Honda was right in 79'....

gt80rider
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gt80rider
Edited Date/Time 8/19/2021 4:49pm
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in decades.... when my mtb rolls over the smaller bumps like they don't even exist, and does so, quite noticeably better than any mx bike I own, I think we need to look into larger diameter wheels for mx...
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Broseph
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Broseph 8/16/2021 4:07pm
8/16/2021 4:07pm
gt80rider wrote:
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in...
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in decades.... when my mtb rolls over the smaller bumps like they don't even exist, and does so, quite noticeably better than any mx bike I own, I think we need to look into larger diameter wheels for mx...
Do you already run a 90/100-21 tire size up front?
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1911
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1911 8/16/2021 4:12pm
8/16/2021 4:12pm
I forgot about that 79 Honda. Never caught on.
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 8/16/2021 4:12pm
8/16/2021 4:12pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2021 4:13pm
gt80rider wrote:
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in...
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in decades.... when my mtb rolls over the smaller bumps like they don't even exist, and does so, quite noticeably better than any mx bike I own, I think we need to look into larger diameter wheels for mx...
That idea is so good and so far outside the box that everyone here will hate it. The theory is already proven by going from 18 inch to 19 inch rear wheels.
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Rawly
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Rawly 8/16/2021 4:54pm
8/16/2021 4:54pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2021 5:08pm
They have the same outer dimensions , so not proven yet. That 23” front tire was only used for one model year , and didn’t seem to work well. Interesting stuff though.
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Rupert X
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Rupert X 8/16/2021 4:57pm
8/16/2021 4:57pm
Always thought It would be a fascinating experiment -to ride a motocross bike with tires twice as wide as current normal size. Front and back.
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 8/16/2021 5:00pm
8/16/2021 5:00pm
Rupert X wrote:
Always thought It would be a fascinating experiment -to ride a motocross bike with tires twice as wide as current normal size. Front and back.
Just no. They turn slowly. Fat Cat and TW200.
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Nairb#70
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Nairb#70 8/16/2021 5:02pm
8/16/2021 5:02pm
I'm in the market for a new MTB after many years of no bike. I've been researching frame size and it's defonitely no longer just straddle the top tube intil the jewelz barely touch. Reminds me of the segment on Sexton's subframe being trimmed 5mm and making all the difference in the world for him.
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xrmark
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xrmark 8/16/2021 5:33pm
8/16/2021 5:33pm
Mullet is the way to go. 29 front and rear is awkward on anything other than XC. AM and DH the only way is mullet.
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JM485
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JM485 8/16/2021 6:20pm
8/16/2021 6:20pm
gt80rider wrote:
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in...
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in decades.... when my mtb rolls over the smaller bumps like they don't even exist, and does so, quite noticeably better than any mx bike I own, I think we need to look into larger diameter wheels for mx...
Johnny Depp wrote:
That idea is so good and so far outside the box that everyone here will hate it. The theory is already proven by going from 18...
That idea is so good and so far outside the box that everyone here will hate it. The theory is already proven by going from 18 inch to 19 inch rear wheels.
18” and 19” rear tires have the same outer diameter. . .
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 8/16/2021 6:36pm
8/16/2021 6:36pm
1911 wrote:
I forgot about that 79 Honda. Never caught on.
I don’t think that the 23” front was the main problem, it was not accounting for the change in geometry that sunk it.

Realistically they should have upped the rear wheel size also, but that wasn’t quite as easy to do as bolting on a big front wheel.

It may not have been a great idea, or it may have been fantastic. Honda had a few things during that era that were allegedly spectacular in the way that they functioned but that they never worked to really put into production (Ribi fork anyone?).
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 8/16/2021 6:37pm
8/16/2021 6:37pm
gt80rider wrote:
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in...
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in decades.... when my mtb rolls over the smaller bumps like they don't even exist, and does so, quite noticeably better than any mx bike I own, I think we need to look into larger diameter wheels for mx...
Johnny Depp wrote:
That idea is so good and so far outside the box that everyone here will hate it. The theory is already proven by going from 18...
That idea is so good and so far outside the box that everyone here will hate it. The theory is already proven by going from 18 inch to 19 inch rear wheels.
JM485 wrote:
18” and 19” rear tires have the same outer diameter. . .
Exactly, the 23” front that Honda had didn’t mimic the diameter of the 21.
lostboy819 8/16/2021 6:40pm
8/16/2021 6:40pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2021 6:43pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Exactly, the 23” front that Honda had didn’t mimic the diameter of the 21.
And only one other tire choice other than the "claw action" Honda tire didn't help.
Glad that they only put the 23 on the 125 and didn't put it on the 250 which was the best 250 in 1979
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FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 8/16/2021 6:51pm
8/16/2021 6:51pm
I think that 29er issue may be as hot as seat bouncing and planes on treadmills among the MTB crowd
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 8/16/2021 7:02pm
8/16/2021 7:02pm
gt80rider wrote:
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in...
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in decades.... when my mtb rolls over the smaller bumps like they don't even exist, and does so, quite noticeably better than any mx bike I own, I think we need to look into larger diameter wheels for mx...
Johnny Depp wrote:
That idea is so good and so far outside the box that everyone here will hate it. The theory is already proven by going from 18...
That idea is so good and so far outside the box that everyone here will hate it. The theory is already proven by going from 18 inch to 19 inch rear wheels.
JM485 wrote:
18” and 19” rear tires have the same outer diameter. . .
So did the ‘17’s. So did the 20’s vs 21’s. Since no one has designed a new bike from the ground up the larger diameters won’t fit. You would have to lose suspension travel. Some DIY person should try it, but sourcing tires and wheels would be near impossible unless someone ordered a batch.

