Vets and their 250fs.

I just recently saw your videos on YouTube about your 350. I'm surprised you like the 250 better. Did you have a Yamaha 250F?

I’m torn because I have more fun on a 250f but my lap times are slower on a 2:00ish lap by about 3 seconds compared to a 450. Damn this competitiveness in me…

Over the past 8 years, I have owned a 450. Prior to that I had 2 different 250f's and before that I had 450's and before that 250f's. Now mind you, im going all the way back to 2002 when I started racing. Ive always been on the heavier side. In my younger years I was much lighter, but now im around 270. Contrary to the stigma on this forum that "a person of my weight should be riding only a 450", its total bs. Its all about setup and how you ride.

In 2019 I had bought a new kx450 to replace my 13 kx450 that I loved. Now I always have had the 2 stroke itch from never owning one, so i bought a buddies 2015 ktm250sx. That riding season I would try to ride both bikes back to back. It took me a while to get use to it compared to riding a 450 for so long. The bike was way more demanding than my 450, but it was a fun challenge. Certain tracks I liked the 250 and other were so bad that I would spin a few laps and just hop on my 450 lol. The 250 smoker tired me out just as much if not more than the 450 at times... which got me thinking about getting another 250f or 350 to replace the smoker. I just feel like im more of a 4 stroke guy because thats what ive mainly rode since i got into riding/racing. Now for all the same reasons other people have stated in the previous posts, I figured I would go the 250f route and picked up a 21 yz250f this past summer. Now i havent ridden or owned a 250f for almost 10 years. After the first few rides on the 250f, it was a lot like being on my 250 smoker. Between the 2 bikes, you are doing a lot more shifting, planning corners and pushing harder than you would on the 450. In a sense the 250f is more work than the 450, but doesnt have the torque, so now you start having to push it harder which makes you tired quicker. The acceleration torque of the 450 tires me out more than on the 250f. In the corners is where i can feel the difference in weight and inertia of the 2 bikes. Its not earth shattering, but you will notice it. Having the 250&250f has helped greatly increase my 450 corner speed and aggressiveness.
Each bike has its pluses and minuses for me at my weight and skill. If i go to an open practice where the dirt is tilled, i will ride the 450 first, until the track get some lines made because the 250f will struggle for me.

I thoroughly enjoy riding both bikes back to back as it helps progress my skillset and it opens my eye's to how complacent you get just riding my 450 24/7

Sorry for the rambling post

the 350 is the perfect size motor. It really is. There just aren't enough of them available so get one while you can.

I ride a 2020 YZ450F, 2019 KX450f, YZ250, CRF270, and now the KTM 350 (long story....). The 350 is exactly what it should be. It has the maneuverability of the 250F with a shit ton of extra/ controllable pulling power. Easy to ride and the best of both worlds. I love my 450's and like the extra power. if you can ride a 450 correctly and controlled....there is nothing like it. 250F is great for the stadium style tracks. 350....best all around. They do take a bit to get used to. Fine tuning the gearing is huge in regards to getting the power where you want it. Good stuff by KTM. They found a niche and jumped on it. I'm stoked that i finally got one.....although i'm still keeping my 450's.

When I stepped off the 450's a few years back and went on to this big 2 stroke kick , I always had this thought in the back of mine......try the 250F. It's one regret that I really wish I would have tried. I don't have much time left in this sport before I walk away , and swapping out everything to a new 250F at what the market is like , just isn't feasible. Fwiw.....the 250'F's are great vet bikes , from the bit of experience I have had with them. Really kick myself for not putting some time into them.

I sold my KX450F and bought a 21 YZ250F in March of this year. I’m now riding 20 minute motos again. My 450 was good but it wore me out fast. I definitely had to fight that bike to get it to cooperate. The 250F just goes where it’s pointed and stays there. Great handling bike. On paper I think they weigh about the same, but riding you’d never know that. And it’s kind of nice to not have the power to rely on to make up for poor technique. It forces me to ride better.

My buddy has a Husky FC350. Man is it good. But at the same time I find it still has some of those 450 traits that make me think it wouldn’t be a better bike for me. I think if I could have both, that would be the best solution. But since I can only have one, the 250F makes the most sense for me.

I haven’t raced since I was a teenager on my CR125. I keep saying I’m gonna enter a +30 race sometime, but it hasn’t happened yet. I just enjoy the practice days.

I did a 270 kit on my 2019 crf250 and if I hadn’t been riding my kx450 all summer I would be absolutely geeking out about the power. I can push the 250 around the track easier than the Kawi, I will say it’s easier to dial in a new track on the 450…but the 270 is probably the perfect vet bike, I had an fc350 and could never gel with it like others have said…

Went from a 450 to a 250 2T then quit riding for about a year. Picked up a 21 KX250 without ever riding a newer 250f, very happy with my decision. Honestly it got me back into riding/racing more than I have in a long time. At first I felt that maybe I could use some more power, until I rode my buddies 21 yz450 and was scared the whole time haha. That made me feel a lot better about the 250f. You definitely have to ride it harder to go fast but what I like is that late in the moto/day when you’re tired a small mistake that could easily lead to a bigger crash isn’t as likely on the 250 v 450.

