Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but Premium users receive great benefits. Premium benefits include:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2026 SX, MX, and SMX series.
Start with the kids.
Make awesome mini-bikes.
Build brand loyalty.
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Free shipping: VITALMX
So, electric? That can wait until the eventual forced mandates & the return of those pink shirts with the alligator logo (not that there’s anything wrong with that).
Until then…I’ll say this,”Steve McQueen didn’t jump over that fence on an Electric Triumph”. I mean, we are talking TRIUMPH!!!
Manny
Design should be true to itself, less the KYB suspension - the best in the business IMO.
http://www.asiawing.com/moto_detail/productId=43.html
You used to be able to take a 540 Ktm out to 612 with boring and stroking it, now the cases are that thin, and the cylinder to cases interface is so small, that all you can do is get it out to 500 and i dont know if that uses the same cases or not.
If they do that , its junk from day one.
1) Fuel injected 2 stroke. Why? A bunch of reasons. First, these are incredibly popular do-everything bikes. While the carb die hards will argue against it citing cost, weight & performance I say this change is inevitable. (look at every other ICE). Be smart with how you engineer it, look to snowmobile technology if need be.
2) Dial the geometry off of the best handling bikes on the market. This isn't 8th grade. Copying to a large extent is allowed. Don't be different just for the sake of being different.
3) I agree on the green coloring schemes (Aston Martin green).
4) I'm in the minority, but I actually would use WP, but I'd do one thing different. XACT air forks up front with a low cost spring conversion. Why? Because a lot of riders don't spend any money on anything to do with suspension out of the box, this includes swapping springs. Being able to dial in the right spring rate using air is going to be a performance advantage for a lot of customers. Before you say it, yes, the 2022 WP stuff is actually very good. From an architecture perspective, the damper is killer and the air spring far more modern than those first takes (real negative spring for instance).
5) Make it easy to work on. Think about your home mechanic when it comes to things like plastics, air filters, fuel filters, oil changes etc.
6) Put appropriate tires on each model. Nobody I know ever runs the KTM tires that come on their off road bikes. Why not do what other brands do and offer the bike with a tire package that people actually like?
7) Let the other guys tell you what is working for brakes & clutch (use Magura or Brembo here). Yes, hydraulic is a must.
8) Adjustable pegs would be killer. I hate the fact the KTMs are not adjustable. Small adjustments here to better fit tall riders would be awesome.
9) Any two stroke package needs to be properly counterbalanced or you won't have a shot. The rin tin tin my hands are vibrating so bad I can't hold on days are over.
That's it for now...
Triumph couple pull it off & as PhilG The Brit said, it needs to be a dedicated engine design.
Performance, cost & reliability should all come before the smell of race gas and "girls in bikinis". The proverbial "girls" go for guys who have two of the three latter values (performance and reliability).
If I can get on an e-moto and have more fun, be faster and have a bike I work on less - all at the cost of an ICE bike (or even a bit more) sign me up.
I know, I know "I'm missing the point". Maybe. But it feels a lot like the same rhetoric I've seen a bazillion times before in every other mechanized sport.
Don't fight change because it'll make the way things were obsolete. Embrace what may come, both on the bike and off. Its the only option, after all. Change is inevitable. (don't be like garth).
in the first year parts will be most likely only available through their dealers- so they see what parts are failing and get a direct feedback what needs to be adressed to make their bikes better.
Suspension wise it doesnt matter whos suspension they get as long as their bikes have enough usable horsepower not to be dead last in a shootout. Suspension can always be made better, engine perfomance on a 4 stroke will be an expensive task.
as they are british i would say they are using DEP, Talon, Renthal parts on their bikes.
Lets hope they get a good bike in their first year without major problems (just remember the first years kawasuki kxfrmz250 or the cannondale disaster...)
Pit Row
I’d start with a close copy of the newest gen. 21 Honda & put some British green plastics..
Allow for "options" ala Beta/TM.
Utilize common chassis from the 4T line.
Make it a "stand alone" look body-work-wise (Polished Al. thank...for example)
Probably need to stick to a CR/KX type engine lay-out...or a modern counter-balanced motor that still needs to "look classic"...4/5/6 speed options
Ohilins suspension.
Don’t re-invent the wheel engine wise, solid Mx engine with e-start and 2 maps is all it needs.
I don't think they gonna invest 100M+ in r&d, tooling, inventory management etc just to have specific bikes on a niche market that may end up working and selling less well, plus using a proven and reliable platform would keep the marketing cost down a lot.
I think the goal is to build a lot of synergies from an alliance, ktm get more access to their road experience and market, while triumph expand smoothly off road, and why not win a dakar and some sx, motogp and mxgp. The key is to have very high level people dedicated to making the alliance works.
