Is Factory Kawasaki the new Factory Yamaha?

aeffertz
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aeffertz
In this new interview Eli states he had the option to renew with Kawasaki but chose to switch teams for “performance” based issues. In the PulpMX ‘Renthal Reacts’ Podcast they explain how Kawasaki is very stuck in their ways and don’t listen to riders. Hindering results due to stubbornness is a bit familiar…

We all know egos have hindered team performance in the past, is it now Kawasaki’s management that is being stubborn? They’ve been frustrated with other teams decisions and hold a grudge against them when it comes to doing MXoN races. Is there a captain going down with the ship at the moment, similar to the Factory Yamaha team? AC’s contract is up next year, does he stay onboard if these rumblings are true about the team being difficult to work with and/or stubborn.

https://youtu.be/1KJJ1lLAqN4
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resetjet
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resetjet 10/2/2021 6:54am
10/2/2021 6:54am
He said he is stuck on a plateau. He feels he needed to change based on that.
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kb228
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kb228 10/2/2021 6:55am
10/2/2021 6:55am
Eli might be right but i get “grass is greener on the other side” vibes from the switch.
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dsmith
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dsmith 10/2/2021 7:04am
10/2/2021 7:04am
Adam and Jason will do good..I'll bet...adam was right up there until he bailed alot...
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AH387
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AH387 10/2/2021 8:11am
10/2/2021 8:11am
The weird thing is, we heard about these rumors so early (last season) that we hadn't realized how much Star was able to turn the 450 program around. So it really seemed odd back then. There was still that question mark around the 450 team and the bike itself. But as the year went on, Star's reputation built way up. So now it looks like a great move (on the surface.)
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murph783
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murph783 10/2/2021 8:16am
10/2/2021 8:16am
I mean you make a valid point
cheers_22
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cheers_22 10/2/2021 8:17am
10/2/2021 8:17am
aeffertz wrote:
In this new interview Eli states he had the option to renew with Kawasaki but chose to switch teams for “performance” based issues. In the PulpMX...
In this new interview Eli states he had the option to renew with Kawasaki but chose to switch teams for “performance” based issues. In the PulpMX ‘Renthal Reacts’ Podcast they explain how Kawasaki is very stuck in their ways and don’t listen to riders. Hindering results due to stubbornness is a bit familiar…

We all know egos have hindered team performance in the past, is it now Kawasaki’s management that is being stubborn? They’ve been frustrated with other teams decisions and hold a grudge against them when it comes to doing MXoN races. Is there a captain going down with the ship at the moment, similar to the Factory Yamaha team? AC’s contract is up next year, does he stay onboard if these rumblings are true about the team being difficult to work with and/or stubborn.

https://youtu.be/1KJJ1lLAqN4
Nothing really new. Reed pretty much confirmed this after the 2010 season.
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 10/2/2021 8:24am
10/2/2021 8:24am
dsmith wrote:
Adam and Jason will do good..I'll bet...adam was right up there until he bailed alot...
I agree with you, that’s not really what I’m talking about though.

It’s been said before in the RV and Weimer days and now seemingly with Tomac that there is some reluctance from management to change or explore certain aspects of the bike at Kawasaki. It’s very evident now that there was a clear issue with that at Factory Yamaha with Barcia, Reed, Webb and AP all being vocal about it and how Star has turned that bike into a champion winning platform in their first attempt.

I’m just curious if something similar could happen with Kawasaki since they seem to be going down the same path.
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PNWRider
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PNWRider 10/2/2021 3:09pm
10/2/2021 3:09pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2021 3:10pm
dsmith wrote:
Adam and Jason will do good..I'll bet...adam was right up there until he bailed alot...
aeffertz wrote:
I agree with you, that’s not really what I’m talking about though. It’s been said before in the RV and Weimer days and now seemingly with...
I agree with you, that’s not really what I’m talking about though.

It’s been said before in the RV and Weimer days and now seemingly with Tomac that there is some reluctance from management to change or explore certain aspects of the bike at Kawasaki. It’s very evident now that there was a clear issue with that at Factory Yamaha with Barcia, Reed, Webb and AP all being vocal about it and how Star has turned that bike into a champion winning platform in their first attempt.

I’m just curious if something similar could happen with Kawasaki since they seem to be going down the same path.
I recall it going even further back than that. There was in interview with someone from the 80’s where the riders were all told they’d ride the same engine settings. Individual mechanics then ported the cylinders themselves to give the riders what they wanted, unbeknownst to management and/or corporate.
DrinkMoreWater 10/2/2021 3:15pm
10/2/2021 3:15pm
He needs a change regardless how good the machine is, hopefully it's the mental boost he needs to contend again.

