank account. It would take a very specific business model without corporate expectations by passionate people willing to trade sweat and fun for income, and those aren't the people funding these operations.
You def not a financial genius, and your internet connection sucks.

CEO of STARK FUTURE
Anton Wass


12
LoudLove
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12/16/2021 8:02am
skypig wrote:
They probably don’t have to reduce the 80HP, rather just tune the delivery. Potentially it could be programmed to only produce full power when several parameters...
They probably don’t have to reduce the 80HP, rather just tune the delivery. Potentially it could be programmed to only produce full power when several parameters are in place. EG: not leaned over more than X degrees, less than X percentage wheels spin, current speed in excess of X, throttle is against the stop, etc. Or programmed to only deliver full power on the final 2/3rds of the start straight, or “main” straight.

Techniques and options we haven’t thought of yet.

A lot of factors for sure - we’ll wait and see.
This, coupled with the previously-mentioned GPS mapping will allow infinite programming options. Imagine a bike delivering outrageous HP and torque with a more-forgiving nature than today’s bikes.

Yes, ICE bikes with gearboxes have their own intrinsic value. However, if e-bikes were the norm, it’s difficult to imagine a scenario where today’s bikes would find a place in the market. A machine that’s more difficult to ride, requires frequent maintenance, and generates significant dBs would be a tough sell.
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1
12/16/2021 8:13am
racerxx276 wrote:
This sort of reminds me of the marketing of the Cannondale bike.

It was the next big thing... until it wasn't.
Exactly what I thought, watching the video. Lots of claims to solve all problems like Cannondale. The bike looks cool and 2 great riders doing the testing.
1
stillwelding
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12/16/2021 9:59am
racerxx276 wrote:
This sort of reminds me of the marketing of the Cannondale bike.

It was the next big thing... until it wasn't.
Exactly what I thought, watching the video. Lots of claims to solve all problems like Cannondale. The bike looks cool and 2 great riders doing the...
Exactly what I thought, watching the video. Lots of claims to solve all problems like Cannondale. The bike looks cool and 2 great riders doing the testing.
A good friend of mine, who worked on the Buell Dirtbike program, is also a skeptic of all the hype, he says wait until it hits the marketplace. But I put my Non-refundable $100.00 on the line.
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Larry450
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12/16/2021 10:48am
This is really cool in many ways. Direct to consumer is cool. Suspension set for your weight by technical touch from the factory is cool. Spare parts from the factory with express shipping is cool.

Am I the only dummy here that does not what is "slippery-fingers’ cell holders"? I tried googling it and nothing. And what does the a pressure relief system do? What pressure does it relief? Why is there pressure?

Alta battery is 5.8 kWH and this thing has 6kWH how can this thing be so much more efficient?

I am not a hater just interested in tech
byke
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12/16/2021 10:56am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2021 11:29am
RCMXracing wrote:
Agree. Would like one of our Vital member financial geniuses to do a deep dive into this company. Alta ran out of juice… would hate to...
Agree.

Would like one of our Vital member financial geniuses to do a deep dive into this company. Alta ran out of juice… would hate to see a repeat.
byke wrote:
I'm no financial genius, but I have a keyboard and an internet connection, which is pretty much the same as a doctorate, so...my opinion is that...
I'm no financial genius, but I have a keyboard and an internet connection, which is pretty much the same as a doctorate, so...my opinion is that the bike wasn't the problem with Alta, it was certainly good enough. The problem was overpaid hipsters thinking they could manufacture an electric dirt bike(i.e. a niche within a niche) in the bay area, one of the most expensive places to operate in the entire country. So, I don't see how some turtleneck wearing Swedes with gel in their hair are going to be doing anything different, even with a hundred horsepower.

For an electric dirt bike to be a sustainable product right now, it needs to come from one of the big five, since the profits from their other products can ensure the sustainability of an electric dirt bike, because let's face it...an electric dirt bike as a main product isn't blowing up the ol' bank account. It would take a very specific business model without corporate expectations by passionate people willing to trade sweat and fun for income, and those aren't the people funding these operations.
keinz wrote:
You def not a financial genius, and your internet connection sucks. CEO of STARK FUTURE Anton Wass [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/12/16/523194/s1200_Screenshot_2021_12_16_at_17.35.57.jpg[/img]
You def not a financial genius, and your internet connection sucks.