https://motocrossactionmag.com/amp/ask-the-mxperts-ode-to-the-20-inch-w…
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USA 8/17/2021 7:07am
8/17/2021 7:07am
FreshTopEnd wrote:
I think that 29er issue may be as hot as seat bouncing and planes on treadmills among the MTB crowd
Haha plane on a conveyor belt. What a great thread, I wonder how it's doing nowadays..
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Braaaphole
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Braaaphole 8/17/2021 7:26am
8/17/2021 7:26am
gt80rider wrote:
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in...
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in decades.... when my mtb rolls over the smaller bumps like they don't even exist, and does so, quite noticeably better than any mx bike I own, I think we need to look into larger diameter wheels for mx...
Rolling over rocks and roots is not the same as cornering fast. I hate my 29er and want a new bike. The trails around here are tight and the 29er turns like a pig, I have seriously grown to hate it so much that I quit riding.
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Zoom
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Zoom 8/17/2021 7:59am
8/17/2021 7:59am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2021 8:00am
gt80rider wrote:
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in...
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in decades.... when my mtb rolls over the smaller bumps like they don't even exist, and does so, quite noticeably better than any mx bike I own, I think we need to look into larger diameter wheels for mx...
Braaaphole wrote:
Rolling over rocks and roots is not the same as cornering fast. I hate my 29er and want a new bike. The trails around here are...
Rolling over rocks and roots is not the same as cornering fast. I hate my 29er and want a new bike. The trails around here are tight and the 29er turns like a pig, I have seriously grown to hate it so much that I quit riding.
Definitely works great at Sugar Land, especially on Lung Buster. Cypress Creek with all the roots its a pretty good choice too. Wouldn't work as well in The Woodlands. Those are pretty tight.
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Press516
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Press516 8/17/2021 8:02am
8/17/2021 8:02am
Tire options was the number one drawback of the 23" tire. But the geometry was accounted for. In order to go back to the 21, you needed some serious fabrication work done, either a frame cut or custom triple clamps.

In '79 I had a Honda support ride and rode the 23" wheel through about mid year. At that point I got a 21" wheel and a set of triple clamps and that was a lot better. But like I told most everyone, I think the improvement was the Metzeler 21" tire.


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B Lenny
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B Lenny 8/17/2021 9:16am
8/17/2021 9:16am
Press516 wrote:
Tire options was the number one drawback of the 23" tire. But the geometry was accounted for. In order to go back to the 21, you...
Tire options was the number one drawback of the 23" tire. But the geometry was accounted for. In order to go back to the 21, you needed some serious fabrication work done, either a frame cut or custom triple clamps.

In '79 I had a Honda support ride and rode the 23" wheel through about mid year. At that point I got a 21" wheel and a set of triple clamps and that was a lot better. But like I told most everyone, I think the improvement was the Metzeler 21" tire.