So, if I were given a blank sheet of paper with no restrictions other than to design and build a bike that'll beat the best currently available at a reasonable price (let’s say $15k US) I'd look at current and future vehicle technology and base it on that.
Right now, suspension technology has kinda stalled out. There's definitely a limit handling wise to the amount of travel and that's probably a done deal. Telescopic forks have managed to survive over some pretty exotic and innovative engineering over the years so that's done as well. Spring and damping technology is where the battle will be won in the next 10 years. Electromagnetics and the associated fluids along with look forward/predictive technology/sensors will soon find its way into moto so that's where I'd start my R&D.
Rear suspension has historically been where most of the innovation and creativity has taken place. However, it's pretty much narrowed to the same linkage systems we've seen for many years. In addition to applying the same spring/damping advancements mentioned above, I'd do some out of the box thinking regarding the entire design. Discarding/re-inventing dependence on the ancient chain drive would free up all sorts of new opportunities.
Any ICE depends on volumetric efficiency (forced induction aside) and therefore has limitations with respect to max power, torque and the way the torque is generated. Exotic fuels could increase max power/torque, but the shape of the powerband would stay essentially the same. Again, the state of the technology is very mature with only incremental gains being made. However, even though they been with us seemingly forever, we're just starting to scratch the surface with small scale (under 100hp) electric motor technology, particularly permanent magnet AC motors (PMAC). There's just not been any demand, so it's been a slow go R&D wise. But with EVs becoming more and more commonplace, this situation is changing fast. I'd start an R&D effort with the goal of designing a low voltage (96v) motor the size of a small coffee can, about 12lbs, capable of 50hp and 125 ft/lbs, 8000 rpm corner point, water cooled. A very doable goal. With the proper magnetic material, one could use an appropriately timed pulse of current to alter the magnetic field strength and therefore change the back EMF characteristics so that field weakening, a necessary but inefficient evil to gain motor rpm, isn’t required. A variable geometry rotor, somewhat similar to a variable geometry turbo, could provide the benefits of both surface mount and imbedded magnet rotors into one. Again, gaining efficiency at low speeds and power at higher speeds. There are so many more improvements that could be investigated, I just mentioned a few.
Of course, a motor needs a battery for power. My initial goal would be a pack capable of supporting the above motor power for 20 minutes at pro level on a national caliber MX track on a hot day. Now, unless you are in the battery cell design and manufacturing business (Sony, Panasonic, LG, Samsung, etc) its’ almost impossible to do your own in-house R&D. For similar reason the bike companies don’t have a petrochemical department making their race gas, the chemistry, resources and technology required for battery cell design and manufacturing are simply cost prohibitive in anything but a laboratory setting. So, as a designer I’d be limited by what’s commercially available. And right now (literally this very minute) commercial battery cell technology isn’t going to be viable. Just too big, too heavy, not enough capacity, and overheating/safety issues. Yes, some can be made to work today with limitations (water cooled, shorter motos, hardpack track, lower power levels, cooler days, etc) but those are some of the reasons people don’t want to deal with electric. However, there are several promising new cell designs already proven in the laboratory which are just now entering the manufacturing/production viability/development phase. These new cells, and the many others in labs all over the world, are slated for commercial release within the next couple years and “on paper” should solve many/most of the issues we have today. I’d enter into a collaborative effort with one of the above companies and help steer the technology and manufacturing towards my goals. It’s gonna happen regardless, so best to be a partner in the development. How the cells are interconnected has huge potential and literally is still in the infant stage of development. Having a pack that could electronically switch in microseconds between different voltages, current capacity, amp hours, even chemistries, would open up so many possibilities. This kind of R&D could be done in house.
Controllers/inverters are another area where great innovation and improvements can be made. Both in the firmware and hardware. This technology is certainly within the realm of OEM development. I’d again partner with a company like Texas Instruments to augment their already potent array of “on chip” FOC processors (something an OEM can’t do) and develop the corresponding circuitry and software similar to what Alta motors did. Lighter, smaller, able to handle more power, and the ability for the end user to tailor every aspect of engine performance would be the goals. Even some of the current stuff meant for forklifts, elevators and industrial processes works amazingly well already. Think about what a few years of focused development would bring.
Frames are so rider dependent I highly doubt any single design would make everyone happy. In this case I’d stick with steel chassis as it’s easier to make changes without significant non-recurring costs and production setbacks. I’d shoot for geometry and mass properties somewhere between a KTM and a Yamaha.
Just a few of my thoughts on the subject . . . . .
Post a reply to: You're the designer of Triumph, with a clean sheet of paper. What do you do?