CEO of STARK FUTURE
Anton Wass


Read the credentials of everyone involved in the seven rounds of investments in Alta:

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/brd-motorcycles/company_financi…

Have you heard of Fox Racing? Because they have some pretty solid credentials.

The problem isn't that these people have poor credentials, the problem is the crushing debt created by pipedream startup costs and the fact that these investors want to see returns on their investment. That model doesn't work for something like an electric dirt bike as a main product, because it's a niche within a niche. The only way this works is if the investors are satisfied with not making much money, or if the manufacturer makes a bunch of money from other products to help sustain a product that's just not a big money maker. Thinking that electric dirt bikes are going to be some huge corporate cash cow is delusions of grandeur.

The Genova approach is totally fine, you take the money from something profitable to fund something that's not very profitable, and you do it because you love it.
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hard2kill
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Flag Pond, TN US
12/16/2021 11:11am
Just put my order in. I purchased a surron 2 years ago just to play around on and have since heavily modded it. It is my go to bike in most situations even despite its many shortcomings to my ice bike.Maitnace has almost been non existent and i have hammered on it pretty hard. I have a 4kwh chi battery for it as well as the stock 2kwh battery.

Took it to the Mountaineer GNCC this year just to see if I could make it the distance in the AM race as this course is a bit tighter and slower than most GNCC courses. I lead the first lap in my class and was able to just finish the 2 hour race with about 15% left on my second battery coming in 4th.

Battery capacity on the stark is about the same as what i have now with my sur ron, obviously power delivery is much different but if somebody like chi can manufacture an aftermarket battery for it the range could get interesting.

I think 8 to 10 kwh is what will be needed to go enduro racing or a 3 hour gncc without a battery swap.
9
JMX82
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12/16/2021 11:15am
I think with a lot simpler structure producing electric bike will have bigger margin of profit than conventional combustion engine powered bike. The challenge is to get R&D costs and production line setup costs covered because those costs are accumulating long before they are capable to deliver bike's to customers. But to me it seems that the Stark has a lot of money behind them so they will have a better chance to succeed than Alta
3
Lastander
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12/16/2021 1:33pm
To be honest, Stark broke the Internet for me.

1/3 of the pictures, posts, memes and videos across Facebook instagram and youtube is about this bike and company
9
APLMAN99
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Fantasy
12/16/2021 2:33pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
The motor itself is a ‘stressed member’, but the battery pack itself doesn’t sound like it is. It’d be no different than changing a fuel tank...
The motor itself is a ‘stressed member’, but the battery pack itself doesn’t sound like it is. It’d be no different than changing a fuel tank, which has always been allowed as long as it isn’t smaller than the production tank.

Either way, there would be rules written expressly for this type of machine if they attempted to homolagate it.
The point is the $5 worth of fuel (electrons) should be able to be added rapidly to the existing storage vessel, not require the purchase of...
The point is the $5 worth of fuel (electrons) should be able to be added rapidly to the existing storage vessel, not require the purchase of an $8000 substitute battery and major apparatus to recharge it.
Looks like you edited your original post saying that the rule 'would' mean no changing of a battery to 'should'.

Of course that opinion of yours is worth every cent you were paid for it.........!

Personally I am hoping that the tech advances as quickly as possible, giving the ability to reduce the price enough so that bikes can be sold with up to 3 battery packs at a time for closer to a full day of riding. Probably just in time for my future grandkids to start riding, I would guess.
Yeti831
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UT US
12/16/2021 3:26pm Edited Date/Time 12/16/2021 3:27pm
The people who are cheering the quiet aspect of this for “saving the ride” may want to go chat with their local mountain bikers about how well it’s saved their trails.

Tip: it hasn’t. The Karens will just find some other aspect to attack (land erosion, dust, etc).

The people who are trying to kill this sport will keep trying to kill this sport. You keep giving them inches that add to miles.

You want one? Awesome, go for it. But it won’t save a damn thing.