Smile
DaveB771
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DaveB771 8/17/2021 9:18am
8/17/2021 9:18am
Honda was more right in 1980.
MetricHotrods 8/17/2021 9:22am
8/17/2021 9:22am
Rupert X wrote:
Always thought It would be a fascinating experiment -to ride a motocross bike with tires twice as wide as current normal size. Front and back.
Johnny Depp wrote:
Just no. They turn slowly. Fat Cat and TW200.
This Depp guy bites every time, without fail 🤣
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 8/17/2021 9:25am
8/17/2021 9:25am
Man, I'm a believer in larger diameter wheels after a few years in mtb... complete and huge improvement.... night and day... then I look at mx... where ryno can easly take a 30 yr old bike and spark a field of the latest generation of 450s.... we've let the manufacturers sit on their hands for far too long... we want improvement, we want our new bikes to be easier to ride, and faster, than those bikes made when Reagan was still in office... easy for then to keep doing bng yr after yr, but it is a disservice to those that made them millions, us, the good old consumer....
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Shredder
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Shredder 8/17/2021 9:45am
8/17/2021 9:45am
gt80rider wrote:
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in...
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in decades.... when my mtb rolls over the smaller bumps like they don't even exist, and does so, quite noticeably better than any mx bike I own, I think we need to look into larger diameter wheels for mx...
Braaaphole wrote:
Rolling over rocks and roots is not the same as cornering fast. I hate my 29er and want a new bike. The trails around here are...
Rolling over rocks and roots is not the same as cornering fast. I hate my 29er and want a new bike. The trails around here are tight and the 29er turns like a pig, I have seriously grown to hate it so much that I quit riding.
Used market is on fire right now for MTB much like moto is. Sell while you can.
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queen of spodes 8/17/2021 10:01am
8/17/2021 10:01am
I kinda loved the red engines from that era.


Suzuki was the last manufacturer to run colored engine cases in 1986-88.

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queen of spodes 8/17/2021 10:02am
8/17/2021 10:02am
gt80rider wrote:
Man, I'm a believer in larger diameter wheels after a few years in mtb... complete and huge improvement.... night and day... then I look at mx...
Man, I'm a believer in larger diameter wheels after a few years in mtb... complete and huge improvement.... night and day... then I look at mx... where ryno can easly take a 30 yr old bike and spark a field of the latest generation of 450s.... we've let the manufacturers sit on their hands for far too long... we want improvement, we want our new bikes to be easier to ride, and faster, than those bikes made when Reagan was still in office... easy for then to keep doing bng yr after yr, but it is a disservice to those that made them millions, us, the good old consumer....
Do you ride eMTB or analogue? I'm wondering how much more effort is needed to accelerate with 29s over traditional size rims.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 8/17/2021 10:12am
8/17/2021 10:12am
FreshTopEnd wrote:
I think that 29er issue may be as hot as seat bouncing and planes on treadmills among the MTB crowd
FTE can always get me to laugh
RichieW13
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RichieW13 8/17/2021 10:32am
8/17/2021 10:32am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2021 10:33am
gt80rider wrote:
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in...
After going from 26.5 to 27 to now a 29'er, big wheels work ridiculously well off road.... in moto, we haven't seen any new tech in decades.... when my mtb rolls over the smaller bumps like they don't even exist, and does so, quite noticeably better than any mx bike I own, I think we need to look into larger diameter wheels for mx...
About 15-20 years ago, some of the guys in the desert (maybe MX, too?) were running 20" wheels on the front. I can't remember what the supposed advantage was.
Press516
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Press516 8/17/2021 10:43am
8/17/2021 10:43am
queen of spodes wrote:
I kinda loved the red engines from that era. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/17/506071/s1200_img5795_1545068176960_2x.jpg[/img] Suzuki was the last manufacturer to run colored engine cases in 1986-88.
I kinda loved the red engines from that era.


Suzuki was the last manufacturer to run colored engine cases in 1986-88.

The '78 - '79 -'80 CR250's are nicknamed the Red Rockets... And for good reason, some of the best looking production bikes ever made. Your photo has the bars a bit jacked up, but that's a quick fix.

This is one of my favorites of all time.


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FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 8/17/2021 10:52am
8/17/2021 10:52am
Press516 wrote:
Tire options was the number one drawback of the 23" tire. But the geometry was accounted for. In order to go back to the 21, you...
Tire options was the number one drawback of the 23" tire. But the geometry was accounted for. In order to go back to the 21, you needed some serious fabrication work done, either a frame cut or custom triple clamps.

In '79 I had a Honda support ride and rode the 23" wheel through about mid year. At that point I got a 21" wheel and a set of triple clamps and that was a lot better. But like I told most everyone, I think the improvement was the Metzeler 21" tire.


Now you're giving me Newmann flashbacks; Joe did the frame mod on his 79 125 build cutting a bit out of the top tube to address the geometry change going to the 21 front.
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B Lenny
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B Lenny 8/17/2021 10:54am
8/17/2021 10:54am
queen of spodes wrote:
I kinda loved the red engines from that era. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/17/506071/s1200_img5795_1545068176960_2x.jpg[/img] Suzuki was the last manufacturer to run colored engine cases in 1986-88.
I kinda loved the red engines from that era.


Suzuki was the last manufacturer to run colored engine cases in 1986-88.

Wink
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