He proved again this year he's the fastest guy In the series but has massive amounts of inconsistency, tomac is so good he would be the fastest on any brand it's just up up him to make it happen.
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scott_nz 10/2/2021 3:34pm
10/2/2021 3:34pm
Interesting to see ando running showas , it always seemed weird that teams wound run different Suspension brands between riders
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CPR
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CPR 10/2/2021 4:04pm
10/2/2021 4:04pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2021 4:05pm
This can be an issue with all factory teams from time to time, one of few pitfalls of riding for a manufacturer.

It’s easy to see how Kawi would end up with that attitude after the amount of success they’ve had. Which is why it’s even more confounding that Yamaha was so stubborn way past their heyday.

Even KTM seems to have fallen into not being so flexible, after Webb’s frame change comments during the Outdoors.

If it’s one of the main reasons behind Tomac’s team change, then I’m sure Kawi will address it, or at least should be.
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#434
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#434 10/2/2021 4:17pm
10/2/2021 4:17pm
The oil cooler design they ran for years at the outdoor rounds tells me everything I need to know Tongue
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Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 10/2/2021 4:50pm
10/2/2021 4:50pm
They won a bunch of titles with RV and ET, so they must be doing something right.
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 10/2/2021 5:29pm
10/2/2021 5:29pm
Husky won outdoors 2020 and indoors 2021 within 12 months so it's hard to argue their settings are so far behind.
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scott_nz 10/2/2021 5:32pm
10/2/2021 5:32pm
Yamaha had not won the outdoors since 08 and the sx title since 09 , , kawi won the sx title last year and the mx title the year before. Hardly down the same lines , also they had not given up on their own team , then got it back going and then outsourced it again
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Jmicmoto13 10/2/2021 5:33pm
10/2/2021 5:33pm
I'll make a prediction. Kawasaki is gonna go on a championship dry spell for 5+ years, now that Eli is gone. I would love to be wrong, but I don't see Jason or Adam bringing an SX or MX title to the table. Kawasaki has dominated the last 20 years as a whole, but I think they are gonna have some tough times ahead championship wise. Just my opinion.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 10/2/2021 6:38pm
10/2/2021 6:38pm
scott_nz wrote:
Interesting to see ando running showas , it always seemed weird that teams wound run different Suspension brands between riders
I don't know that he's locked in to any set-up, yet.
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mxtech1
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mxtech1 10/2/2021 8:02pm
10/2/2021 8:02pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2021 5:42pm
I firmly believe that a factory team ran by a Japanese OEM is no longer the best way to go racing. STAR is showing how it can be done when everything is moved in-house and under their span of control. They can iterate faster, have less bureaucracy to deal with, and can hire talent outside of the “corporate pool.”

Ricky Gilmour of KYB even mentioned back in the Geico Honda days the Japanese Honda Engineers didn’t even understand how to interpret data from testing suspensions….that they were good engineers, but didn’t necessarily understand motorcycles/racing at that level. He said once they tested enough and he could get the engineers to understand the data in terms of how it was behaving on the track and what feedback the rider was saying, they turned a huge corner and really made some progress. Keep in mind these are the same engineers processing requests for factory race team parts.

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Lukass59
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Lukass59 10/2/2021 8:37pm
10/2/2021 8:37pm
I wonder how much Kawasaki gave Eli flake about using kyb?
I’d be really surprised if Kawi lets Anderson run kyb
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xrclark433
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xrclark433 10/3/2021 7:34am
10/3/2021 7:34am
TeamGreen wrote:
I don't know that he's locked in to any set-up, yet.
Considering how factory kawi is running Showa suspension only id say he’s pretty locked into showa.
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FWYT
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FWYT 10/3/2021 7:41am
10/3/2021 7:41am
BTW, what is Williamson up to these days?
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LungButter 10/3/2021 8:05am
10/3/2021 8:05am
TeamGreen wrote:
I don't know that he's locked in to any set-up, yet.
Adam hinted on Pulp awhile back that he would get his pick of KYB or Showa.