P.s. I think Johnny already mentioned this but is the same crowd that seems to harp on 450s constantly for being too powerful seriously cheering a bike with 20 more hp (that isn’t rpm dependent mind you)? Lmao
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20
Silas444
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12/16/2021 3:30pm
byke wrote:
Read the credentials of everyone involved in the seven rounds of investments in Alta: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/brd-motorcycles/company_financials Have you heard of Fox Racing? Because they have some pretty...
Read the credentials of everyone involved in the seven rounds of investments in Alta:

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/brd-motorcycles/company_financi…

Have you heard of Fox Racing? Because they have some pretty solid credentials.

The problem isn't that these people have poor credentials, the problem is the crushing debt created by pipedream startup costs and the fact that these investors want to see returns on their investment. That model doesn't work for something like an electric dirt bike as a main product, because it's a niche within a niche. The only way this works is if the investors are satisfied with not making much money, or if the manufacturer makes a bunch of money from other products to help sustain a product that's just not a big money maker. Thinking that electric dirt bikes are going to be some huge corporate cash cow is delusions of grandeur.

The Genova approach is totally fine, you take the money from something profitable to fund something that's not very profitable, and you do it because you love it.
If nothing else, I admire the remarkably consistent negativity of your commentary, although it does make me wonder, with that "glass half empty" attitude you've got, how you could possibly perceive the risk/reward factor of motocross racing as an equation worth embracing. I mean, what are your thoughts as the gate falls? Is it, "Hey, I probably won't live past the first corner, as I'll likely die from a handlebar impalement through the right ventricle from the guy next to me, but what the hell, I've lived too long already, so let's go meet The Reaper!!!""?

But anyhoo, I think the problem you might be having with the how/why of this company (Stark) is that you've got a Silicon Valley outlook, an outlook that the average Swede (or Spaniard) would likely find a bit peculiar. Unlike start-up companies in NorCal, most planet Earth people would be happy just to be part of a solidly-built, innovative business that makes a solidly-built, innovative product. They don't feel the need to become barely-pubescent billionaires because globally speaking (and I know this might seem shocking to a Californian like yourself) billionaires are not widely envied. Yes, I'll admit, people might want their money, but very few people would actually want to BE Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey, because they seem like strange, creepy people in dire need of round-the-clock therapy and better hair stylists.

Alta failed, not because it produced an inferior product or their bike received poor marketplace response (like Cannonade suffered from), but because it's production facilities were located in the WORST place imaginable (Silicon Valley), causing a "burn rate" that was completely unsustainable. Investors bailed, not because the bike sucked, but because they quickly realized it would be easier to produce a profitable bike in an active volcano than in the outskirts of San Fran.

Will the Stark Varg succeed? I believe it will, and that belief stems from my impression that the company's mission statement seems NOT to be centered around the MONEY or the STOCK PRICE, but around the BIKE. The little details (the footpegs, the chain adjusters, the stronger yet lighter plastic, the more efficient motor) speak to this focus quite eloquently (for those who care to notice, E.G. someone like myself, and early-adapter who is buying a grey one).
30
stillwelding
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12/16/2021 3:30pm
Yeti831 wrote:
The people who are cheering the quiet aspect of this for “saving the ride” may want to go chat with their local mountain bikers about how...
The people who are cheering the quiet aspect of this for “saving the ride” may want to go chat with their local mountain bikers about how well it’s saved their trails.

Tip: it hasn’t. The Karens will just find some other aspect to attack (land erosion, dust, etc).

The people who are trying to kill this sport will keep trying to kill this sport. You keep giving them inches that add to miles.

You want one? Awesome, go for it. But it won’t save a damn thing.

P.s. I think Johnny already mentioned this but is the same crowd that seems to harp on 450s constantly for being too powerful seriously cheering a bike with 20 more hp (that isn’t rpm dependent mind you)? Lmao
100%. Dislike of motorcycles is not a noise issue, for most that don't like dirt bikes. They just don't like bikes and use whatever weapon is handy. Like the fact that people who ride, generally are not politically involved in their states riding issues.
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1
early
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University Heights, OH US
12/16/2021 3:36pm
Yeti831 wrote:
The people who are cheering the quiet aspect of this for “saving the ride” may want to go chat with their local mountain bikers about how...
The people who are cheering the quiet aspect of this for “saving the ride” may want to go chat with their local mountain bikers about how well it’s saved their trails.