Where does the 300 2 smoker come into this conversation??? I have a 21 YZ450f and a 21 Beta 300RX. The Beta is so much fun to ride but maybe not as good as the YZ overall in moto. But shredding berms on the 3hundee smoker is a hoot for me! Which at my age that's all that matters is having a good time and coming home in once piece.

First off, no 350 experience, but ...

... I have been a 450F guy since they hit the scene in ~ 2002. I came off a 2001 CR250R 2-stroke and was AMAZED how much faster I was on the 4-stroke right away. The calmer powerband and stability that the 4-stroke motor created in the chassis was very welcome in the Arizona open desert riding I was mostly doing at the time. I've loved 450s all along, agree they are tiring – especially on tight tracks/trails, but I still have 3 (2007 CRF450R, 2008 CRF450R, and a 2020 YZ450F), primarily because I love torque, short shifting, and low maintenance (I run them 100+ hours on top-ends). Great overall packages, soooo versatile, but weight is an issue, there’s no 2 ways about it.

On a whim, I purchased a 2016 YZ250F to see how far 250Fs had come since I had last ridden one in 2007 (purchased from VitalMX member SamCampbell – super dude). I was BLOWN AWAY. IT IS THE MOST FUN BIKE I HAVE EVER RIDDEN, but I want a tad more power ... so, guided by some excellent VitalMX advice from Walent215, Stone881, I am going big-bore. The total kit is a Cylinder Works 270 big-bore, DASA ported head, Ti valves + heavy-duty springs/keepers, Hot Cams Stage 1 cams (and Stage 2s to try as well), full Yosh Ti exhaust, TwinAir PowerFlow intake, Lightspeed velocity stack, swiss-cheesed airbox cover, Vortex ignition, and a Rekluse CORE EXP 3.0 autoclutch. It just needs assembly soon(ish). Will create a ride report once she's built up and broken in – some here may benefit.

I cannot overstate how much BETTER the handling is on my 250F in tight situations (e.g. the mountain trails I ride in Colorado now). Mind blowing better. Like “Why the heck would I ride anything else if a 250F is this much more fun?! I don’t care if I have to rebuild every 10 hours – it’ll be worth it!” I've described it as "mountain bike fun" to folks who ask. On "typical" MX tracks, that flickable feeling is less prevalent for me on the 250F - but it's still there and sweet. Cornering is better in general, but on 450s - to be able to squirt out of a corner at any time without setting it up perfectly and having more “jump making” margin is quite nice, too. Sooo … my hope is the modded 270F will be the perfect happy medium for me, retaining the all-important handling characteristics that make he 250F so dang fun. The mass of a 450F is also an advantage when blasting through certain terrain like sandy whoops, so the weight is not always a penalty. You need to keep that in mind.

450F vs. 250F ... go 250F, it's just more fun in more situations. I am a 40-something Vet B guy and safe fun = what it's all about for me. I can push a 250F harder which allows me to progress more quickly as a rider AND it's just more forgiving of mistakes (which I make many of). But, I still hang onto the 450Fs. GREAT bikes, too!

P.S. Putting a Rekluse clutch in a bike is truly magic. If you go with their Radius CX model, you can run it as a manual or autoclutch (just turn in the pressure-plate standoff ring so there's no pressure on it to go manual). The snappiness of the Rekluse manual clutch = awesome (gives the 250F more power to the ground) and the autoclutch dulls the snappiness of the 450F ever so slightly to make things more manageable, less intimidating. I actually have Rekluse autoclutches in all of my bikes because they take the fatigue that comes from trying not to stall a bike out of the equation --- GREAT for 450Fs, but nice on 250Fs, too. Here's another plug for using an autoclutch - engine stalls are less likely:
https://www.facebook.com/vurbmoto/videos/418089103166926/

P.P.S. I live in Denver Colorado at ~ 5280 feet of elevation. For every 1000 feet of elevation, naturally aspirated engines lose ~ 3% in power. This puts me at a 15% power loss right off-the-bat. Therefore, what I currently think is "a lot of power" on a 450F is much less than what most of you are fighting. Same for my 250F that I am modding. For most of you, a stock 250F with a nice intake and exhaust is perfect. That just occurred to me so I thought I would share. Lastly, I noticed that elevation did not make my 450F lighter ... so that is STILL a problem. :-) Without the snappier power to use to make the 450F "get out of its own way," I've noticed the 450F handling drawbacks are amplified. Kinda interesting, actually.

Long write up. Sorry about that.

Went from a well sorted yz250 2stk, to a 19 450 ktm, i dont race and am having better and more fun day at the tracks, just easier to ride over all. 58yrs old and no plans to go pro guess its just easier to go slow on the 450 ha ha

This thread isn't making my decision any easier..