Ando will probably get whatever Adam doesn’t pick I would think.
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GrapeApe 10/3/2021 8:07am
10/3/2021 8:07am
According to ML512 - "The only other notable change is that the team will no longer be split between Showa and KYB, as both riders will utilize the services of Showa for 2022."
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Zycki11
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Zycki11 10/3/2021 8:41am
10/3/2021 8:41am
scott_nz wrote:
Interesting to see ando running showas , it always seemed weird that teams wound run different Suspension brands between riders
TeamGreen wrote:
I don't know that he's locked in to any set-up, yet.
With the team having KYB and Showa it does get interesting. I think AC made a comment about a possible switch to KYB now that Eli has left. He didn’t have the choice is what he was hinting at until now.
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Zycki11
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Zycki11 10/3/2021 8:43am
10/3/2021 8:43am
GrapeApe wrote:
According to ML512 - "[i]The only other notable change is that the team will no longer be split between Showa and KYB, as both riders will...
According to ML512 - "The only other notable change is that the team will no longer be split between Showa and KYB, as both riders will utilize the services of Showa for 2022."
Hmmm makes you wonder why Eli was able to run KYB. One would think they would do anything for AC
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 10/3/2021 9:02am
10/3/2021 9:02am
GrapeApe wrote:
According to ML512 - "[i]The only other notable change is that the team will no longer be split between Showa and KYB, as both riders will...
According to ML512 - "The only other notable change is that the team will no longer be split between Showa and KYB, as both riders will utilize the services of Showa for 2022."
Zycki11 wrote:
Hmmm makes you wonder why Eli was able to run KYB. One would think they would do anything for AC
Budget-wise, running two brands requires paying for two service providers. That's not how it's usually done these days. Then there's KTM/Husky/GasGas that run -just- their own brand, WP.

If Kawasaki does run two brands, that's an additional expense. Will they do it?
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Zycki11
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Zycki11 10/3/2021 9:54am
10/3/2021 9:54am Edited Date/Time 10/3/2021 10:41am
GrapeApe wrote:
According to ML512 - "[i]The only other notable change is that the team will no longer be split between Showa and KYB, as both riders will...
According to ML512 - "The only other notable change is that the team will no longer be split between Showa and KYB, as both riders will utilize the services of Showa for 2022."
Zycki11 wrote:
Hmmm makes you wonder why Eli was able to run KYB. One would think they would do anything for AC
TeamGreen wrote:
Budget-wise, running two brands requires paying for two service providers. That's not how it's usually done these days. Then there's KTM/Husky/GasGas that run -just- their own...
Budget-wise, running two brands requires paying for two service providers. That's not how it's usually done these days. Then there's KTM/Husky/GasGas that run -just- their own brand, WP.

If Kawasaki does run two brands, that's an additional expense. Will they do it?
By the sound of ML it doesn’t seem likely. Yet, AC on Pulp seemed to elude to the idea he may try the kayaba units.
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xrclark433
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xrclark433 10/3/2021 12:34pm
10/3/2021 12:34pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Budget-wise, running two brands requires paying for two service providers. That's not how it's usually done these days. Then there's KTM/Husky/GasGas that run -just- their own...
Budget-wise, running two brands requires paying for two service providers. That's not how it's usually done these days. Then there's KTM/Husky/GasGas that run -just- their own brand, WP.

If Kawasaki does run two brands, that's an additional expense. Will they do it?
No. They will not.
quadzrulebro 10/3/2021 1:39pm
10/3/2021 1:39pm
FWYT wrote:
BTW, what is Williamson up to these days?
Working for his father in law last I knew.
mxtech1
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mxtech1 10/3/2021 5:55pm
10/3/2021 5:55pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2021 5:57pm
GrapeApe wrote:
According to ML512 - "[i]The only other notable change is that the team will no longer be split between Showa and KYB, as both riders will...
According to ML512 - "The only other notable change is that the team will no longer be split between Showa and KYB, as both riders will utilize the services of Showa for 2022."
Zycki11 wrote:
Hmmm makes you wonder why Eli was able to run KYB. One would think they would do anything for AC
Tomac has been a KYB loyalist for years. I imagine Kawasaki was really pressing him to use Showa. I’ve always wondered if AC would have fewer front end pushing/washouts on KYB suspension if Kawi would let him try KYB. Tomac’s bike always looks like it rides a bit lower and tracks better in the front. Seems like Kawasaki has always forced AC to run Showa due to the corporate partnership and this goes clear back to his PC ride.

Tomac and Ricky Gilmour found some really good settings based on lots of testing and factory KYB parts back in his Geico Honda days. Tomac is supposedly still running some of that stuff on his KYB stuff today.

Going to STAR is a benefit for Tomac since they have Gilmour on staff full time.
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