Tip: it hasn’t. The Karens will just find some other aspect to attack (land erosion, dust, etc).

The people who are trying to kill this sport will keep trying to kill this sport. You keep giving them inches that add to miles.

You want one? Awesome, go for it. But it won’t save a damn thing.

P.s. I think Johnny already mentioned this but is the same crowd that seems to harp on 450s constantly for being too powerful seriously cheering a bike with 20 more hp (that isn’t rpm dependent mind you)? Lmao
I live in a fairly densely populated area in the middle of the country. Over the last 10 year the amount of legal public mountain biking trails within a 2 hour drive have almost doubled. I can't say that about ohv areas.
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Pop Shmoke
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Boston, MA US
12/16/2021 4:07pm
Yea idk what theyre talking sbout, 100% of the tracks around me that closed were due to noise. Even southwick even almost closed due to noise.
1
Silas444
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12/16/2021 4:15pm
100%. Dislike of motorcycles is not a noise issue, for most that don't like dirt bikes. They just don't like bikes and use whatever weapon is...
100%. Dislike of motorcycles is not a noise issue, for most that don't like dirt bikes. They just don't like bikes and use whatever weapon is handy. Like the fact that people who ride, generally are not politically involved in their states riding issues.
Horseshit. Absolute horseshit.

Ask anyone who owns a track. Noise is HUGE, noise is CENTRAL, noise is ELEMENTAL, to any and all focus and intent regarding the prevention of, or curtailment of, motocross tracks. Erosion is a fall-back complaint, I'll grant you that, but it's like comparing a raccoon to a lion. The former might piss you off and ruin your day, yes, true, but the latter will EAT you.

Without noise, no one even knows where we are, and of those who do, few would care, as we're on private land and our motors are no longer creating what they currently view as a "public nuisance."

Get. A. Clue.
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6
xr70
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La crescenta, CA US
12/16/2021 4:16pm
What is all this fuss about it ? I just want to have fun and I love my e Mtb so I order one . Deal done.
6
Stewyeww
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AU
12/16/2021 4:45pm
Yeti831 wrote:
The people who are cheering the quiet aspect of this for “saving the ride” may want to go chat with their local mountain bikers about how...
The people who are cheering the quiet aspect of this for “saving the ride” may want to go chat with their local mountain bikers about how well it’s saved their trails.

Tip: it hasn’t. The Karens will just find some other aspect to attack (land erosion, dust, etc).

The people who are trying to kill this sport will keep trying to kill this sport. You keep giving them inches that add to miles.

You want one? Awesome, go for it. But it won’t save a damn thing.

P.s. I think Johnny already mentioned this but is the same crowd that seems to harp on 450s constantly for being too powerful seriously cheering a bike with 20 more hp (that isn’t rpm dependent mind you)? Lmao
Some places have embraced MTB in there communities, hell for a lot of small communities in Canada and through out the US MTB tourism can be a towns main source of revenue. Im am going to say your statement is 80% wrong, the only part i agree with is some people (you included) will always find something to whinge about.
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1
CG118
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Kennesaw, GA US
12/16/2021 4:58pm
Yeti831 wrote:
The people who are cheering the quiet aspect of this for “saving the ride” may want to go chat with their local mountain bikers about how...
The people who are cheering the quiet aspect of this for “saving the ride” may want to go chat with their local mountain bikers about how well it’s saved their trails.

Tip: it hasn’t. The Karens will just find some other aspect to attack (land erosion, dust, etc).

The people who are trying to kill this sport will keep trying to kill this sport. You keep giving them inches that add to miles.

You want one? Awesome, go for it. But it won’t save a damn thing.

P.s. I think Johnny already mentioned this but is the same crowd that seems to harp on 450s constantly for being too powerful seriously cheering a bike with 20 more hp (that isn’t rpm dependent mind you)? Lmao
Funny you mention Karen. You kind of act like Karen.
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