Been riding a 250 2stroke and doing well against 450's, if I don't get a start I can usually dive inside and get them in the first corner...only downside for me are big jumps (took 10years off riding and im still not totally comfortable sending it) where you have to wind out second and powershift to third on the face but I make up for it in other sections...guys on 450's just roll up to it and grab a handful

Wanting to try a 4stroke again and Im torn on a new honda 250f or a husky or gasgas 350...If I didnt have to spend a bunch of $ on a KYB conversion I would probably go with the 350 but the new hondas looking pretty good and some of the 350 reviews in here have me second guessing

Im 170lbs and am used to carrying momentum so I think the 250f would be ok....only thing I worry about is the same problem I have with my 250 2stroke...when I'm battling with a couple guys and I have to follow someone into a rut and they are on a 450 I end up running up on their rear tire since I'm trying to carry speed and then they just grab a handful and Im clutching it trying to get going again...it's been awhile since Ive ridden a 250f..I did a few laps on a 2012 RMZ250 back when it was new and the only one I owned was back in 2005..an 04 crf 250 with a 302 stroker in it that was pretty fast..

I’m on the fence here. Past three bikes have been a KTM 350, 150 then now a 450sxf.
The 350 was great! Power was perfect. Up two teeth in rear and FMF 4.1 system. 114 hours, not a single problem. Biggest flaw to the 350 was buying the 150 as a second bike. I spent a lot of time on the 150 practicing on skill and got to where It became my main bike.
Got the racing itch in March, sold the 150 to get a 450. Man, that took probably five hours to figure out. Couldn’t go off engine sound at first on jumps, would go long on everything. Didn’t like how unsettled it felt in corners, just an odd beast. Power everywhere. 15 hours or so later we get along pretty good, but can’t help but think I rode faster and smoother on my 350, and will likely being going back.

My last 2 bikes were a 2018 Ktm 350 and now am on a 2018 250 Sxf big bore. I will save you the details and just say this, the 350 will help you get over jumps like the 450, it has the torque if geared right. My 250 bb will not, but I make very few mistakes on it because it is so maneuverable and smooth, just have to use more outside lines.

Btw... I also owned many modern 250 smokers and I would say my current 250 bb is similar in many ways to the smokers, just more controllable and planted because its got such linear power that pulls forever.

I went from riding 450's the last 11 years back to a 250f. I've only ridden Hondas so I don't have prospective on other brands but what I will say when I got on my 2021 Honda CRF250R and rode it for the first time I had a massive smile on my face. It just made riding fun again. Riding a 450 became a job and was just too much work. With a 250 you just point and shoot a bike that is much easier to man handle. Yes, there are times I don't have the power the 450 had but it's a trade off you accept. I don't miss the 450 at all. If you are on the fence and considering this move, take a leap and do it. I did and wish I had sooner.

I would like to find an old YZ100 and just ride the ever living shit out of it. I’m 54 btw.

Ditching the 450 after it working me after a handful of hard laps.

I now have a 22 YZ125 on order.

Like others have said vet racing is 80% fitness. If you can keep the pace after 4 laps you are good on any bike

Depends on the vets skill, and endurance. The 250f is simply more fun to ride, your able to push into turns harder and challenge yourself. 450's are easy to ride a track on and clear the jumps, but they are harder to race. Personally, I think most should steer towards the fun factor first. Guess what? The more you ride/race, the better shape you get in and the harder you can push a motorcycle. If you're worried about starts, proper starting technique on the weekend will beat out a 450 vet racer everyday. For the dye hard 450 lovers, detune the bike and have fun.

I rode a 2020 YZ250FX with a 270 kit back to back with a KTM 350 XCF (16 model with lots of suspension upgrades). Certainly the 350 has more power. But it revs much slower. The thing about the KTM vs the YAM is the KTM feels long and tall.. and it doesn't want to turn.

The YAM just handles so much better... more stable and turns better. Frankly, YAM should make a 300 FX. They would sell the heck out of them.

I would have to say that KTMs will turn circles around Yamahas. Maybe you are referring to woods riding?

To me Yamaha's push through turns, whereas I can pretty much turn anywhere and as tight as I want on a KTM. I will say that I felt the opposite effect on my last Yz 250 smoker, it would constantly knife in turns.

I know it's been said for years but I still seems so weird that for the sake of basically a rod, a piston and cylinder and maybe some slight valve train tweaks none of the Jap folks, most likely Yamaha, haven't seen the dollars KTM pull from inbetweener bikes and just bitten the bullet and got it done.

With how much love there is for the YZ250f already, they'd take a huge bite out of KTMs sales, and seeing as they're the ones with the stones to keep Jap two strokes rolling out the factory, it's pretty crazy they haven't done that too.

Side note, 350 time for me, will see how this shakes out, may well joing the blu cru before long.